I am shocked and appalled and dangerously close to hating Free Speech (Page 4): Yes, and my bad for not including those others. You are right. It goes both ways.

Winona Whyner Loc: aspen, co

Blade_Runner wrote:

Let's put some perspective on this. Have you, by chance, seen any of the r****t comments, insults and invectives that the b****s on this forum have posted? I won't name them, but there are plenty here.

Yes, and my bad for not including those others. You are right. It goes both ways.

Winona Whyner Loc: aspen, co

peter11937 wrote:

And the great and wonderful FDR was not? https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fdr-refused-to-act-to-save-jews/2015/12/09/0aa71148-9203-11e5-befa-99ceebcbb272_story.html?utm_term=.890816e79339

Woodrow Wilson as well. Eisenhower also. But what does that mean here and now? We cannot do anything about their h**e or prejudice. How to come to terms with r****m by whomever and however and maintain respect for the 1st Amendment is a tricky business. At times, it could be taken as looking to incite a r**t. Yet by whose perception?

Winona Whyner Loc: aspen, co

America Only wrote:

Check the stats? Like you do not see what is reported regarding the rape and murder of US Citizens, INCLUDING children by your so praised and loved Muslim refugees? Loss of memory so SELECTIVE...another reason why you are such a scum bag and HYPOCRITE !!!!!

I stated in that blog that I definitely understand the need to use insult, yet what does it accomplish? Does it change anything for the better? Or maybe for the worst? Reasonable arguments and verifiable facts go a lot further. Not the whole nine yards but far closer than just insult. A few are entrenched and will never soften for wh**ever reason. Yet many more are reachable by civility and respect. You may take your approach as thoroughly righteous and needed, and so some on the other side. Taking a breath, you both may be able to show cause. Still nothing changes if we fail to open our hearts and minds to really listen.

Winona Whyner Loc: aspen, co

Quakerwidow wrote:

My advice: don't feed trolls. Skim past their stupid remarks and hope you don't miss the (very few) good nuggets they sometimes contribute. They CAN be polite and talk sense, but most of the time they seem to be in a 7-year-old -male peeing contest.

Thank you. New territory. I am under perhaps the delusion that all can be reasoned with and consensus reached...as all our many wars and conflicts and crimes and feuds duly do not attest to. Rodney King thinking: "Why can't we all just get along." It bugs me.

Winona Whyner Loc: aspen, co

PeterS wrote:

Well they are two of the biggest conservative trolls on this board. There only purpose is to spew filth and h**e. If they are too much for you put them on Ignore. I mean you will never get an intelligent argument from them so they are both a giant waste of time...

(Did you get my two apologies?) Can't do ignore, even if its the wise choice. I worked for a few years in a residential treatment center for adolescents. We would have these weekly meetings where we were to "f**g" clients, "yellow" meaning, essentially, a waste of time and resources. Be cautious and suspicious. Do not hesitate to call security if they "act up." How many young lives may have been permanently damaged by our distant diagnostic approach? Very painful to think I was a willing participant. Sort of came to "leave no human behind."

Winona Whyner Loc: aspen, co

saltwind78 wrote:

Winona, I too h**e the kind of r****t remarks I read on this sight. There is nothing that you can do about it. If people want to be r****t, that is their right. Remember, if the government can restrict their speech, they can regulate ours!

Exactly, good point. That is why I concluded banning them is wrong. As you said, we all lose with over-reacting. Who knows what the next
"h**e speech" may be? Prayer?

Winona Whyner Loc: aspen, co

Big Bass wrote:

Hmmmm. You are obviously a R****T! You have only s... (show quote)

You are correct. I admitted this early. My failure to list evidence of Black r****m was wrong. And you are correct that I acted "holier-than-thou" in my comments. "Very r****t, don't you think?" Yes.

theotts

JW wrote:

There is blatant r****m coming from both sides on this site. I suggested upon my arrival here that perhaps I had come to the wrong place and openly mused about leaving. I'll share with you what I was told at the time. Stay here and add weight to the rational side of the debates.

It seems to me the right have done their all to make themselves immune to reason. They are the fruit of years of sowing distrust in the media (ie making lies their stock in trade) and contempt for ordinary civility.
We need a voice of righteous anger, not a voice of reason. We need to call Trump and his minions exactly what they are; the barbarians at the gate.

Winona Whyner Loc: aspen, co

eagleye13 wrote:

Foul language on both sides does not enlighten anyone.
So we weed through it.
The t***h matters; has to be sought after, and then shared.
That is what will turn America around.

Excellent. That is it: the t***h has to be sought always, no matter where it may lead. Never quite verbalized what I was feeling but I agree: t***h will turn America around. Thank you.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

theotts wrote:

It seems to me the right have done their all to make themselves immune to reason. They are the fruit of years of sowing distrust in the media (ie making lies their stock in trade) and contempt for ordinary civility.
We need a voice of righteous anger, not a voice of reason. We need to call Trump and his minions exactly what they are; the barbarians at the gate.

"We need to call Trump and his minions exactly what they are; the barbarians at the gate."

Theo! My little black Tea Pot!

Winona Whyner Loc: aspen, co

Quakerwidow wrote:

I had four younger brothers, a younger step-brothe... (show quote)

I tend toward the Anabaptist thinking, very selectively, however. Yet you have a friend.

theotts

eagleye13 wrote:

"We need to call Trump and his minions exactly what they are; the barbarians at the gate."

Theo! My little black Tea Pot!

I should have known. The reiver.
Go beat up a little kid or something else that better suits you.

Winona Whyner Loc: aspen, co

theotts wrote:

It seems to me the right have done their all to make themselves immune to reason. They are the fruit of years of sowing distrust in the media (ie making lies their stock in trade) and contempt for ordinary civility.
We need a voice of righteous anger, not a voice of reason. We need to call Trump and his minions exactly what they are; the barbarians at the gate.

I am not sure. We are so severely divided now getting more entrenched does not appear a solution, however tempting. It seems the more Trump and his administration is attacked by the Media for their apparent duplicity, the stronger his support. "F**e news," the lamestream press," "puppets of socialist czar Soros." Any negative reporting of Trump or his administration is proof positive to many on the Right that t***h and the American way are under direct threat by the "c****es." Which is strange, because there seems to be this proclivity on the Right to treat Russia as a friend. (How did that happen?)

From what I read, mostly by one member here, Trump and his minions are far worse than "barbarians at the gate": they are "opportunistic scum." Each a Trojan Horse within our gates. Working for their own interests and their friends in the 1%. Maybe. But from I read, we do not need to call "Trump and his minions" anything: all that is needed to end this is to publish his tax returns. Maybe.

theotts

Winona Whyner wrote:

I am not sure. We are so severely divided now gett... (show quote)

Trump himself concerns me less than his supporters. Even supposing he stumbles and is drummed out of office, his supporters will have their backs up, leading to support for yet another demagogue, possibly even worse. Trump is a narcissist with moral blinders on, but he isn't smart enough to be insidious, scheming, or, god forfend, Hitlerian. It is the "basket of deplorables" who threaten democracy.

Winona Whyner Loc: aspen, co

theotts wrote:

Trump himself concerns me less than his supporters. Even supposing he stumbles and is drummed out of office, his supporters will have their backs up, leading to support for yet another demagogue, possibly even worse. Trump is a narcissist with moral blinders on, but he isn't smart enough to be insidious, scheming, or, god forfend, Hitlerian. It is the "basket of deplorables" who threaten democracy.

Most of the people I know--family, friends, and acquaintances--v**ed for Trump. Good and decent people. Almost all went into the polling booth with gritted teeth, a garlic necklace, and fingers crossed. They were not v****g for Trump but against what they saw as an erosion of American values and the threat to our way of life. The alternative, Hillary or Sanders (mostly Hillary), felt like a DNR ("do not resuscitate" order) for this nation.

Hope to reverse what they saw as a downward trend in the principles, culture, and ideals of this country, Trump was for most the reluctant choice. I know of no one that actually admired him or even liked him. The "basket of deplorables" you mention are those nearest and dearest to me. Again, all good and decent people who I have known since a child. I love them. They are not r****ts or autocrats or part of the oligarchy. They do not fear or h**e Mexicans and Muslims and immigrants (oh, my). They simply love this Republic. They want it preserved forever, not just for the next generation. They saw Hillary as a direct threat to all they hold sacred, but did not see The Donald as representative of all they hold as sacred.

It is not easy to give up hope or to possibly face the ruin of something you hold dear. It is not Trump they support (though there are what can be rightfully called "deplorables" that do). They are holdouts for a change in the trajectory in the course of this nation out of respect and honor for what it stands for. They are to be praised, not demonized.