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Dec 19, 2013 10:11:03   #
RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC
 
alex wrote:
I have been back and forth across this country several times and the only place I have found in any state that wasn't beautiful is the large cities


I agree with that, too!

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Dec 19, 2013 21:30:36   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
RetNavyCWO wrote:
Interesting article. Thanks for posting the link.

Even though I reside in Virginia and didn't need to take it (because VA has a c*****rjack box approval process), I took the Utah-approved CCW class taught by the NRA over a year ago so that I could get both Virginia's and Utah's permits, which, when added together, cover something like 40 states. I ended up not submitting my application to Utah because Virginia's permit covers 32 states, including all the states in which I am most likely to travel during the next 5 years. Maybe I'll get one then (if it's still available).
Interesting article. Thanks for posting the link.... (show quote)


Since 1993, the number of concealed carry permit holders, along with the number of firearms owners, has literally exploded. The murder rate, however, is down by fifty percent. Contrary to the doomsayers, there are only half as many murders now as 20 years ago, in spite of the increase in carry, ownership, and the increase in population in general. So much for gun control. Nineteen of the last 20 mass shootings that the media salivates over occurred in so called "gun free zones." That one really worked out well.

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Dec 20, 2013 08:45:25   #
RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC
 
banjojack wrote:
Since 1993, the number of concealed carry permit holders, along with the number of firearms owners, has literally exploded. The murder rate, however, is down by fifty percent. Contrary to the doomsayers, there are only half as many murders now as 20 years ago, in spite of the increase in carry, ownership, and the increase in population in general. So much for gun control. Nineteen of the last 20 mass shootings that the media salivates over occurred in so called "gun free zones." That one really worked out well.
Since 1993, the number of concealed carry permit h... (show quote)


I don't disagree with the stats, banjo, but I'm not so sure there is a correlation to "gun free zones." I don't think deploying several armed guards at every school is the right answer, either, or even arming teachers. We have seen how lone guards are easily taken out, and teachers cannot be expected to be Rambo. The answer must be in stopping the perpetrators before they ever get there.

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Dec 20, 2013 10:41:05   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
RetNavyCWO wrote:
I don't disagree with the stats, banjo, but I'm not so sure there is a correlation to "gun free zones." I don't think deploying several armed guards at every school is the right answer, either, or even arming teachers. We have seen how lone guards are easily taken out, and teachers cannot be expected to be Rambo. The answer must be in stopping the perpetrators before they ever get there.


I have given stats for the entire country. These are FBI, not something I made up. Speaking personally, in my state there has been a precipitous decline in violent crime since concealed carry became commonplace. This is spite of an increase in population.

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Dec 20, 2013 11:24:07   #
vernon
 
OldSchool wrote:
Yeah, I have CCWs from Utah, Nevada, and Florida. Utah CCW is not recognized in Nevada, and since I am moving to Utah in the spring, I got a Utah CCW. Florida's CCW was included in the training program, which gives me a couple more states. I am currently developing a 20 acre off-grid property in Utah, and it will be ready for move-in in early spring. My son will be retiring from the police force in three years, and is building on the property too. We're not into the prepper scene, but we are going to be self-sufficient.
Yeah, I have CCWs from Utah, Nevada, and Florida. ... (show quote)


you are lucky to get that much property and have water on it.

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Dec 20, 2013 16:38:27   #
RetNavyCWO Loc: VA suburb of DC
 
banjojack wrote:
I have given stats for the entire country. These are FBI, not something I made up. Speaking personally, in my state there has been a precipitous decline in violent crime since concealed carry became commonplace. This is spite of an increase in population.


You might be right that increased CCW has contributed to decreased crime in some areas of the country in recent years. I recall expecting there to be an increase in crime after the economy went down the tubes in 2008 and have been pleasantly surprised that crime across the country has actually gone down a bit. I doubt that it is all because of increased CCW, though.

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Dec 20, 2013 17:59:58   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
RetNavyCWO wrote:
You might be right that increased CCW has contributed to decreased crime in some areas of the country in recent years. I recall expecting there to be an increase in crime after the economy went down the tubes in 2008 and have been pleasantly surprised that crime across the country has actually gone down a bit. I doubt that it is all because of increased CCW, though.


I have a couple of friends who are active duty officers. They both attribute a good bit of the decrease to concealed carry. You see, here in GA, if you have a permit, you can carry openly, also, although most choose not to. My last visit to WalMart, I noticed 3 people carrying sort of half concealed, other than myself. I see people carrying openly at the supermarket. There are others who carry concealed that I know are armed. One of my LE friends commented that our county has an unusually high number of carry permits "even for GA." Over 400,000 permits issued, and only a small fraction of one percent are ever convicted of a gun crime. A VERY small fraction, like less than 200 out of more than 400,000. I'm sure there are other reasons, but this is one that I am sure of. The economy is pretty depressed here, so it cannot be "good times."

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Dec 20, 2013 18:13:43   #
Constitutional libertarian Loc: St Croix National Scenic River Way
 
OldSchool wrote:
There are plenty of pine and Juniper trees on the property. The property is at 5800 feet elevation, but it is absolutely beautiful up there. We have a well for water, a septic system, and a 4kw 15-panel solar array (with back up 14kw generator) for power.

Yeah, you're an east coaster, and I'm a west coaster. I did one two year tour on the East Coast, six months in Groton CT and 18 months on a nuclear sub out of Charleston. When I made CWO, I told the detailer "I don't care what you put me on, just get me back on the west coast." Since I was picked up on a surface designator (not many CWOs in the sub service), I got a cruiser out of San Diego. Too much humidity and too many bugs on the east coast for me - they had bugs in Charleston I don't believe have even been classified yet.
There are plenty of pine and Juniper trees on the ... (show quote)


I have skied from one end of the country to the other and Utah really does have the greatest snow on earth. Back bowl at snow bird now that's heaven !

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