Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

You were told this by who? The people you have faith in, right?

There is no natural explanation for the universe, time, matter, and space creating themselves from nothingness.

Man's existence, by definition, is supernatural.

PeterS

I don't necessarily have faith in Merriam Websters dictionary but I do believe their definition is fairly spot on. As for the person who originally explained irrationalism it was a Priest--I started college at a Catholic University and he explained the difference between faith and reason and how if one is seeking god you will never find him through rationalism but only in the world of the irrational--that world that has no natural explanation and requires blind faith to believe in. And mans existence is well explained through evolution so no, man isn't part of the supernatural, but very much the natural world. Nice try though, glad to see you are staying on top of things...

Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

He's welcome to his opinion, and you're welcome to have blind faith in him.

PeterS

If you believe the definition of words are opinions that is certainly your opinion. Enjoy...

gaconservative74

Evolution, m theory, and all things, however do require an explanation as to their origin.

To make my point, the link you posted about m theory was indeed very interesting, unprovable, but very interesting, but even with the tunneling and the virtual something popping into existence from nothing (this is about as technical as I can deal with in my brain) that nothing needs to be defined. A vacuum is far from nothing- energy, quarks, strings etc. all exist in a vacuum. When I hear the word nothing I think of it the way frank turek puts it, "nothing is what rocks dream about". There has to be an explanation of where it started. Even with m theory it is only a potential infinite. Alex vilinken admits that there "has to be a beginning.

PeterS

Each universe has it's own beginning and even it's own end. The multiverse though has always existed and always will. That's the theory, sound familiar! And you keep saying it's unprovable, I don't think it is. Gravitational waves are the long sought after proof for Cosmic Inflation and with that it pretty much seals the fate for a multiverse instead of a single event universe. We also need to understand that cosmic inflation theory and string theory are less than 40 years old. To say that what they propose is unprovable in such a short amount of time is a bit premature as research has just begun in these fields...

gaconservative74

In the multiverse theory, when each new universe is pinched off from the old one it is conceded that it is impossible to ever see into the old one or any other one for that matter, and that is why I say it is not provable. I will say, however, at this point I will concede to the multiverse, but as stated before, it is widely accepted that there was a beginning even to the multiverse, which as I said before, anything that begins to exist has a cause. So my question is, what has caused this multiverse?

I interject here, that many say that science and religion are polar opposites and I have to say that this is just not reality. I applaud the work of science, but science can never answer the question of what is the point.

Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA

Conclusions are not definitions.

PeterS

The multiverse has no beginning and has no end. As for science and religion--one is based on reason and the other is based on faith. If you see a way of connecting the two, I don't. And I don't understand why there needs to be a point. A point imply's purpose and I see life as something that simply is. Man is made up of nothing but star dust so with the vastness of the universe I don't see it as surprising that life could emerge. If man is wise he won't destroy his home, at least not until he learns how to escape it and travel the stars. If man doesn't commit suicide I think that is his "purpose" to travel the stars and become infinite thru generational evolution not the hand of a god...

PeterS

And what was the conclusion....

gaconservative74

I have to ask a question that seems obvious to me, you say that science is based on reason, well, especially with the multiverse, that can't be proven, isn't there a bit of faith there as well? But anyway, kind of pointless to continue down that road.
But I think you need to look at religion from a different perspective, it is looking at the world from a philosophical view. It is trying to understand the why of things with logical reasoning.

I have to say this, I cannot not do I want to argue the science. What I do argue is the logic of the plausibility of God. I believe it is absolutely plausible..... Let me say it like this.

Everything that exists has an explanation of its existence, either it is necessary or it is contingent.

The explanation of the existence of the universe is God.

The universe exists.

You can't argue that the universe exists because it does. So you have to argue that the universe exists inexplicably or give an alternate explanation of its existence other than God. Do you see the logic?

Now this is only the start of my argument, but what I see as an end to this is that, logically you have to say that God is at least a plausible logical argument to the existence of the universe/multiverse.

gaconservative74

And to add to this argument, there had to be a beginning at some point, because you can't get anything from nothing, and to say that there is no beginning is to say that something came from nothing. I am, as I said about nothing, saying, absolutely nothing, not the nothingness of a vacuum, which in fact, is not nothing. so the conclusion is that you have to say that the multiverse/universe exists necessarily of its own nature, but them logically, why don't other things exist necessarily? Like I said, at this point it's about the plausibility of a being that exists necessarily that started the whole thing, and it seems to me that it is a plausible argument.

gaconservative74

And then I will move on to the argument of fine tuning of the universe. As I have said, I am not a scientist, but the way the universe is, lends itself that there is some very precise fine tuning that has occurred that has to be explained.

susanblange Loc: USA

God is Energy and it has always existed. It is omnipotent, omnipresent, and everlasting. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change form. Our sun is the source of Energy for the Universe. The Universe itself is eternal and in the beginning God created its contents. Modern man was created in the image of God and that was about 6000 years ago. God is the Lord's husband and they are one flesh. Genesis 2:24. "...in them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun. Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber..." Psalm 19:4-5. "For thy Maker is thine husband...For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God". Isaiah 54:5-6.

fredlott63

For those that don't believe in God, I think that God has better reasons not to believe in them. They were born after 1900. They will probably be dead in less than 100 years. If you look at this universe it is an obvious intelligent design. An intelligent design requires an intelligent designer. I can make brownies. You look like a fool asking me about the orgin of my brownies