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Jesus did talk about homosexuality
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Jun 10, 2015 09:22:18   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
Artemis wrote:
Facts beget ethics, please expound.


We are entitled as American citizens to be treated by "law" not with biased bizarro religious beliefs. We are (as statistics bear out) a nation of Christians...not a Christian nation.

When I go to court, which is supposedly an unbiased decision making body, I don't want to hear that the reason I don't have a right is that: God, Zeus, Vishnu, or Ra doesn't think it's appropriate. I don't consult any of the aforementioned God's for any other decisions in my life, so why would I expect the court to make a decision based some silly myth. Most of the laws that are recognized by the church, to some extent appear on the books, but are usually consulted for a divorce such as adultery. If any of the laws that are books are even remotely related to a Christian, then I say let them be tried by law...most of the them would go to church for apostasy. Let the cleansing begin.

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Jun 12, 2015 03:17:08   #
fiatlux
 
no propaganda please wrote:
From BARB Wire

Homosexuals activists are fond of arguing that Jesus never spoke a word against homosexuality.

They are wrong.

For starters, Jesus condemned the sin of “sexual immorality,” which is the English translation of the Greek word “porneia.” (Our word “pornography” is derived from this word.) The Louw-Nida Greek-English Lexicon tells us that the meaning of this term is not restricted to what we quaintly call “fornication” but instead refers to “sexual sin of a general kind, that includes many different behaviors.”

For instance, in Mark 7:21, Jesus says, “For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,” etc.

The word translated “sexual immorality” (porneiai) here is in the plural in Greek, illustrating what the lexicons tell us, that it porneia is a generic word for sex outside the bounds of natural marriage, whatever form it may take.

Paul, for instance, uses porneia to condemn an incestuous relationship in 1 Corinthians 5:1.

In its earliest and original sense, porneia referred specifically to prostitution, of both the female and male kind. Thus from the beginning, even before being expanded in range, it was a term that included illicit sex whether of the heterosexual or homosexual kind.

Demosthenes, for example, used porneia to refer to homosexuality centuries before Christ.

Other literary products of Judaism (e.g., the Testament of Benjamin, Testament of Levi, Testament of Naphtali, and Jubilees) during the period between the Testaments (from 400 BC to the time of Christ) also use porneia to refer to the sin of sodomy

Jude uses the verb form of porneia quite explicitly to refer to homosexuality when he connects the word to the behavior of Sodom and Gomorrah. “…[J]ust as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire…” (Jude 7).

So porneia, while it can be used in a narrower sense to refer to fornication, when used in a general sense it refers to every kind of illicit sexual intercourse, every kind of sexual intercourse outside the marriage relationship between one man and one woman. Homosexuality is included.

So when Jesus condemned “sexual immorality,” and “porneia” is the word used in the biblical text, he was condemning every form of sex outside marriage, including that of the homosexual variety.

Further, and just as importantly, Jesus himself also spoke directly against homosexuality through his apostles.

Paul was the most direct, unambiguous and explicit in condemning homosexual behavior, in places such as Romans 1:26-27 (“dishonorable, contrary to nature, shameless”), 1 Corinthians 6:9 (a sin that will keep one out of the kingdom of God, just like cheating in business), and 1 Timothy 1:10 (behavior that is the proper subject of the law, just like murder and the slave trade).

But, folks will argue, these are the words of Paul, not Christ. This, however, begs the question. Where did Paul get this teaching? Where did he get his message? Who taught him the things he preserved in writing in his epistles?

He tells us quite directly in Galatians 1:11-12. “For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”

Paul goes on to make it clear that he could not have learned his gospel from the early apostles such as Peter since he only saw Peter once for about two weeks, three years after his conversion, and then didn’t see any of the other apostles at all for another 14 years.

No, Paul’s gospel – his message about Christ, God and the spiritual life – is a message he received directly from Jesus himself.

An apostle of Jesus Christ was quite literally “one sent” by Jesus Christ. He was someone selected, authorized, commissioned, and sent on assignment by Christ himself. Thus when Paul speaks as an apostle, Christ is speaking through him. He is speaking with not only the authority of Christ but with the very words of Christ.

Paul as an apostle was serving almost precisely in the role of an ambassador. An ambassador does not represent himself; he represents the one who sent him. And when the one who sent him gives him a message to deliver, he delivers that message faithfully in exact detail.

An ambassador is not a freelancer who thinks and speaks for himself. He is there to faithfully speak on behalf of the one who appointed him, to represent his interests, and to deliver his message.

Bottom line: Jesus rejected homosexuality in words that came from his own lips and with words he spoke through Paul, his chosen ambassador. We may not like what Paul said about homosexuality, but let’s drop the nonsense that he wasn’t speaking for Christ when he said it.

(Unless otherwise noted, the opinions expressed are the author’s and do not necessarily reflect the views of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.)
From BARB Wire br br Homosexuals activists are fo... (show quote)


With equal fervor bankers, the gluttonous (the rotund on TVevanglist shows), adulterers (including those married after divorce), and a long list of sinners and sins: why the obsession with gays?

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Jun 12, 2015 08:12:18   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
fiatlux wrote:
With equal fervor bankers, the gluttonous (the rotund on TVevanglist shows), adulterers (including those married after divorce), and a long list of sinners and sins: why the obsession with gays?


Why in indeed. His brother was molested and ruined his brother's life.

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Jun 12, 2015 09:39:20   #
no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun
 
fiatlux wrote:
With equal fervor bankers, the gluttonous (the rotund on TVevanglist shows), adulterers (including those married after divorce), and a long list of sinners and sins: why the obsession with gays?


The obsession with those sins that cause the most damage to society is a concern for the society as a whole. A fat person is harming his own health, eating lots of chocolate, as an example earlier, causes zits but does not disrupt the function of family life. The real reason for the "obsession" with deviant sexual behavior, in my opinion, is that those who participate in it demand that we not only tolerate it, but validate and celebrate it, and tell everyone that it is NOT A SIN but a glorious state of being. We have to condone parades which expose all sorts of deviant behavior to everyone in a celebratory way. Keep your whips, chains and anal intercourse in your bedrooms, and we could well enough ignore it. Instead we are forced to be happy and honor your behavior and may well be arrested if we dare say anything against it or you who flaunt it.

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Jun 12, 2015 13:24:13   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
no propaganda please wrote:
those who participate in it demand that we not only tolerate it, but validate and celebrate it, and tell everyone that it is NOT A SIN but a glorious state of being. We have to condone parades which expose all sorts of deviant behavior to everyone in a celebratory way. Keep your whips, chains and anal intercourse in your bedrooms, and we could well enough ignore it. Instead we are forced to be happy and honor your behavior and may well be arrested if we dare say anything against it or you who flaunt it.
those who participate in it demand that we not onl... (show quote)


I don't spend hours on the internet, or attending homosexual events to even know if they exist, why do you? I would assume that the number of gay events in your area as well as my own are most non-existent, but they do: don't go so you don't have to celebrate with them.

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Jun 13, 2015 23:45:49   #
dennisimoto Loc: Washington State (West)
 
fiatlux wrote:
With equal fervor bankers, the gluttonous (the rotund on TVevanglist shows), adulterers (including those married after divorce), and a long list of sinners and sins: why the obsession with gays?


"He tells us quite directly in Galatians 1:11-12. “For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”" (from fiatlux' statement above)

The Prophet Mohammad says the Koran was dictated to him through the Angel Gabriel. The reason Islamists hold it in such high regard is that they consider every word in it to be God's exact words. Does the Koran and the Christian Bible translate directly to each other? How about the Jewish Torah? If not, we might have to consider several Gods working out there.

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Jun 14, 2015 02:30:40   #
fiatlux
 
no propaganda please wrote:
From BARB Wire

Homosexuals activists are fond of arguing that Jesus never spoke a word against homosexuality.

They are wrong.

For starters, Jesus condemned the sin of “sexual immorality,” which is the English translation of the Greek word “porneia.” (Our word “pornography” is derived from this word.) The Louw-Nida Greek-English Lexicon tells us that the meaning of this term is not restricted to what we quaintly call “fornication” but instead refers to “sexual sin of a general kind, that includes many different behaviors.”

For instance, in Mark 7:21, Jesus says, “For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,” etc.

The word translated “sexual immorality” (porneiai) here is in the plural in Greek, illustrating what the lexicons tell us, that it porneia is a generic word for sex outside the bounds of natural marriage, whatever form it may take.

Paul, for instance, uses porneia to condemn an incestuous relationship in 1 Corinthians 5:1.

In its earliest and original sense, porneia referred specifically to prostitution, of both the female and male kind. Thus from the beginning, even before being expanded in range, it was a term that included illicit sex whether of the heterosexual or homosexual kind.

Demosthenes, for example, used porneia to refer to homosexuality centuries before Christ.

Other literary products of Judaism (e.g., the Testament of Benjamin, Testament of Levi, Testament of Naphtali, and Jubilees) during the period between the Testaments (from 400 BC to the time of Christ) also use porneia to refer to the sin of sodomy

Jude uses the verb form of porneia quite explicitly to refer to homosexuality when he connects the word to the behavior of Sodom and Gomorrah. “…[J]ust as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire…” (Jude 7).

So porneia, while it can be used in a narrower sense to refer to fornication, when used in a general sense it refers to every kind of illicit sexual intercourse, every kind of sexual intercourse outside the marriage relationship between one man and one woman. Homosexuality is included.

So when Jesus condemned “sexual immorality,” and “porneia” is the word used in the biblical text, he was condemning every form of sex outside marriage, including that of the homosexual variety.

Further, and just as importantly, Jesus himself also spoke directly against homosexuality through his apostles.

Paul was the most direct, unambiguous and explicit in condemning homosexual behavior, in places such as Romans 1:26-27 (“dishonorable, contrary to nature, shameless”), 1 Corinthians 6:9 (a sin that will keep one out of the kingdom of God, just like cheating in business), and 1 Timothy 1:10 (behavior that is the proper subject of the law, just like murder and the slave trade).

But, folks will argue, these are the words of Paul, not Christ. This, however, begs the question. Where did Paul get this teaching? Where did he get his message? Who taught him the things he preserved in writing in his epistles?

He tells us quite directly in Galatians 1:11-12. “For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”

Paul goes on to make it clear that he could not have learned his gospel from the early apostles such as Peter since he only saw Peter once for about two weeks, three years after his conversion, and then didn’t see any of the other apostles at all for another 14 years.

No, Paul’s gospel – his message about Christ, God and the spiritual life – is a message he received directly from Jesus himself.

An apostle of Jesus Christ was quite literally “one sent” by Jesus Christ. He was someone selected, authorized, commissioned, and sent on assignment by Christ himself. Thus when Paul speaks as an apostle, Christ is speaking through him. He is speaking with not only the authority of Christ but with the very words of Christ.

Paul as an apostle was serving almost precisely in the role of an ambassador. An ambassador does not represent himself; he represents the one who sent him. And when the one who sent him gives him a message to deliver, he delivers that message faithfully in exact detail.

An ambassador is not a freelancer who thinks and speaks for himself. He is there to faithfully speak on behalf of the one who appointed him, to represent his interests, and to deliver his message.

Bottom line: Jesus rejected homosexuality in words that came from his own lips and with words he spoke through Paul, his chosen ambassador. We may not like what Paul said about homosexuality, but let’s drop the nonsense that he wasn’t speaking for Christ when he said it.

(Unless otherwise noted, the opinions expressed are the author’s and do not necessarily reflect the views of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.)
From BARB Wire br br Homosexuals activists are fo... (show quote)


"Jesus did talk about homosexuality"...and obesity, and Bankers, and adulterers, and cynics, and worriers, and divorcees, and so many others who sinned but are not condemned. We are not judging; we are loving. No possible mistake in keeping the two greatest commandments, is there?

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