Jerry A. Loc: California

I agree with you, for many years we had politicians that was conservatives or progressives, but now we have a majority of politicians in both political parties that are elected with the torrent of money they received from the special interest to hurt the poor and feed the rich only, creating the economic catastrophe we have now.

Sons of Liberty Loc: look behind you!

:thumbup: :thumbup:

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

Fortunately, the center is where it's always been. The problem is, both the left and right have tried to hijack the center, by using such terms as " slightly left of center ", or "center right" and other slick word smithing. By doing this and the center remaining virtually silent, it has lead people to believe that the "center" moves around depending on the political climate.

Too many folk claim to be in the "center", who are anything but "center". Both the left and right have tried to shift the extremes further out, thus making it SEEM like they are more to the "center", but it's an illusion. The easiest way to tell ( for me ), is where a particular stance compares to 100 years ago. Social changes that makes sense, such as equal rights, are still "centered", complying with the intent of the Constitution.

Anytime a platform is justified by using legal-speak or politi-speak, I tend to reject it out of hand, as the Constitution was written for you and me - not a bunch of lawyers. If it requires a law degree to understand what the hell they're talking about, you can be sure it's far from center. Center is a whole lot of common sense and looks at the bigger picture. Anything the Government does, should benefit the MOST people possible, not just a few "special cases". Anytime they single people/groups out, they have effectively un-united those folk. For instance, doing something that benefits Veterans, benefits EVERYBODY, because Veterans are someone's husband, wife, father, mother, son or daughter. Doing something that benefits a particular business, such as Wall Street banks, is NOT a valid "centrist" action, because it does nothing for ALL businesses and benefits only a few. Reducing corporate taxes for small businesses, benefits EVERYBODY, as it reduces costs for consumers, creates more jobs and small business owners are someone's father, mother, son or daughter - who WORK for a living.

the waker Loc: 11th freest nation

"Divided we fall"

Jerry A. Loc: California

The U.S. problems wasn't created by the right, left, or center politicians, was created by the corruption in our U.S. Congress, our U.S. Supreme Court, and the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank printing daily f**e U.S. $$$ dollars paper to paid for the Federal debts, and the torrent of $$$ dollars money Corporations and the special interest spent in our political process seeking to evade and invalidate democratically-enacted reforms to repair the damage done to our country.

Ve'hoe

Agreed,,, but it isnt happening,, due to bureacracy but another crucial consideration must also be taken into perspective,,,, a definitive moral code, wherein actions are integral (meaning in line with and conforming to) with words and intent.

By way of example,,, many libs here spew bible verses,, "Jesus said, as ye do to the least of these ye do unto me".... rationalizing higher taxes for welfare/govt programs. Yet the same liberals excoriated the religions,,, and reilgious as terrorists, murderers, and i***ts,,,, and do not adhere to any of the religious tenets themselves either...... just something to wield as a weapon against someone else.

Govt programs then weaken the moral integrity by providing an "easy way out" the net result is a decay of the intended recipients moral situation, and then a decay in their environment.. perfect example is welfare...

Another is the Indian Treaties, and reservation systems and agreements that congress changes at whim,,, and at last,,, the VA,,, that though I had no ability to refuse my direction from a l*****t or a rightist POTUS,,,, the bureacracy is in effect robbing me of the promise,,,,,, and no one, not in govt or the bureacracy itself,,, cares enough to do the necessary job to fix it.

The end result, which I have warned many of here, is we will all fall,,,, the "conservative" is an object of scorn, insulted as a r****t, homophobe, and evil white man, uncle tom, or "apple" indian,,,, wanting to cling to gun and bible,,, while resisting the wailing whining left passionately bent on "change" in the rules, laws, and structure of society, they neither took the time to read and understand, nor the integrity to live within, in the first place...

This leads to a concern/fear/contention of mine, that we may have reached the societal apogee, with respect to the moral and ethical effort people are willing to excude.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

True and unfortunately, it's become the new normal. Everyone is willing for sacrifices to be made to fix things - as long as THEY are not asked to sacrifice anything. It's the same phenomenon where folks ask for more prisons to be built, to keep their families safe, except, not near THEIR homes.

More people can quote scriptures that condone what they do and condemn what you do, than can quote from the Constitution. Everyone can prove why they are right and you are wrong and have no desire to seek commonality. The word "compromise" has been redefined to mean "betrayal" and forces the left and right to stay as far from each other as possible - in defiance of stated goals or intent.

I have mentioned before, how that the definitions of the philosophies of "liberal" and "conservative" have been rewritten in later years. Whereas they were once methods of viewing HOW to achieve the common good, they are now the "reason for existence" for many folks way of life. Those on the opposite side, try to change the definitions again, in the minds of the public. There are now numerous "types" of conservatives and liberals, each believing that their views for living one's life are the only true way. I do find it interesting to note, that many of them actually mean ways for YOU to live your life - and don't feel obligated to do so themselves. The rest believe that the way they live their life, is the way everyone should.

We once were united in our belief that "all men were created equal", but are now separated into factions that have differing views of what that means. I find it sad to say, that what I have found is that folks are more concerned about THEIR perceived rights and are willing to infringe on others rights if necessary. That's why there are a plethora of laws protecting this groups rights and then that groups rights for hundreds of pages - signifying that some folks rights are different than others - instead of all being equal under the law.

The bewildering number and type of rules and regulations that everyone is required to conform to, make it virtually impossible for everyone to successfully comply. That leaves the average person at the mercy of the particular bureaucracy responsible for it's particular oversight. We have become s***es to the bureaucrat, so much so, that not even the Congress has a clear understanding of the bureaucracies they oversee. The Constitution is a simple document, easy to understand, yet Government operatives have seen fit to complicate it's execution, beyond all comprehension.

Ve'hoe

I disagree on one point, and it is based on 55 years of observation in all climes, all societies, war, peace, civil conflict, college and common folk experience...


What our liberal vs conservative conversation has devolved to is:

Liberals: We want to work together and compromise,,, but we want YOU to actually compromise your values, your finances, and your freedoms,,, based on what we believe and we reject any of your beliefs, religious doctrine, or morality...

Conservatives: Compromise starts with what "YOU" are willing to give,, not what you desire to forcefully take from others... start compromising your values and demands before we compromise on another damned thing.....

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Well, it has been my 66 years of experience under similar circumstances that each side's version of compromise has been primarily dictated by the level of majority they have in government...or not. Rarely has either, with a clear majority, shown a proclivity for much compromise. IMO, both have shown little magnanimity in matters of political significance. Neither has a righteous edge.

Ve'hoe

Nor does the left occupy the "military crest of the moral highground" as it pretends to.

There comes a point, in all relationships, where you decide whether the demands of the partnership are worth the liabilities and or the benefits,,,, when that fulcrum point is reached,, we tip.


What exactly has the left c*********d on (?????) other than they havent achieved "absolute control and chaos?"

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

To your first statement: no, it doesn't, nor does the right. :wink: I believe I wrote earlier neither has a 'righteous edge'.

No argument on your second statement, and perhaps rightly, both sides view things that way.

Lastly, to your question, I will point out the most obvious. In 1993, both the Heritage Foundation and Senator John Chaffee (R) R.I., offered alternatives to the Clinton's ill-fated health care plan. If the Clintons had accepted those versions, we would probably never have faced the prospect of 'ObamaCare'. Most likely, they refused because of ego and partisan stubbornness. Imagine that! In fact, The Heritage Foundation's version was approved by Newt Gingrich and used, basically, by Mitt Romney in Massachusetts. The Clintons turned both Chaffee's and The Heritage Foundation's offerings for what, IMHO, was purely personal and partisan reasons...they wanted their own version of health care. I remember this all well as I was already in my mid 40's by then, and had a vested interest in the health and welfare of my family.

The ACA, in large part, followed both those plans, but since President Obama had put his name on it, the GOP rejected all of it. Imagine that! In the end, much of the final ACA plan was strikingly similar to the 1993 GOP & Heritage Foundation's plan, plus...Senator Chuck Grassly's (R) Iowa, proposals for nursing home t***sparency appeared almost verbatim in the ACA's language. IMO, both parties bear some fault for what many perceive as a flawed health care plan. But, much of the current ACA was a compromise to the GOP's original proposals for health care in the early to mid-90s. It has been written, because of that, President Obama had thought that the plan would sell with the GOP. But they, like the Clintons, refused to cooperate with any proposal that carried the other party's name on it, wh**ever its roots.

Now, please reciprocate by stating some major compromise(s) from the GOP to programs presented by this administration. After all, they were dead set on holding him to one term. Their poll numbers suggest they are as big a reason as any for him being elected to a second term.

lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

Well said! :thumbup: It reminds me of how my Mom handled my Dad, all those years. Knowing that he would reject any suggestion she made, she would subtly make "hints" for a while - until it became HIS idea - then applaud his brilliance.

The difference here is, when the "other side" decides that a previously tendered idea is now THEIR idea, the originators still want the credit and applause - or they pout - like 3 year olds.

That gives me an idea. What we need in a President, is an experienced Grandpa - who is well seasoned at dealing with 2 and 3 year olds - THEY would be able to keep the peace in the Congress - and actually get them to do their chores. 8-)

Ve'hoe

The GOP,,, c*********d on the budget resolutions,,, all of them,, including the one that obama and reid shut down the government over.

A mere 3 weeks ago, Boehner and McConnell approved funding for DHS for the rest of the year…

Chief justice John Roberts, purportedly a GOP pick, and conservative,,,, folded, and then wrote the law to call the ACA a tax,,,, making it legal…

The “Crominbus” bill fold,,,last december,,,


In the past,, off the top of my head,


Bush seniors,,, compromise on New taxes…..

Don’t ask,,, don’t tell

NAFTA

Need I go on????

Now I would appreciate you telling me why you insist on putting me in the GOP????

Ve'hoe

I think you need to print this out, and eat your words like the three year old, you were just being........

There are answers, and there are definite problems with compromising with snotty little sh-t like you,,, who doesnt have the maturity to handle back and forth....

When pressed,, you throw a fit,,, and stomp off,,,,then like a vulture hope someone else will do your dirty work,,,,
but when grown ups do disagree, they dont have to be petulant like you just were...

Here is a lesson from a Grandpa,,, pooky,,,, if you werent so caustic about winning or losing, you would find people more open to discussion with you,,, but as we have learned,,, your little ego, MUST win,,, or you stay mad...

That isnt compromise,,, and there is no compromise with a person who acts like you... that was my point, we have tried, and nothing satisfies, the juvenile side of you.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

First, I must admit to thinking you were speaking to only compromises during President Obama's Administration. My apologies. And respectfully, all the budget bills, the DHS and the 'cromnibus' bill were, arguably, forced political compromises. Alternatives were highly detrimental, in the opinion of many, to the continuing operation of the nation's government...true or false. I also suggest that a majority in the country blamed the GOP for the previous year's governmental shutdown...again, true or false. But, your response was reasonable and only asked in reciprocation for your earlier question of me. Thank you.

My primary point as to the ACA compromises put forth by President Obama's team was that they were not really forced since the democrats had the v**es necessary without the GOP. I submit that when they rejected the original bill presented, this administration went with more of their own ideas as opposed to many earlier GOP ones. As promised by the GOP, not one v**e came from their camp in the final v**e for the ACA. IMO, if they had accepted the original bill presented, or something closer to it, we might have all been better off.

Respectfully, even though many in the GOP are considered 'rinos', it still represents the majority standard for traditional conservative values. I do understand the distaste of many 'true' conservatives in the Tea Party or others affiliated with the GOP. But, until another party is formed that better represents them, the GOP still carries the most widely accepted conservative banner. I certainly meant no disrespect towards you or any others who wish to disassociate themselves from the 'Grand Old Party', i.e., the Republican Party. Again, I apologize.

My mind is now drifting more and more towards the Kentucky/West Virginia NCAA Tournament game. :wink: