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Feb 15, 2015 09:00:34   #
PeterS
 
Trooper745 wrote:
Yes, we should give i******s drivers licenses, .... and while we're at it, ... give roofies and KY jelly to rapists, .... guns to murderers, .... hell, let's just make all of the illegal activities easier and more profitable.

Murderers already have guns and rapists have all the roofies they need. KY jelly on the other hand comes in handy and should be given freely and liberally to everyone!

Reply
Feb 15, 2015 09:14:12   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
PeterS wrote:
If you cut of aid and trade to Mexico you would only force more illegal's to come to this country. A better strategy would be to increase trade and economic assistance creating more and better jobs in Mexico so fewer illegal's coming here for economic reasons.


Really? How has NAFTA benefited US, Canadian, and worst of all Meixcan workers.

NAFTA's birth was bi-partisan -- conceived by Ronald Reagan, negotiated by George Bush I, and pushed through the US Congress by Bill Clinton in alliance with Congressional Republicans and corporate lobbyists.

Clinton and his collaborators promised that the deal would bring "good-paying American jobs," a rising trade surplus with Mexico, and a dramatic reduction in i*****l i*********n. Instead, NAFTA directly cost the U.S. a net loss of 700,000 jobs. The surplus with Mexico turned into a chronic deficit. And the economic dislocation in Mexico increased the the flow of undocumented workers into the U.S.

Nevertheless, Clinton and his Republican successor, George Bush II, then used the NAFTA template to design the World Trade Organization, more than a dozen bilateral trade treaties, and the deal that opened the American market to China -- which alone has cost the U.S. another net 2.7 million jobs. The result has been 20 years of relentless outsourcing of jobs and technology.

By any measure, NAFTA and its sequels has been a major contributor to the rising ine******y of incomes and wealth that Barack Obama bemoans in his speeches. Yet today -- channeling Reagan, the Bushes and Clinton -- the president proposes two more such trade deals: the T***s-Pacific Partnership with eleven Pacific Rim countries and a free trade agreement with Europe.

Like his predecessors, he repeats the mantra that more such trade deals will create "millions of American jobs" because we excel at high technology. But today the U.S. surplus in hi-tech industries has turned into a deficit -- including a deficit with China. In the global trade system initiated by NAFTA, any job that can be done with a computer can be out-sourced, unless American workers are willing to work at the wages of Mexico, India or China.

That trade system has not delivered the promised benefits because it was designed not to. The agreements traded away the interests of American workers in favor of the interests of American corporations eager to produce for the U.S. market in countries where labor is cheap, environment and public health regulations weak, and governments easily bribable. NAFTA's fundamental purpose was not to free trade, it was to free multinational corporations from public regulation in the U.S., Mexico, Canada, and eventually all over the world.

Among other things, NAFTA granted corporations extraordinary legal protections against national labor and environmental laws that that they could claim threatened future profits. At the same time, workers and unions were denied the legal status needed to defend themselves in these new cross-border jurisdictions.

As a result, the bargaining positions of U.S. workers -- union and non-union -- were severely undercut. As soon as NAFTA became law, corporate managers began using the threat to move elsewhere in order to force U.S. workers to work longer and harder for less. Threatening employees with outsourcing is now standard practice in American business.

It is not just workers in export and import industries who have suffered. Labor markets are connected. When autoworkers and steelworkers are hired for $14 instead of $20 an hour, lower wages ripple into the paychecks of those who work for suppliers, construction contractors, restaurants, and retail stores.

Both U.S. and Mexican farmers, under pressure from giant American agribusinesses, are struggling to survive as a result of NAFTA.

Family farmers in both the U.S. and Mexico are suffering needlessly because of this agricultural crisis.

Nor is it just American workers who have taken the hit. Historically high Canadian wages also have been undercut. In Mexico, although some new jobs are created when production is shifted south of the border, the lack of worker protections in NAFTA insured that corporate investors would reap most of the benefits. The gap between U.S. and Mexican wages remains as wide as it was twenty years ago. In the even poorer countries, unregulated global trade has led to the ruthless exploitation of labor -- from teenagers in the sweat shops of Bangladesh to eight year olds working in the gold mines of Tanzania.

Promoters of NAFTA-style globalization paint the opposition as "protectionists." This is demagoguery. The issue is not trade with other nations. It is trade policies. For 200 years US trade policies balanced imports and exports, and the interests of workers and investors. Job losses in one sector were matched by job gains in others. So if a company replaced workers with machines, the increased profits were re-invested in other parts of the domestic economy.

But after NAFTA, companies were encouraged to re-invest -- and create the new jobs -- overseas. As a result, the more trade expands, the more jobs are outsourced.

Reply
Feb 15, 2015 10:30:49   #
PeterS
 
buffalo wrote:
Really? How has NAFTA benefited US, Canadian, and worst of all Meixcan workers.

NAFTA's birth was bi-partisan -- conceived by Ronald Reagan, negotiated by George Bush I, and pushed through the US Congress by Bill Clinton in alliance with Congressional Republicans and corporate lobbyists.

Clinton and his collaborators promised that the deal would bring "good-paying American jobs," a rising trade surplus with Mexico, and a dramatic reduction in i*****l i*********n. Instead, NAFTA directly cost the U.S. a net loss of 700,000 jobs. The surplus with Mexico turned into a chronic deficit. And the economic dislocation in Mexico increased the the flow of undocumented workers into the U.S.

Nevertheless, Clinton and his Republican successor, George Bush II, then used the NAFTA template to design the World Trade Organization, more than a dozen bilateral trade treaties, and the deal that opened the American market to China -- which alone has cost the U.S. another net 2.7 million jobs. The result has been 20 years of relentless outsourcing of jobs and technology.

By any measure, NAFTA and its sequels has been a major contributor to the rising ine******y of incomes and wealth that Barack Obama bemoans in his speeches. Yet today -- channeling Reagan, the Bushes and Clinton -- the president proposes two more such trade deals: the T***s-Pacific Partnership with eleven Pacific Rim countries and a free trade agreement with Europe.

Like his predecessors, he repeats the mantra that more such trade deals will create "millions of American jobs" because we excel at high technology. But today the U.S. surplus in hi-tech industries has turned into a deficit -- including a deficit with China. In the global trade system initiated by NAFTA, any job that can be done with a computer can be out-sourced, unless American workers are willing to work at the wages of Mexico, India or China.

That trade system has not delivered the promised benefits because it was designed not to. The agreements traded away the interests of American workers in favor of the interests of American corporations eager to produce for the U.S. market in countries where labor is cheap, environment and public health regulations weak, and governments easily bribable. NAFTA's fundamental purpose was not to free trade, it was to free multinational corporations from public regulation in the U.S., Mexico, Canada, and eventually all over the world.

Among other things, NAFTA granted corporations extraordinary legal protections against national labor and environmental laws that that they could claim threatened future profits. At the same time, workers and unions were denied the legal status needed to defend themselves in these new cross-border jurisdictions.

As a result, the bargaining positions of U.S. workers -- union and non-union -- were severely undercut. As soon as NAFTA became law, corporate managers began using the threat to move elsewhere in order to force U.S. workers to work longer and harder for less. Threatening employees with outsourcing is now standard practice in American business.

It is not just workers in export and import industries who have suffered. Labor markets are connected. When autoworkers and steelworkers are hired for $14 instead of $20 an hour, lower wages ripple into the paychecks of those who work for suppliers, construction contractors, restaurants, and retail stores.

Both U.S. and Mexican farmers, under pressure from giant American agribusinesses, are struggling to survive as a result of NAFTA.

Family farmers in both the U.S. and Mexico are suffering needlessly because of this agricultural crisis.

Nor is it just American workers who have taken the hit. Historically high Canadian wages also have been undercut. In Mexico, although some new jobs are created when production is shifted south of the border, the lack of worker protections in NAFTA insured that corporate investors would reap most of the benefits. The gap between U.S. and Mexican wages remains as wide as it was twenty years ago. In the even poorer countries, unregulated global trade has led to the ruthless exploitation of labor -- from teenagers in the sweat shops of Bangladesh to eight year olds working in the gold mines of Tanzania.

Promoters of NAFTA-style globalization paint the opposition as "protectionists." This is demagoguery. The issue is not trade with other nations. It is trade policies. For 200 years US trade policies balanced imports and exports, and the interests of workers and investors. Job losses in one sector were matched by job gains in others. So if a company replaced workers with machines, the increased profits were re-invested in other parts of the domestic economy.

But after NAFTA, companies were encouraged to re-invest -- and create the new jobs -- overseas. As a result, the more trade expands, the more jobs are outsourced.
Really? How has NAFTA benefited US, Canadian, and ... (show quote)

Goodness, the vast majority of the good paying jobs were union jobs which we h**e because they are socialistic and force business owners to pay at a rate that people don't deserve. It's ridiculous to think that people have a right to earn a wage that will support them and their families simply because their productivity makes their owners the wealthiest people in the world. This is also why we should end the minimum wage because everyone should be paid what they are worth, ie the wealthy are worth the most so get the most and everyone gets to fight over the leftovers. That's the American way. When unions steal money from the wealthy via high wages, benefits, retirement, and reasonable hours we haven't earned that's socialism--redistribution of wealth--and to be resisted with every ounce of strength we have. When we send those evil jobs else where we purify the soul of our economic system and in return we get a lot of cheap s**t--misfit clothes, electronics that fail as soon as they are plugged in, meat that's been pumped full of nitrogen so we don't know if it is 3 days old or 3 years old, and other great crap that provides cheap jobs for our minorities, misfits (white trash), and others too old to find work elsewhere. It's a great system that returns to the wealthy that which is rightfully theirs (our money) and returns to us that which is rightfully ours (nothing).

This is America. The wealthy deserve what they have--and even more--because they provide the capital that pays for our jobs. They are to be worshiped and in return they give use what we need. Shutting down high wage c*******t factories hasn't taken jobs form Americans--they've given us cheap crap and sales associates in return. That's America at it's best! Everything else is C****e Socialistic Islamic Marxism and the most evil vile thing on earth!!! Boo Hiss Hissss Booooo!!!!

Reply
 
 
Feb 15, 2015 12:20:15   #
maintenanceman Loc: Texas
 
Forkbassman wrote:
Here's a thought: the world h**es us and in the last 6 years has been laughing at us. Much of the world had been fighting for centuries. We spend billions and billions of dollars plus thousands of lives trying to help them and the world still h**es us. Therefore, why not bring EVERY SOLDIER home now and place them on our borders to protect US from ISIS and keep i******s out?


Do I hear Ron Paul in this post?

Reply
Feb 15, 2015 12:53:14   #
PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.
 
PeterS wrote:
If you cut of aid and trade to Mexico you would only force more illegal's to come to this country. A better strategy would be to increase trade and economic assistance creating more and better jobs in Mexico so fewer illegal's coming here for economic reasons.


That has already been accomplished. Many American companies have built factories in Mexica employing thousands of Mexicans. Everything from clothing to automobiles. And yet, they still flock to the U.S.

Reply
Feb 15, 2015 12:55:29   #
chuckybrass
 
PeterS wrote:
Goodness, the vast majority of the good paying jobs were union jobs which we h**e because they are socialistic and force business owners to pay at a rate that people don't deserve. It's ridiculous to think that people have a right to earn a wage that will support them and their families simply because their productivity makes their owners the wealthiest people in the world. This is also why we should end the minimum wage because everyone should be paid what they are worth, ie the wealthy are worth the most so get the most and everyone gets to fight over the leftovers. That's the American way. When unions steal money from the wealthy via high wages, benefits, retirement, and reasonable hours we haven't earned that's socialism--redistribution of wealth--and to be resisted with every ounce of strength we have. When we send those evil jobs else where we purify the soul of our economic system and in return we get a lot of cheap s**t--misfit clothes, electronics that fail as soon as they are plugged in, meat that's been pumped full of nitrogen so we don't know if it is 3 days old or 3 years old, and other great crap that provides cheap jobs for our minorities, misfits (white trash), and others too old to find work elsewhere. It's a great system that returns to the wealthy that which is rightfully theirs (our money) and returns to us that which is rightfully ours (nothing).

This is America. The wealthy deserve what they have--and even more--because they provide the capital that pays for our jobs. They are to be worshiped and in return they give use what we need. Shutting down high wage c*******t factories hasn't taken jobs form Americans--they've given us cheap crap and sales associates in return. That's America at it's best! Everything else is C****e Socialistic Islamic Marxism and the most evil vile thing on earth!!! Boo Hiss Hissss Booooo!!!!
Goodness, the vast majority of the good paying job... (show quote)


The alternative is for people to open their own business, that way they could keep all of the supposed ethereal millions for themselves. (Still waiting to meet one of those!)

Reply
Feb 15, 2015 13:06:11   #
PeterS
 
PoppaGringo wrote:
That has already been accomplished. Many American companies have built factories in Mexica employing thousands of Mexicans. Everything from clothing to automobiles. And yet, they still flock to the U.S.

Think what it would be without that development. You can support yourself on $5.00 an hour there. Most who are coming here from other parts of S America which is why it is important to keep development coming. The more jobs they can find that will support them the less people will be coming into our country illegally to find them!

Reply
 
 
Feb 15, 2015 13:12:16   #
chuckybrass
 
PeterS wrote:
Think what it would be without that development. You can support yourself on $5.00 an hour there. Most who are coming here from other parts of S America which is why it is important to keep development coming. The more jobs they can find that will support them the less people will be coming into our country illegally to find them!


I'm sure a lot of people in Detroit appreciate it greatly!

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Feb 15, 2015 13:24:10   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
PoppaGringo wrote:
That has already been accomplished. Many American companies have built factories in Mexica employing thousands of Mexicans. Everything from clothing to automobiles. And yet, they still flock to the U.S.


Those were maquiladoras and were started in the early 1960s but exploded in the 1990s after the passage of NAFTA. They

Reply
Feb 15, 2015 13:24:10   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
PoppaGringo wrote:
That has already been accomplished. Many American companies have built factories in Mexica employing thousands of Mexicans. Everything from clothing to automobiles. And yet, they still flock to the U.S.


Those were maquiladoras and were started in the early 1960s but exploded in the 1990s after the passage of NAFTA. They

Reply
Feb 15, 2015 13:24:12   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
PoppaGringo wrote:
That has already been accomplished. Many American companies have built factories in Mexica employing thousands of Mexicans. Everything from clothing to automobiles. And yet, they still flock to the U.S.


Those were maquiladoras and were started in the early 1960s but exploded in the 1990s after the passage of NAFTA. They

Reply
 
 
Feb 15, 2015 13:24:12   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
PoppaGringo wrote:
That has already been accomplished. Many American companies have built factories in Mexica employing thousands of Mexicans. Everything from clothing to automobiles. And yet, they still flock to the U.S.


Those were maquiladoras and were started in the early 1960s but exploded in the 1990s after the passage of NAFTA. They

Reply
Feb 15, 2015 13:45:13   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
PoppaGringo wrote:
That has already been accomplished. Many American companies have built factories in Mexica employing thousands of Mexicans. Everything from clothing to automobiles. And yet, they still flock to the U.S.


Those were maquiladoras and were started in the early 1960s but exploded in the 1990s after the passage of NAFTA. I used to go to a dentist in Acuna. I got a 9 tooth bridge for $800US in 2000 that an Americian dentist wanted $4000 for. Could get a tooth extracted and cleaning for $20US. After one session with Dr. Flores, I was in a bar that I frequented, owned by Manuel Gutierrez. I got to talking to the young bartender who was very fluent in English. He had worked in Motorola's maquiladora and said his pay was roughly 450 pesos/week. That was equivalent to $38US/week when the exchange rate was 12 pesos to a dollar, now it is somewhere below 6.5 pesos. He said he had even been to California and worked but could make more money working as a bartender with tips to support his young wife and baby and be with them. Needless to say I tipped him well every time I went there. Since then the maquiladoras have all closed and corporations have moved them to east Asia for even cheaper labor.

If, as some know nothing i***ts want, the border between Mexico and the US were completely closed, then EVERY US town along the border would suffer huge economic losses from the money spent by Mexicans that cross the border everyday and shop. One can go to WalMart in Del Rio and half the cars there have Mexico license plates. The economies of all Texas border towns depends on Mexicans coming here to shop.

Sorry for the multiple postings, I don't know what happened.

Reply
Feb 15, 2015 13:52:22   #
PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.
 
buffalo wrote:
Those were maquiladoras and were started in the early 1960s but exploded in the 1990s after the passage of NAFTA. They


Thank you. I couldn't think of the word 'maquiladoras' when posting, consequently used the terminology 'factories' even though it is the same.

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Feb 15, 2015 13:54:02   #
PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.
 
buffalo wrote:
...

Sorry for the multiple postings, I don't know what happened.


It happens. Sometimes the key sticks or the computer may be slow and we click multiple times.

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