Israel is a fair weather friend (Page 3): And why was that ?

son of witless

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

You mean where the Russians withdrew?

And why was that ?

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

son of witless wrote:

Okay I will concede your point that this year's dr... (show quote)

The draft is very unpopular in Russia..Although there are lots of ways to get out of it...
It serves to keep unemployed young men from becoming an issue...

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

son of witless wrote:

And why was that ?

Part of the negotiations...

And the Ukraine is already saying that they are using the "withdrawal" to reposition their troops...

son of witless

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

The draft is very unpopular in Russia..Although there are lots of ways to get out of it...
It serves to keep unemployed young men from becoming an issue...

During the American Civil War particularly in New York City, you could buy your way out of the draft for $ 300 or $ 6 or 7 grand today or by hiring a substitute. They had draft r**ts in that city. Plus, considering how far north NY City is, that city had a lot of reasons to be sympathetic to the Confederacy. Among them was the money made by NY City merchants in the cotton business.

I would imagine if you have money in Russia, you don't end up in the army. It is not a good career path for anyone. The training and equipment is inferior. In the US at various times in our history, starting your working life in the military to get vocational training was a viable option, during bad economic times.

I recall that back in the late 1990s the Russians used elite troops to harvest beets and potatoes, and let them take half what they harvested as pay.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

son of witless wrote:

During the American Civil War particularly in New ... (show quote)

They can get out of it if they are enrolled in university or a trade school... Or if they have young children or a pregnant wife...
Several other ways as well...

Few of the conscripted will ever see real action... But they'll be put to use in other areas...

son of witless

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

They can get out of it if they are enrolled in university or a trade school... Or if they have young children or a pregnant wife...
Several other ways as well...

Few of the conscripted will ever see real action... But they'll be put to use in other areas...

Since the US went to a total voluntary military the quality of that force has been good. In a large war conscription would come back. Russia does not have the resources to fund an all voluntary military, even though the wars it has been involved in for years have not been that big.

How do you know whether the Russians fighting in Ukraine are draftees or not ? The Russian operation has been so flawed and chaotic, I doubt whether even Putin knows how many are Professionals, and how many are Amateur conscripts. The bodies the Ukrainians are finding in the ruins of the towns the Russians are abandoning, suggest a Russian Force lacking in discipline and command structure.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

son of witless wrote:

Since the US went to a total voluntary military th... (show quote)

New drafts aren't sent to the front lines...

Russia has already made that announcement...

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

The draft is very unpopular in Russia..Although there are lots of ways to get out of it...
It serves to keep unemployed young men from becoming an issue...

How often have you insisted that others reveal their sources when revealing continual information such as all this info on Russia? I hope you have more proof than just more “friends” in friendly conversations discussing world events…….not that I would ever question anyone’s honestly or knowledge!

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

TexaCan wrote:

How often have you insisted that others reveal their sources when revealing continual information such as all this info on Russia? I hope you have more proof than just more “friends” in friendly conversations discussing world events…….not that I would ever question anyone’s honestly or knowledge!

There are dozens of articles concerning the Russian draft and its popularity..One of Putin's better promises was to eliminate the draft...Which he has taken steps towards...

If you want a source, just ask...

son of witless

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

New drafts aren't sent to the front lines...

Russia has already made that announcement...

Yes and I believe everything Russia says. Since you were able to prove me wrong earlier with your figures of the Russian yearly conscripts going back some years, I find it implausible that since the invasion, the Russians have not deployed a large number of conscripts who were drafted in previous years.

Now some may technically be " volunteers " because I would guess there is coercion to force conscripts to enlist or reenlist. The Russians are likely hiding the extent that they has been forced to deploy poor quality draftees in Ukraine.

https://www.politico.eu/article/what-the-use-of-russia-conscripts-tells-us-about-the-war-in-ukraine/#:~:text=Currently%2C%20most%20estimates%20hold%20that,service%20and%20between%20unit%20types.

Here is something I was unaware of. " Additionally, due to widespread, brutal hazing — called dedovshchina — seen since the Soviet period, conscripts also have lower morale and unit cohesion. "

https://russiapedia.rt.com/of-russian-origin/dedovshchina/index.html

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

son of witless wrote:

Yes and I believe everything Russia says. Since yo... (show quote)

Read what I wrote again...

NEW conscripted won't be sent to the front lines...

son of witless

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

Read what I wrote again...

NEW conscripted won't be sent to the front lines...

Yea I got that. I found it odd how you stressed 'NEW' as if that mattered. I figured it was an out to avoid the entire question of Russian Conscripts being a major reason for the poor performance of the Russian Armed Forces.

Since the Russian Afghanistan adventure in the 1980s, Russian Parents do not like seeing their sons come home in body bags. Especially if they are draftees.

I don't see a real difference between new and old draftees, unless it matters to Russian Parents.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

son of witless wrote:

Yea I got that. I found it odd how you stressed 'NEW' as if that mattered. I figured it was an out to avoid the entire question of Russian Conscripts being a major reason for the poor performance of the Russian Armed Forces.

Since the Russian Afghanistan adventure in the 1980s, Russian Parents do not like seeing their sons come home in body bags. Especially if they are draftees.

I don't see a real difference between new and old draftees, unless it matters to Russian Parents.

There is a huge difference between new untrained conscripts and seasoned conscripts...

No parent likes seeing their child come home in a body bag...

son of witless

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:

There is a huge difference between new untrained conscripts and seasoned conscripts...

No parent likes seeing their child come home in a body bag...

How exactly did they get their seasoning ? In Syria ? Or maybe from dedovshchina, which I mentioned previously.

Seasoned draftees or not, I don't think it is a good idea to not even tell your soldiers where they are going. Some captured Russian Troops said they were told they were only on a training mission before they were suddenly thrown into combat.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

son of witless wrote:

How exactly did they get their seasoning ? In Syria ? Or maybe from dedovshchina, which I mentioned previously.

Seasoned draftees or not, I don't think it is a good idea to not even tell your soldiers where they are going. Some captured Russian Troops said they were told they were only on a training mission before they were suddenly thrown into combat.

The same way all troops get seasoning~Time...

That is just Ukrainian propaganda...