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Dec 1, 2021 20:56:12   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Look into who owns the train lines and shipping companies... And who they donate to... It's not rocket science...


Warren Buffet and Berkshire Hathaway are big investors in Burlington Northern and other railroads. They are making billions on t***sporting oil from Canada. The Democratic Party has been the big beneficiary of donations from these t***sportation industries.

My original question was whether the actual numbers cited are correct or if they were manipulated to make it look like it's more expensive and inefficient to not use the Keystone Pipeline. I only wonder about the veracity of the data presented.

Canceling the pipeline did put a lot of people out of work and the materials that were to be used are just sitting there, rusting away; millions of dollars in infrastructure. How ironic, especially that this is not in the Infrastructure Bill.

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Dec 1, 2021 21:38:03   #
moldyoldy
 
dtucker300 wrote:
Warren Buffet and Berkshire Hathaway are big investors in Burlington Northern and other railroads. They are making billions on t***sporting oil from Canada. The Democratic Party has been the big beneficiary of donations from these t***sportation industries.

My original question was whether the actual numbers cited are correct or if they were manipulated to make it look like it's more expensive and inefficient to not use the Keystone Pipeline. I only wonder about the veracity of the data presented.

Canceling the pipeline did put a lot of people out of work and the materials that were to be used are just sitting there, rusting away; millions of dollars in infrastructure. How ironic, especially that this is not in the Infrastructure Bill.
Warren Buffet and Berkshire Hathaway are big inves... (show quote)


https://digitalworks.union.edu/theses/493/

Abstract
The Keystone XL pipeline is one of the most controversial topics in North America over the last five years. The debate is based on the trade‐off between Canadian oil sands as a usable energy resource and the environmental effects associated with the extraction and refining of the oil. The green house gasses emitted from the extraction and refining of oil sands produces several environmental concerns that make the proposed pipeline controversial. On the other hand, Canadian oil companies see a significant benefit from the ability of Canadian oil reaching international markets. T***sCanada, a 79.99 percent owner of the pipeline, conducted an evaluation of the pipeline; however, their valuations have been questioned due to their bias. This paper provides an objective analysis of the pipeline, from the perspective of Canada. Through conducting a Cost‐Benefit Analysis, it finds that the pipeline provides a net‐benefit of $118 billion dollars to Canada and its citizens.


The takedown of the notorious Keystone XL (KXL) tar sands pipeline will go down as one of this generation’s most monumental environmental victories. After more than 10 years of tenacious protests, drawn-out legal battles, and flip-flopping executive orders spanning three p**********l administrations, the Keystone XL pipeline is now gone for good. The project’s corporate backer—the Canadian energy infrastructure company TC Energy—officially abandoned the project in June 2021 following President Joe Biden’s denial of a key permit on his first day in office. But the path to victory wasn’t always clear. Many had hoped that the disastrous project was finally done for in November 2015, when the Obama administration vetoed the pipeline—acknowledging its pervasive threats to climate, ecosystems, drinking water sources, and public health. But immediately after taking office, President Donald Trump brought the zombie project back to life, along with the legal battles against it. By the time President Biden took office in 2021, ready to fulfill his campaign promise to revoke the cross-border permit, the dirty energy pipeline had become one of the foremost climate controversies of our time.
https://www.nrdc.org/stories/what-keystone-pipeline

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/15/facebook-posts/keystone-xl-suspension-probably-wont-boost-oil-pri/

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Dec 1, 2021 21:52:56   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
moldyoldy wrote:
https://digitalworks.union.edu/theses/493/

Abstract
The Keystone XL pipeline is one of the most controversial topics in North America over the last five years. The debate is based on the trade‐off between Canadian oil sands as a usable energy resource and the environmental effects associated with the extraction and refining of the oil. The green house gasses emitted from the extraction and refining of oil sands produces several environmental concerns that make the proposed pipeline controversial. On the other hand, Canadian oil companies see a significant benefit from the ability of Canadian oil reaching international markets. T***sCanada, a 79.99 percent owner of the pipeline, conducted an evaluation of the pipeline; however, their valuations have been questioned due to their bias. This paper provides an objective analysis of the pipeline, from the perspective of Canada. Through conducting a Cost‐Benefit Analysis, it finds that the pipeline provides a net‐benefit of $118 billion dollars to Canada and its citizens.


The takedown of the notorious Keystone XL (KXL) tar sands pipeline will go down as one of this generation’s most monumental environmental victories. After more than 10 years of tenacious protests, drawn-out legal battles, and flip-flopping executive orders spanning three p**********l administrations, the Keystone XL pipeline is now gone for good. The project’s corporate backer—the Canadian energy infrastructure company TC Energy—officially abandoned the project in June 2021 following President Joe Biden’s denial of a key permit on his first day in office. But the path to victory wasn’t always clear. Many had hoped that the disastrous project was finally done for in November 2015, when the Obama administration vetoed the pipeline—acknowledging its pervasive threats to climate, ecosystems, drinking water sources, and public health. But immediately after taking office, President Donald Trump brought the zombie project back to life, along with the legal battles against it. By the time President Biden took office in 2021, ready to fulfill his campaign promise to revoke the cross-border permit, the dirty energy pipeline had become one of the foremost climate controversies of our time.
https://www.nrdc.org/stories/what-keystone-pipeline

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/15/facebook-posts/keystone-xl-suspension-probably-wont-boost-oil-pri/
https://digitalworks.union.edu/theses/493/ br br ... (show quote)


Okay, I get it. This is your spin on the pipeline. But you still are not addressing the concerns listed in the original post? My question was one of economics, not politics or environmentalism. Are the costs listed for each method of t***sportation, boat, rail, pipeline, tanker truck, etc., accurate? You don't have the expertise to answer such a question. But you had to chime in with your agenda and political spin, nevertheless. What has Biden done to stop the Tar Sands from being moved to the Gulf Coast and refined? Nothing! Shutting down the pipeline didn't stop it. It only shirted the means of t***sport to a more inefficient and costly means.

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Dec 1, 2021 22:12:48   #
moldyoldy
 
dtucker300 wrote:
Okay, I get it. This is your spin on the pipeline. But you still are not addressing the concerns listed in the original post? My question was one of economics, not politics or environmentalism. Are the costs listed for each method of t***sportation, boat, rail, pipeline, tanker truck, etc., accurate? You don't have the expertise to answer such a question. But you had to chime in with your agenda and political spin, nevertheless. What has Biden done to stop the Tar Sands from being moved to the Gulf Coast and refined? Nothing! Shutting down the pipeline didn't stop it. It only shirted the means of t***sport to a more inefficient and costly means.
Okay, I get it. This is your spin on the pipeline... (show quote)



I have not researched the cost, since the cost is all on the Canadian owners of the oil. It is profit for the railroad.

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Dec 1, 2021 22:20:34   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
moldyoldy wrote:
I have not researched the cost, since the cost is all on the Canadian owners of the oil. It is profit for the railroad.


Pffft! Subsidized by the taxpayers.

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Dec 2, 2021 09:10:57   #
America 1 Loc: South Miami
 
Rinaldi wrote:
Do you understand the difference between the term "energy independence" and oil independence?


This country was NEVER oil independent, which is why this country was and is so dependent on the ME as well as other countries whether or not they are OPEC, and since the country is a major oil producer, why isn't the USA a member of OPEC?



Why isn't Russia, Canada, China, Brazil, Mexico, Norway?
The current OPEC members are the following: Algeria, Angola, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, the Republic of the Congo, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela.

Oil Production by Country
1 United States 14,837,639,510
2 Saudi Arabia 12,402,761,040
3 Russia 11,262,746,200
4 China 4,905,070,874
5 Canada 4,596,724,820
6 Iraq 4,443,457,393
7 Iran 4,376,194,355
8 United Arab Emirates 3,772,788,273
9 Brazil 3,242,957,836
10 Kuwait 2,990,544,137
11 Mexico 2,484,354,880
12 Venezuela 2,355,423,552
13 Norway 2,003,747,525
14 Qatar 1,987,192,978
https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-production-by-country/

Oil Dependence and U.S. Foreign Policy
1850 – 2021
https://www.cfr.org/timeline/oil-dependence-and-us-foreign-policy

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Dec 2, 2021 10:21:07   #
American Scene
 
America 1 wrote:
Why isn't Russia, Canada, China, Brazil, Mexico, Norway?
The current OPEC members are the following: Algeria, Angola, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, the Republic of the Congo, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela.

Oil Production by Country
1 United States 14,837,639,510
2 Saudi Arabia 12,402,761,040
3 Russia 11,262,746,200
4 China 4,905,070,874
5 Canada 4,596,724,820
6 Iraq 4,443,457,393
7 Iran 4,376,194,355
8 United Arab Emirates 3,772,788,273
9 Brazil 3,242,957,836
10 Kuwait 2,990,544,137
11 Mexico 2,484,354,880
12 Venezuela 2,355,423,552
13 Norway 2,003,747,525
14 Qatar 1,987,192,978
https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-production-by-country/

Oil Dependence and U.S. Foreign Policy
1850 – 2021
https://www.cfr.org/timeline/oil-dependence-and-us-foreign-policy
Why isn't Russia, Canada, China, Brazil, Mexico, N... (show quote)





Your numbers prove that trump and conservative pundits are liars or galactic proportions.

The daily oil usage of this country are in excess of 18 million barrels/day.

Which proves that despite trump lies, this country is not, was not and will not be OIL independent

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Dec 2, 2021 10:28:23   #
America 1 Loc: South Miami
 
Rinaldi wrote:
Your numbers prove that trump and conservative pundits are liars or galactic proportions.

The daily oil usage of this country is in excess of 18 million barrels/day.

This proves that despite trump lies, this country is not, was not, and will not be OIL independent


Answer the question.

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Dec 2, 2021 11:07:41   #
moldyoldy
 
Special Report: Trump told Saudi: Cut oil supply or lose U.S. military support

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN22C1V4

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Dec 2, 2021 11:13:57   #
American Scene
 
America 1 wrote:
Answer the question.




Answer it yourself, after all trump was the GREAT BUSINESS MAN and the great deal maker and negotiator

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Dec 2, 2021 14:01:26   #
America 1 Loc: South Miami
 
Rinaldi wrote:
Answer it yourself, after all, trump was the GREAT BUSINESSMAN and the great deal maker and negotiator


The question was not about Trump.
And you are the greatest nothing unless you include BS.

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Dec 4, 2021 20:42:05   #
Truth be known
 
dtucker300 wrote:
Pipelines vs. Trains vs. Cargo Ships

Someone with a sharp mind and the capacity to do a little research spent time putting some numbers together: Now, the question remains, "Is this information reliable?"

1 Train has 100 cars, 2 engines and weighs 27,240,000 LBS

1 Train carries 3,000,000 gallons of oil.

1 train uses 55.5 gallons of diesel per mile.

It takes 119,000 gallons of diesel to go 2150 miles from Hardisty, AB to Freeport, TX.

Keystone pipeline was to deliver 34,860,000 gallons of oil per day.

It would take 12 trains and 1,428,000 gallons of diesel to deliver that amount. PER DAY!

521,220,000 gallons of diesel per year.

The oil will still go to market with or without the pipeline.

By stopping the pipeline billions of gallons of diesel will be wasted and pollution will increase needlessly. Does that make you feel good?

Stop the Tar Sands all together? Then we must ship the oil from the overseas sandbox.

1 large oil tanker can haul 120,000,000 gallons of oil

1 boat takes 15 days to float across the Atlantic.

1 boat uses 63,000 gallons of fuel PER DAY, that is about 1 million gallons of the most polluting type fuel in the world PER TRIP.*(See below)

Or take 3.5 days of Keystone Pipeline to move the same amount of oil with a fraction of the pollution.

In international waters, ship emissions remain one of the least regulated parts of our global t***sportation system. The fuel used in ships is waste oil, basically what is left over after the crude oil refining process. It is the same as asphalt and is so thick that when cold it can be walked upon. It's the cheapest and most polluting fuel available and the world's 90,000 ships chew through an astonishing 7.29 million barrels of it each day, or more than 84% of all exported oil production from Saudi Arabia.

Shipping is by far the biggest t***sport polluter in the world. There are 760 million cars in the world today emitting approx 78,599 tons of Sulfur Oxides (SOx) annually. The world's 90,000 vessels burn approx 370 million tons of fuel per year emitting 20 million tons of Sulfur Oxides. That equates to 260 times more Sulfur Oxides being emitted by ships than the world's entire car fleet. One large ship alone can generate approximately 5,200 tons of sulfur oxide pollution in a year, meaning that 15 of the largest ships now emit as much SOx as the world’s 760 million cars

Eliminate all gas-consuming cars and diesel vehicles?

Worldwide car gas consumption is 403,583,712,000 gallons a year. That's billion.

Worldwide oil consumption is 1,500,000,000,000 gallons a year. That's trillion.

It takes 2.15 gallons of oil to make 1 gallon of gasoline/petrol and 0.6 gals of diesel.

So it takes 867,704,980,800 gallons of oil to run the world's cars, most diesel vehicles for a year, and some ships

That leaves 632,295,019,200 gallons of oil for other uses.

Passenger vehicles are only a very small percentage of the problem. If emissions are the problem why not just capture them at the exhaust? Create an industry to clean exhaust instead of crushing an entire industry and building a completely untested, replacement industry?

So are we willing to dramatically increase mining to get all the minerals necessary to make all these batteries and electric motors? Mining is far worse for the environment than oil extraction.

K*****g Keystone was glibly decided by emotional i***ts without brains! Destructive i***ts who are fooling America to boost their standing with foreign paymasters.
b Pipelines vs. Trains vs. Cargo Ships /b br b... (show quote)


I'm going to use your post to attempt to educate a few people. Thank you for this great resource.

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