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Two points on the "rapture"
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Oct 5, 2014 01:01:17   #
acitizen Loc: Cowboys never die... but they can be mounted.
 
rumitoid wrote:
Good point. Many Christians take both the fruit of the spirit and the Sermon on the Mount as Christian ethics or values or principles: in my view, this is antithetical to what Christ taught. Utmost is to honest where we are and to relate to all from that place.


The Sermon on the Mount is to be taken literally and the Fruit of the Spirit is given to us by Christ. You said that is antithetical, or contradictory, to what Christ taught. I think He meant for us to take His Word literally as He gave it to us and that should include Christian ethics or values or principles. IMHO..

Galatians 5:22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

Not of nature or man's free will, as corrupted by sin, rather of the Holy Spirit, the graces of which are called "fruit", and not "works", as the actions of the flesh are; because they are owing to divine influence efficacy, and bounty, as the fruits of the earth are, to which the allusion is; and not to a man's self. Christ Himself, being "His pleasant fruits"; which as they come from Him, as the author of them, they are exercised on Him as the object of them, under the influence of the Spirit; and because they are profitable to them that are possessed of them.

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Oct 5, 2014 03:37:45   #
cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob
 
ginnyt wrote:
People often argue this. Did God command that a temple be built. He commanded a mishkan, a type of portable place to house the covenant. Remember that these were travelers after leaving Egypt. A permanent house was never a consideration. It was not until King Solomon that God allowed a temple to be constructed. 1 Chronicles 17:11, 12: “It shall come to pass ... that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.” This prophecy given to King David says his offspring will build the temple. Later, in 1 Chronicles 28:6, God reaffirms, “Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts.”


My thoughts on rebuilding the Temple, well let us consider that the area where the Temple stood is now impure. To enter such a place is punishable. Let us say that, we are able to purify the grounds, now we have another issue. That is the placement of the alter. The design and placement of the alter is very important because God himself made it clear where it should stand. No one has those blueprints. This was problematic when the Temple was rebuilt. When they built the Second Holy Temple, they had to find reliable witnesses who could testify to the exact spot. They found three such witnesses, the prophets Haggai, Zephaniah and Malachi, but we don't have any prophets or witnesses today. Thus, until a prophet comes and tells us where to build the Altar (among many other things we need to know first), we cannot build the Holy Altar. Okay, let us say that a prophet comes and tells us where to build the alter, and we find a pure Cohen for building, we encounter the next problem. Our next problem is that we must appoint a High Priest, or all Service is forbidden. To appoint a High Priest, we need a Sanhedrin, which is a body of 71 ordained rabbis acting as the Supreme Court of the People Of Israel. We cannot assemble a Sanhedrin, because the Sanhedrin must consist of rabbis ordained with the Mosaic Ordination, which was t***smitted from Rabbi to Rabbi since Moses. However, the Mosaic Ordination ceased to exist in the year 358 C.E. because of the persecutions Constantinius perpetrated upon the Jews. There are yet other problems, such as Laws involving the Priestly Garments, the exact measurements of the Temple area, and many, many more, all of which demand as yet undiscovered answers.

And there are other types of concerns as well. The Torah does not even consider it a requirement on our part to rebuild the Holy Temple until most or all the Children of Israel live in the land of Israel. And there is also the matter of the Return of the Ten Tribes to consider, which will be part of our Final Redemption.

When these things have taken place, and we have made lasting peace with our enemies; when all Jews have returned to the Holy Land of Israel, and religious Jews have complete temporal and religious control over the land, then we will know that our Final Redemption has begun, and we can then turn our thoughts towards rebuilding the Holy Temple.

We have a tradition that Elijah the Prophet will arrive and reveal himself to us before the Advent of the Messiah. He will arrive and answer all questions and resolve all doubts. He will reveal to us which families are definitely Cohanim. And he is a recipient of the Ordination Of Moses and can therefore restore the Sanhedrin. And he will bring peace to the world. The time of the arrival of the Messiah is not known. About this there is a saying, "Those who know, don't say; those who say, don't know."

Nothing is impossible for God. What I am saying is that rebuilding the Temple will be quite the event.

References:

1. Mogen Avrohom Orach Chayim 561:2

2. Numbers 19:1-22. For a deeper discussion of the actual Laws and rituals of this process, see Maimonides, Yad, Purity, the first two divisions: The Laws of Impurities, and the Laws of the Red Heifer.

3. Maim. Yad, Laws of Sacrifices 19:1

4. Responsa of the Chasam Sofer, Orach Chayim Responsum 208, based on B.T. Zevachim 62a

5. Babylonian Talmud, Yevamos 74b. See also Rav Hai Gaon, Succah, near the end.

6. Maim. Yad, Laws of Entering the Temple 4:15

7. Maim. Yad, Laws of the Utensils of the Temple 4:15

8. Maim. Yad, Laws of Sanhedrin 4:1

9. Zemach Dovid 4118

10. Babylonian Talmud, Eruvin 43b

11. Babylonian Talmud Pesachim 13a

12. Mishnayos Eduyos 8:7

13. Maimonides, Introduction to Yad

14. Volume Five, Section "Laws Regarding the Land of Israel," Responsum 351
People often argue this. Did God command that a t... (show quote)


Ginnyt.I thought that I had read the Jews had started the sanhedren and they have even started making all of the instruments for the temple. I've seen pictures of the trumpets and the menorah and the table for the shofar and many other implements. Am I wrong in believing the Jews are not building the temple in the future? There are videos showing where the ark of the covenant is found in around Jeremiahs grotto in Jerusalem. He found it and it is close to Zachariah's caves. If you haven't seen the YouTube videos about the find it is very convincing. And you can search Ron Wyatt and the ark of the covenant and see the videos. I hope you are enjoying yom kippur? And i am looking forward to wednesdays blood moon spectacle again Gods peace Shalom

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Oct 5, 2014 09:24:35   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Hello my friend,

What I am saying is right now the rebuilding of the Temple is impossible. Right before the Messiah comes, a prophet of old will come to us, God will send him with all the knowledge we will need. Well that is the belief based on the Bible and teachings. This individual will be a blessing, for peace will spread throughout the world. And the way will be made to rebuild.

There are actually two Arks, this is explained in Exodus. Also, the Books of Kings, Chronicles, the Septuagint, the Talmud and Josephus are all in agreement. Shishak took ALL the treasures of Solomon’s Temple at the time of Rehoboam. He (Shishak) raided the Temple and stripped it bare of everything. So the Ark with the broken stones given so many years before was lost on this raid. Many times, the Temples were raided, primarily for the gold and silver. It is not known if the God's treasures were melted down and recast into other things or not. What we do know from historical accounts is copies of the Ark and alter items were made. In fact, these copies (just like now in modern times there are copies), each area had one. Surprisingly, all of those Arks have disappeared. None are left any place. It is not written, but many Jews think that God reclaimed the real Ark and all copies. He (God) will give them back when the Temple is rebuilt.

Ron Wyatt sadly passed away from cancer. The area he was working was resealed. As far as I know, and I do not know everything, nothing was removed from this excavation area.

This is a long video, but it does give an idea of where he was working.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc0QilF74c8

I remain, your friend and I thank you for your wishes of blessing during this time. We will see what unfolds during the blood moon.....

Shalom

cant beleve wrote:
Ginnyt.I thought that I had read the Jews had started the sanhedren and they have even started making all of the instruments for the temple. I've seen pictures of the trumpets and the menorah and the table for the shofar and many other implements. Am I wrong in believing the Jews are not building the temple in the future? There are videos showing where the ark of the covenant is found in around Jeremiahs grotto in Jerusalem. He found it and it is close to Zachariah's caves. If you haven't seen the YouTube videos about the find it is very convincing. And you can search Ron Wyatt and the ark of the covenant and see the videos. I hope you are enjoying yom kippur? And i am looking forward to wednesdays blood moon spectacle again Gods peace Shalom
Ginnyt.I thought that I had read the Jews had star... (show quote)

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Oct 6, 2014 00:13:30   #
rumitoid
 
acitizen wrote:
The Sermon on the Mount is to be taken literally and the Fruit of the Spirit is given to us by Christ. You said that is antithetical, or contradictory, to what Christ taught. I think He meant for us to take His Word literally as He gave it to us and that should include Christian ethics or values or principles. IMHO..

Galatians 5:22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

Not of nature or man's free will, as corrupted by sin, rather of the Holy Spirit, the graces of which are called "fruit", and not "works", as the actions of the flesh are; because they are owing to divine influence efficacy, and bounty, as the fruits of the earth are, to which the allusion is; and not to a man's self. Christ Himself, being "His pleasant fruits"; which as they come from Him, as the author of them, they are exercised on Him as the object of them, under the influence of the Spirit; and because they are profitable to them that are possessed of them.
The Sermon on the Mount is to be taken literally a... (show quote)


The actual t***slation, as I have researched, is the fruit of the spirit is love, and from this comes...

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