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God vs EVILution.... #2
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Sep 13, 2014 18:05:22   #
Alicia Loc: NYC
 
slatten49 wrote:
Very good article, Bdamage. There are many types of science, and I think it commendable that scientists in all fields remain open to the evolution of those fields according to new findings or revelations.

There are many religions, also, and I could say, with some certainty, that they are all quite confident/smug as to their authenticity, even though many...in varying degrees, differ from one another. Yet, each claims their's the true Faith. I would include those who claim no religious-based Faith.

Religionists are more closed minded than scientists, one could surmise. Yet, they can't all be right in their views. Diests at least claim to believe in a God of Reason and Nature, which many claim dismisses the Bible's version of Creation.
Very good article, Bdamage. There are many types ... (show quote)

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Thanks Slatton. I guess I'm really a Deist for which god is an essence and does not maintain a physical form.

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Sep 13, 2014 18:09:06   #
PeterS
 
larry wrote:
Within all of us is the knowledge of God, it is part of our creation. If you were able to explain yourself and this creation without the supernatural, you would have a point, but the evidence of design and order are prevalent, indicating a designer. That designer we register as God.

So a magician waving a magic wand explains how we came into being? That’s what the supernatural is my friend. Myself, I’ll take nature, chemistry, and time...

Quote:
When seeking a first cause for everything, as soon as we come across unexplainable and inexplicable events, we by our created nature acknowledge the source. Fortunately, we have historical human encounters that have been recorded as the demonstrated power of that source.


Huh? If you were a liberal you would be accused of being on drugs now. What source? What makes you think that simply encountering the unexplainable that we have to acknowledge some unknown source?

Quote:
Now you can believe the records of honest humans or you can deny them.


Honest humans? How do you know they are honest? Was Pope Urban VIII more honest than Galileo? When you have only faith to rely on how do you know who is being honest and who isn''t?

Quote:
Denial however requires at least as much evidence against the event as there is for it. Since there are no evidentiary denials of them we have to use them as t***h. If you have proof of unt***h, of course trot it out and we will take a look at it.


The prosecution of Copernicus, Newton, Galileo for starters. Anytime reason has challenged dogma, dogma has clung to “unt***h” until there was no other possibility but to believe the t***h. And I love how you use psychological Projection to point the finger else where. You might try a little intellectual honesty instead of all this denial...

Quote:
I am a seeker of t***h. There is more evidence for God than against God. At this point, no one has shown any evidence that God does not exist.


Only in your imagination. The only supposed “evidence” for god is complexity and the argument of design. However, absence of proof is not a proof but an augment from ignorance which is a logical fallacy. You CANNOT use a logical fallacy to prove a logical argument and without a logical argument you have proved nothing. You cannot be a seeker of t***h when the t***h you find is based on a fallacy.

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Sep 13, 2014 18:16:57   #
PeterS
 
larry wrote:
If you believe in God, you must stand firm, if you do not, anything goes.

Why does anything go? Do you honestly have no faith in yourself? If your belief trembles even in the slightest you have no means of controlling yourself? How sad. How very, very sad...

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Sep 13, 2014 18:19:23   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
Alicia wrote:
*****************
Thanks Slatton. I guess I'm really a Deist for which god is an essence and does not maintain a physical form.


"Deism is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existance of a Creator, acompanied with the rejection of authority as a source of religious knowledge." In other words...'Nature's God', or 'God of Nature'.

Thomas Paine and Ethan Allan were examples of pure Deists among the Founding Fathers. The largest number of the Founding Fathers were Christians who were largely influenced by Deistic beliefs. They believed in little or none of the miracles and supernaturalism inherent in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Those Deistic Christians included George Washington, John Adams, Ben Franklin and James Monroe.

Anyone can verify these statements to be true by a simple search on the internet. I searched under the catagory of: deistsamongfoundingfathers.

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Sep 13, 2014 19:44:26   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
slatten49 wrote:
"Deism is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existance of a Creator, acompanied with the rejection of authority as a source of religious knowledge." In other words...'Nature's God', or 'God of Nature'.

Thomas Paine and Ethan Allan were examples of pure Deists among the Founding Fathers. The largest number of the Founding Fathers were Christians who were largely influenced by Deistic beliefs. They believed in little or none of the miracles and supernaturalism inherent in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Those Deistic Christians included George Washington, John Adams, Ben Franklin and James Monroe.

Anyone can verify these statements to be true by a simple search on the internet. I searched under the catagory of: deistsamongfoundingfathers.
"Deism is the belief that reason and observat... (show quote)


And this is bad how?

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Sep 13, 2014 19:50:39   #
Alicia Loc: NYC
 
slatten49 wrote:
"Deism is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existance of a Creator, acompanied with the rejection of authority as a source of religious knowledge." In other words...'Nature's God', or 'God of Nature'.

Thomas Paine and Ethan Allan were examples of pure Deists among the Founding Fathers. The largest number of the Founding Fathers were Christians who were largely influenced by Deistic beliefs. They believed in little or none of the miracles and supernaturalism inherent in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Those Deistic Christians included George Washington, John Adams, Ben Franklin and James Monroe.

Anyone can verify these statements to be true by a simple search on the internet. I searched under the catagory of: deistsamongfoundingfathers.
"Deism is the belief that reason and observat... (show quote)

***************
I still have a spot in my heart for the pagans who created a god for each living creature and thanked that deity when it was required that each animal be sacrificed for food.

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Sep 13, 2014 20:01:37   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
PeterS wrote:
Only in your imagination. The only supposed “evidence” for god is complexity and the argument of design. However, absence of proof is not a proof but an augment from ignorance which is a logical fallacy. You CANNOT use a logical fallacy to prove a logical argument and without a logical argument you have proved nothing. You cannot be a seeker of t***h when the t***h you find is based on a fallacy.


Then without going into a complicated discussion, how do you contend that the universe is in such perfect order and everything has a purpose. I think it was an enlightened scientist named Louis Pasteur, that debunked spontaneousness. When he proved that meat in a sealed container did not produce flies.....Hmmm. yes it was Louis.

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Sep 13, 2014 20:24:32   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
And this is bad how?


I am writing this as a matter of record and most certainly not as a bad thing. It speaks well of those Founding Fathers who chose paths apart from others of equal Faiths.

Exhibits of 'free will', IMO.

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Sep 13, 2014 20:36:42   #
PeterS
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
Then without going into a complicated discussion, how do you contend that the universe is in such perfect order and everything has a purpose. I think it was an enlightened scientist named Louis Pasteur, that debunked spontaneousness. When he proved that meat in a sealed container did not produce flies.....Hmmm. yes it was Louis.

I don’t contend the universe is in perfect order, nor that everything has a purpose, and since Louie’s findings debunks the notion that god created man from dirt and Eve from a rib I am not sure what point about spontaneousness you are trying to make?

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Sep 13, 2014 20:38:46   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
PeterS wrote:
I don’t contend the universe is in perfect order, nor that everything has a purpose, and since Louie’s findings debunks the notion that god created man from dirt and Eve from a rib I am not sure what point about spontaneousness you are trying to make?


I am now going to debunk your statement. If the universe is in perfect order, and the order does not govern itself, then how would you explain that it stays in that order?

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Sep 13, 2014 20:42:53   #
PeterS
 
slatten49 wrote:
"Deism is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existance of a Creator, acompanied with the rejection of authority as a source of religious knowledge." In other words...'Nature's God', or 'God of Nature'.

Thomas Paine and Ethan Allan were examples of pure Deists among the Founding Fathers. The largest number of the Founding Fathers were Christians who were largely influenced by Deistic beliefs. They believed in little or none of the miracles and supernaturalism inherent in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Those Deistic Christians included George Washington, John Adams, Ben Franklin and James Monroe.

Anyone can verify these statements to be true by a simple search on the internet. I searched under the catagory of: deistsamongfoundingfathers.
"Deism is the belief that reason and observat... (show quote)

You left out Jefferson who was without question a deist--he rewrote the bible to remove all references of miricles and divinity by Jesus. That's pretty much Deism 101...

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Sep 13, 2014 20:48:40   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
PeterS wrote:
You left out Jefferson who was without question a deist--he rewrote the bible to remove all references of miricles and divinity by Jesus. That's pretty much Deism 101...


I'm not sure if you are understanding their view point during the age of enlightenment. I think you are missing quite a lot here in bringing up Deism.

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Sep 13, 2014 20:56:13   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
PeterS wrote:
You left out Jefferson who was without question a deist--he rewrote the bible to remove all references of miricles and divinity by Jesus. That's pretty much Deism 101...


Sorry, PeterS. As I would not list all of the Founding Fathers mentioned, I just listed a few from the source. I did point out a majority of them were either deists or influenced by deism. I would not deny Jefferson being on the list. :wink:

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Sep 13, 2014 21:10:28   #
PeterS
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
I am now going to debunk your statement. If the universe is in perfect order, and the order does not govern itself, then how would you explain that it stays in that order?

1) I have no idea if the universe is in perfect order, I simply said that wasn't my claim. 2) Why can’t the universe govern itself. Even a “perfect” universe can be self governing. 3) The explanation is what it has always been--physics.

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Sep 13, 2014 21:31:22   #
PeterS
 
slatten49 wrote:
Sorry, PeterS. As I would not list all of the Founding Fathers mentioned, I just listed a few from the source. I did point out a majority of them were either deist or influenced by deism. I would not deny Jefferson being on the list. :wink:

Not a problem, I wasn't trying to pin you down only pointing out the biggest deist of them all.

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