Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

I believe that it explains itself...

Matt 5:18...For truly I tell you, """"until heaven and earth disappear,""" not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by "any means" disappear from the law until everything is accomplished.

Seems strait forward and clear to me.

It doesn't say that from the time of the crucifixion...it says until heaven and earth disappear.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

No....what I'm doing is letting the Christian Bible speak for itself about the duration of the Law and in verse 18 it says that the law will stay as long as heaven and earth haven't disappeared.

That's my specific purpose statement.

Nothing to do with whether Jesus was the messiah.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

I didn't intend to run you off, Rose.

Rose42

You didn't.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Did you see my question point wasn't about whether Jesus is the messiah?

The law being talked about was described as being fully intact until heaven and earth disappear.

You ask what I thought verse 18 in Matt 5 says.

My reply is the verse explains itself..

I've read Chritian commentary where the bizarre interpretation is trying to say that it says just the opposite of what even a part time bible student doesn't have to interpret, because its simply and clearly conveyed.

Rose42

What bizarre interpretation are you talking about?

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Do you have a reply about what verse 18 is clearly saying?

Can you elaborate on verses 17 thru 19 of Matt 5.and enlightened me as in actually explain those verses to me.? Please?

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

I'll see if I can locate its source.

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

Michael those verses have everything to do with who Jesus is. I think this explanation from Gotquestions will help you understand why. I use this site because it answers questions in detail with additional verses to support it.

You say that you are letting the Bible speak for itself, but you don’t because you don’t accept who Jesus is nor do you accept the entire Bible.


Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17–18). This important statement of our Lord gives us insight into His mission and the character of God’s Word.



Jesus’ declaration that He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, not to abolish them, obviously contains two statements in one. There is something Jesus did and something He did not do. At the same time, Jesus emphasized the eternal nature of the Word of God.

Jesus goes out of His way to promote the authority of the Law of God. He did not come to abolish the Law, regardless of what the Pharisees accused Him of. In fact, Jesus continues His statement with a commendation for those who teach the Law accurately and hold it in reverence: “Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19).

Note the qualities that Jesus attributes to the Word of God, referenced as “the Law and the Prophets”: 1) The Word is everlasting; it will outlast the natural world. 2) The Word was written with intent; it was meant to be fulfilled. 3) The Word possesses plenary authority; even the smallest letter of it is established. 4) The Word is faithful and trustworthy; “everything” it says will be accomplished. No one hearing Jesus’ words in the Sermon on the Mount could doubt His commitment to the Scriptures.

Consider what Jesus did not do in His ministry. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus says that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets. In other words, Jesus’ purpose was not to abrogate the Word, dissolve it, or render it invalid. The Prophets will be fulfilled; the Law will continue to accomplish the purpose for which it was given (see Isaiah 55:10–11).

Next, consider what Jesus did do. Jesus says that He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. In other words, Jesus’ purpose was to establish the Word, to embody it, and to fully accomplish all that was written. “Christ is the culmination of the law” (Romans 10:4). The predictions of the Prophets concerning the Messiah would be realized in Jesus; the holy standard of the Law would be perfectly upheld by Christ, the strict requirements personally obeyed, and the ceremonial observances finally and fully satisfied.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the Prophets in that, in His first coming alone, He fulfilled hundreds of prophecies concerning Himself (e.g., Matthew 1:22; 13:35; John 19:36; Luke 24:44). Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law in at least two ways: as a teacher and as a doer. He taught people to obey the Law (Matthew 22:35–40; Mark 1:44), and He obeyed the Law Himself (John 8:46; 1 Peter 2:22). In living a perfect life, Jesus fulfilled the moral laws; in His sacrificial death, Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial laws. Christ came not to destroy the old religious system but to build upon it; He came to finish the Old Covenant and establish the New.

Jesus came not to destroy the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them. In fact, the ceremonies, sacrifices, and other elements of the Old Covenant were “only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves” (Hebrews 10:1). The tabernacle and temple were “holy places made with hands,” but they were never meant to be permanent; they were but “copies of the true things” (Hebrews 9:24, ESV). The Law had a built-in expiration date, being filled as it was with “external regulations applying until the time of the new order” (Hebrews 9:10).

In His fulfillment of the Law and Prophets, Jesus obtained our eternal salvation. No more were priests required to offer sacrifices and enter the holy place (Hebrews 10:8–14). Jesus has done that for us, once and for all. By grace through faith, we are made right with God: “He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross” (Colossians 2:14).

There are some who argue that, since Jesus did not “abolish” the Law, then the Law is still in effect—and still binding on New Testament Christians. But Paul is clear that the believer in Christ is no longer under the Law: “We were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the Law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian” (Galatians 3:23–25, BSB). We are not under the Mosaic Law but under “the law of Christ” (see Galatians 6:2).

If the Law is still binding on us today, then it has not yet accomplished its purpose—it has not yet been fulfilled. If the Law, as a legal system, is still binding on us today, then Jesus was wrong in claiming to fulfill it and His sacrifice on the cross was insufficient to save. Thank God, Jesus fulfilled the whole Law and now grants us His righteousness as a free gift. “Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified” (Galatians 2:16).

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

One would think that the OT or Christ would have mentioned that...

It was good of Paul to clarify...

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Thank you for kindly replying.

I still can't be swayed from the actual rendering of the plain text of verse 17 thru 19.

I don't believe that it takes a special interpretation.

Paul destroyed the original church with his radical anti-Law,..... pro, what Paul says edicts

Paul literally hated Jews and their God.

Paul also was a chameleon of sorts.

In 1 Corinthians 9:20...When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ. When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law. Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring those to Christ who are under the law.

Rose42

You are trying to take verses out of context to make them into something they are not. Your heart has hardened which is a dangerous condition. Those verses are in the beginning of the sermon on the mount and you can see he is speaking of moral law.

Paul hated Jews and God until his experience on the Damascus road. Paul destroyed nothing.

Rose42

You would think that because you read the bible like its just another book. You don't know God's mind or how he should have had his word written. Some eyes will stay shut no matter how much they read or research.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Reading a verse Verbatim is taking it out of context.?

After years of accepting things on faith, I've changed over to study a subject thoroughly.

There is a definite difference in what Jesus said and what Paul said.

Circle around reasoning doesn't prove anything but confusion.

I won't ask you to explain the three simple verses again, because it seems that you are unable to.

But I do enjoy the debating.

By the way, what morals are not covered by the ten commandments?

Rose42

There is no circling around and Paul did not contradict Christ.

They are three simple verses whose context is explained in the following verses. I did explain. If you insist on taking them at face value then you should be sacrificing animals and obeying all the ceremonial laws as well.

The bible explains itself. The verses you chose are not standalone verses