Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

The Cross is a Christian idol adopted from paganism. People wear it around their necks as a holy trinket.

They hang it on a wall to be recognized as Christian.

If Jesus would have been electrocuted instead of being hanged on a stake, would people now be wearing little electric chairs as symbols of faith?

Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois

You mock Jesus’ death on the cross, the most horrific way that there has ever been to die in the history of mankind. And to think that He died on that cross for you too.

And yes, I wear a simple cross on a chain around my neck -- nobody on it though because Jesus is risen. I chose to do it myself without any other influence other than I wanted to openly declare that I am Jesus’ follower – read Romans 10:9-10 if you don’t understand (you probably still won’t).

You don’t have a clue about what you’re talking about. You say you were a believer at one time. Well I’ve got news for you…you never were!

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

So all things pagan are holy to Christians?

Do you also believe that if the people who burned their babies alive at the altar of molech, as long as they claim that their pagan offering is to the most Holy God, that purifies the paganism in God's eyes?

You've never really dug into the origins of the idols celebrated by Christians.

Or maybe more like it, you couldn't care less about the many ungodly symbols that you hold as sacred.

Christiandom seeks to make God in man's image, instead of man made in God's image.

Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois

You don’t even know me, yet you make broad accusations of me being pagan and celebrating idols and ungodly symbols that I supposedly hold sacred. You don’t have a clue! I only worship the one true God and I know you don’t believe that even though you don’t even know what I believe. But guess what…I don’t even care because ALL my beliefs are biblical – which is the OT and NT – whether you want to believe it or not. I’m getting REAL close to shaking the dust from my feet with you mister.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

You make me think of the Wizard of Oz when the curtain came down.

Your threat of magic fairy dust should not be used as an excuse to cut and run.

If you can't run with the horses, how do you ever intend on running with just a man?

Answer this...can you give a brief history of the cross?

Here's a start, it was a symbol of a certain ancient people's before Jesus.

Rose42

Uh...no that is a broad sweeping generalization that is pretty meaningless and dishonest. I don't know any Christian who thinks a cross is a "holy trinket" nor do they worship any symbol.

Christ offends you - I get it. But you don't have to be like everyone else and just make up crap. In Christianity the cross represents Christ's crucifixion not a pagan symbol. Its irrelevant if it had been used as a pagan symbol before. Christ was crucified on a cross.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

I already read that from you. It seems as though you believe that ancient paganism can somehow be made as acceptable in your religious life.

Maybe in your religion anything pagan can be cleaned up with a Christian spit shine and soften God's eternal word against such things.

Very strange that the very God who does not change his mind, changed his mind.

The mean old Testament God laid down the impossible mission of righteous living.

And the new Testament God is a merciful ruler who died to get rid of the perpetual laws of holy conduct.

How can those two different personalities live in unison in one being.?

Rose42

Wrong. Oh so wrong because you are not applying some common sense. You are mocking Christ's crucifixion. Or did Jesus himself think he would copy the pagans and use a cross? Your premise is silly.



He didn't. You claimed you were a Christian yet don't understand how Christ fulfilled the law. His coming was foretold in the OT. It was preordained. God never changed his mind. You are manufacturing reasons for your rejection.



Again, dead wrong. And if you can follow the law then you are a perfect being. Good luck with that.

Jesus spoke more about punishment than he did about heaven. Numerous times he said the way was difficult. He was killed because his messaged offended the religious leaders at the time - as it offends you though you may not acknowledge it.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Your judgement of me is way off the mark.

We believe in two "different" religion's.

If Christianity isn't different, why did the church fathers take five centuries to decide New dogma?

One point that I'd like to make.

You said that the Christian writers didn't mistranslate certain Jewish scriptures.

That, that was just my opinion.

And unfortunately, there's no way to successfully convince you to check into my claim of mistranslated text that changed the context of prophecies.

One thing that helped remove the lifelong Christian blinders that I boldly wore, was to get all of the evidence and compare it with what I accepted on faith with actual historical facts.

And allow me to say, just because we disagree on God's word to eternal life, I in no way deem myself ahead of you in that quest of eternal life.

One interesting Greek passage seems to fit here...Matthew 5:17 thru 19..................

17..Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or Prophets, I have not come to abolish but to fulfill them.

18..For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the law until everything is accomplished.

19..So then whoever breaks the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the Kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Rose, did you notice that in verse 18...it says until "heaven and earth pass away."

Heaven and earth haven't passed away.

Rose42

I have checked before. You are not the first to claim it and have that opinion. Numerous denominations have differences on some interpretations except when it comes to salvation.



First, I don't know your heart and I don't consider anyone better than anyone else for none of us are. I still maintain you never really believed - Christ was never in your heart which is why you left. I would say the same kind of think to anyone who claimed belief in God but not Christ and then turned away - that God was never in their heart to begin with.



I suggest you look into what it means that Christ fulfilled the law. Those verses don't mean what you want them to mean.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

May I kindly ask if you might enlighten me on the meaning of Matthew 5 verse 18, please?

I appreciate your patience.

Rose42

He is speaking of moral law. That will not change.

Rose42

What do you believe it means?

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

What's the difference between moral law and the ten commandments?.

Rose42

I know what you're getting at. You tell me. You're not going to convince me that Jesus wasn't the Messiah or that God changed in Christianity.