WhatIt'sWorth Loc: Methane Sea, Jupiter

Tell it!!

Tell it!!



THAT'S THE GOD PLANNED IT!


http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=%22way+god+planned+it+billy+preston%22&FORM=VIRE1#vie...


Why can't we be humble
Like the good lord say
He promised to exault us
But no-one is away
How men be so greedy
When there's so much left?
All things are God given
And they all have been blessed
That's the way God planned it
That's the way God wants it to be, be
That's the way God planned it
That's the way God wants it to be, be
Let not your heart be troubled
Let mourning sobbing cease
Learn to help one another
And live in perfect peace
If we'd just be humbler
Like the good lord say
He promised to exault us
But love is the way
That's the way God planned it
That's the way God wants it to be, be
You better believe me
That's the way God planned it
That's the way God wants it to be, be
I hope you get this message
Where you won't others will
You don't understand me
But I'll love you still
That's the way God planned it
That's the way God wants it to be, be

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

And you wonder why you are alone on many things. Evidently the contradictions haven't stopped millions of claiming Christ as Savior; hospitals, schools, churches, 1,000's of charities from being instituted in His Name. And most if not all of these entities either possess or pass out Bibles. So what is your point?

You say your belief is not based on scripture any more but life's experiences; have you experienced every experience there is?

I

WhatIt'sWorth Loc: Methane Sea, Jupiter

"hospitals, schools, churches, 1,000's of charities"

Yes, this called to mind all the multitudes of

Muslim Soup Kitchens, Food Banks, charity hospitals various Islamic charities and such

which Americans literally STUMBLE OVER in every city, and of course which fill the world with the humanitarian efforts of "the Peaceful religion of Islam"

but why is Rumitoid being hoisted on a petard for pointing out t***hs that the Bible contains contradictions?

What is wrong with EXPERIENCE?

I do not come from a tradition of "Sola Scriptura" or "Inerrancy" --

these are RELATIVELY NEW CONCEPTS in the history of Christianity -- man-made stuff of relatively recent origin comapared to 2000 years of Christian history

rather than worshipping a BOOK -- or a COLLECTION OF BOOKS

(whose scope is not even today agreed upon by main branches of Christianity such as Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodox and Coptic...)

you have alluded to it yerself, Army -- it is a "present in the world Holy Spirit" - and a risen Christ which is the object of our worship --

NOT a "book" who some people claim "inerrancy" concerning - (yet do not seem to know the contents of as well as heretics like myself)

who freely admit "it contains contradictions/discrepancies/inconsistencies - but such things do not undermine Faith in the last analysis

"Scripture - Reason - Experience - Tradition"

this is the 'real deal' rather than "sola scriptura" and a view of the bible which is like a tree standing stiff in a strong wind that will break to it rather than bend in the wind as nature has for LIVING trees...

The "Wesleyan Quadrilateral" of being guided by Scripture-Reason-Experience-Tradition, is, granted - just a DESCRIPTION - albeit a pretty good one

It is not something "declared" by John Wesley himself -- it was in fact coined by a fairly recent theologian, Albert Outler in the 60's; - who reflected on what Wesley thought on things and summarized this 4-way guide

The four "Legs" of the so-called "Wesleyan Quadrilateral" all support each other and mutually reinforce each other.

Do you think your theological views are free from TRADITION?

Bah - I submit that your TRADITION establishes the scope of your SCRIPTURE

(I e, - if you were Catholic or Greek Orthodox, your Bible would be bigger -- if you were jewish like ginnyt yer "bible" would be smaller)

-- that your REASON is involved in even the very process of comprehending "Scripture" - that your EXPERIENCE is a valid human part of your response/comprehension of/to God

Scripture/Reason/Experience/Tradition

Know it.

Live it.

Or else just continue to demonize those such as Rumitoid and myself who admit the Bible contains errors -- yet believe in the broad picture of a Risen Lord and a guiding Holy Spirit --

these things make it come down to a choice between

a DEAD BOOK or a LIVING GOD

ya pays ya money, and ya takes ya choice

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

Your concept of not worshiping the book is a valid one. I just happen to believe that the main source of t***h are the scriptures and nature.

The days of new revelation have ceased unless one is to believe some of the T.V. s**mmers that rip folks off by their focusing on a few cherry picked verses about healing and money.

What is between Rumi and myself should stay between him and myself. I do apologize to him and everyone else who may have read my remarks to him. Not because of the remarks but because I usually do not debate spiritual matters on an open forum but rather keep the conservation in PM's. I really do not think it is good for Christians to debate in front of Atheists or non-believers or even those who are new to the faith.

I have a problem with understanding you calling yourself a heretic and yet claiming such high knowledge of scripture and the history of Wesley.

I have no qualms about people disagreeing with the Bible and I really have many questions that I have not come to grips with. Questions yes, doubts no.

What would the world be if the Word of God had been left to word of moth, tradition, experience? There would be more doubt than there is now with the written word.

Are you a student of Process Theology? If so, I understand the stand you are thinking. I would suggest a book by AW Tozer entitled, "The Knowledge of the Holy." He speaks of the many attributes of God.

One whose base attributes are Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence need not worry what His created beings says or thinks about the accuracy of His Word.

I believe it was the Atheists Voltaire who made the remark that within 100 years the Bible and Christianity would be a dead and forgotten issue. That is not an exact quote, but close.

The fact is, there is now a Christian book store that is part of his old home.

I h**e confrontation, I really do, I h**e rude behavior in anyone. So I am not trying to be disagreeable just to disagree.

However, many have fallen from great heights by claiming to be serious but have been found to be sincerely wrong. If you ever listen to Jim Baker, Richard Dortch, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Jones and others; these were people who said they were led by the Spirit and in each and every case there has been many many people misled and have lost great amounts of money and had their faith destroyed by following the so-called self experience with God.

I suppose I am not communicating on your much higher level of intelligence than I but I do stand by the Bible the way it is and will take it as a guide to my salvation, my beliefs, faith, and eternal destiny. Please try to understand, I hear what you and Rumi are saying, but it doesn't make a jot or tittle's difference in my belief in Gods Word.

WhatIt'sWorth Loc: Methane Sea, Jupiter

I can assure you that "I call myself a heretic" only in JEST.

Heresy involves false notions of the nature and person of Christ - I believe I have none.

I do not mean to jump into sumpn between you and Rumi - I apologize if it seems so.

There is much discussion on a purely Christian board I go to about Paul -- which does he champion MORE ? -- the LIBERTY which a Christian has under the new covenant -- or the regard for a 'weaker brother' that one might "cause to stumble" -- it is not exactly a totally easy question.

Among adults - I should not have to worry about shattering some child's illusion that there is a real Santa Claus, but at what point can I be free to NOT WALK ON EGGSHELLS about disalussioning some child's hopes -- and move on to discussions where people can eat meat and digest realities that might "undermine" others?

It is not an easy question -- I really don't know where to shut up and when to speak up the more I think about it...

but I think a passage in galatians puts it all into focus

"Stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with a yoke of bondage, For brethren, we have been called unto Liberty - only use not Liberty for an occasion to the Flesh, but by Love serve one another'

Easy for Paul to say - not really easy to live.

If you pray for me - pray that I may present this idea with clarity on that other exclusively Christian board -- for I would really seek guidance on "all things lawful but not all things expedient".

I have tried to start a thread 3 times on that other board -- always wound up deleting and never doing anything.

I claim no high intelligence, I have just lived a long time with seeing paradoxes and it not affecting the major things of faith as I understand it

"Scriptures and Nature" - that is good - Romans ch 1 seems to really exalt "natural theology"

man inexcusable because what can be known of God can be seen in created world

WhatIt'sWorth Loc: Methane Sea, Jupiter

Oh, I really do not know about "Process Theology" or all these Rev Jim's that you mention

and although I have not read that particular Tozer book -- I think I read some other book by A W Tozer and liked it - but long ago and brain gets fuzzy with time

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

I think perhaps we are getting to understand each other better. As the old adage goes there is more than one way to skin a cat. We are free to disagree on the non-essentials but I think we agree on the essentials.

The verse you quoted by Paul is one of my 100 favorites. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has set you free.

I would almost beg you to read Tozers book on The Knowledge of The Holy. It has given me a perspective concerning the Majesty and Sovereignty of God that I have taken for granted so sad for my loss. Hopefully this will help me makeup for my many inadequacies.

I am glad that we may be reaching a point of civil discussion. I also would suggest you type what is process theology in your search engine. I think you will be shocked.

WhatIt'sWorth Loc: Methane Sea, Jupiter

in essentials - unity

in non-essentials - liberty

in all things - charity

(I think that was Rupert Meldenius, but usually credited to someone else.)

http://moravianarchives.org/images/pdfs/Essentials-Schultze.pdf


I found the Tozer book online.

I will see about the "process theology"

No Bible reader is "higher" than another. At Christian Forums, there are PHD's and Seminary grads; I am not phased by credentials, I have attained a rapport with various levels of people

WhatIt'sWorth Loc: Methane Sea, Jupiter

"The Christ of process theology does not represent a hypostasis of divine and human personae"

Uh - as said -- heresy involves a false concept of the nature and person of Christ.

Alfred North Whitehead? Bertrand Russell?

guffaw!! rofl!!

Theology based on the Philosophy of those? well -

"nuthin from nuthin leaves nuthin"

which is a good Billy Preston song, but poor theology

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

We part friends.. :thumbup:

thedrakester

The contradictions are there and noted by devout Christian scholars. Yes, they are only seeming contradictions but to ignore their existence leaves you defenseless against an attack at that level.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

That is pretty........ tendentious of you. Were you aware that there are scholars that are not Christian? I happen to know a few people that are Gnostic and know much more than 99.9 percent of the Christians on this site. They are not Pauline Christians, which is the Christianity practiced by the majority of Christians on this site. They walk and teach the works and teaching of Jesus. Perhaps this was just poor word se******n on your part.

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

True, but as I tried to say, that does nothing to reduce the power and purpose of the book.

rumitoid

Did you know that the gnostic gospels were at least a century or two after Paul and the synoptic writings?

Betta

You have a good point there. A point that I have always gone by. Proverbs 3:5 comes to mind which says in part "...and lean not unto thine own understanding." It is not wise to consult man on the mysteries of God. I go straight to God Himself to get answers. Go anywhere else and all you get is man's misinterpretation.