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The Bible actually does contradict itself– but that’s okay.
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Sep 6, 2014 14:09:30   #
rumitoid
 
jetson wrote:
authentic eye witness testimony on

No where in the Bible have I found a contradiction in the Bible. If you have one, what is it?


There are a noted 143 by Christian Bible scholars. Many atheists and people of other faiths are aware of these many inconsistencies. If we simply read, say, a police blotter where there were two eyewitnesses and one described the suspect as short and the other tall, we have an apparent contradiction. How could both be right? What is not in the report is that the first witness is 6'7" and the other 5'4". From their respective perspectives, the seeming contradiction is resolved.

Here are the four Gospel accounts of the Resurrection:


Women. In the Synoptic Gospels, Mary Magdalene and other women go to the tomb. In John's account, Mary Magdalene goes alone.

Appearance to the women. In Matthew 28:9, Jesus appears to the women before they tell the disciples. In John 20:13-17, Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene (also in the longer ending of Mark) -- after she reports to the disciples. In Mark, the women tell no one of what they had seen.

Number of angels. In Matthew and Mark one angel appears; in Luke and John there are two angels.

Purpose of the women's visit. In Matthew they go to "look at" the tomb. In Mark and Luke they bring spices to anoint Jesus' body. In John the anointing took place on Friday night and no purpose for Mary's visit is given.

Grave clothes. In Matthew and Mark, Jesus is wrapped in a large linen shroud (sidr&#333;n). In John 19:40; 20:5-7 and Luke 24:12, Jesus is wrapped in strips of linen (othonion).

Location. In Matthew and Mark, Jesus' resurrection appearances are in Galilee, while Luke only records appearances in the vicinity of Jerusalem.1

Do you see the inconsistencies?

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Sep 6, 2014 14:48:55   #
Twilight
 
if rumitoid is trying to be a motorcycle jockey or a preacher and is confusing Caboose, what is caboose trying to be with the LONGGGGG post ? an expert? on what?

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Sep 6, 2014 15:54:30   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Hello Twilight,

Caboose rarely post or provide comments that are too long, even using the average attention span of people, which is 8 seconds, still at a steady decline from years past to the point that a goldfish has a longer attention span of 9 seconds. Caboose's responses are almost always less than 111 words. The average reader can hold onto a thought for at least that many words. His ideas are clear and he comes directly to the point. At times, a response may appear longer due to the "reply" option used. If the comment to which they respond is very long, then it will appear as though they are taking up an entire page with their comment, as happened on this thread. So, cut Caboose some slack, it was not he that prepared the very long comment.


I am the one that is guilty of very long responses. I do realize that my comments are only read in their entirety by less than 6 percent of OPP participants. It is the price of giving a well rounded and clear response to topics. Most questions are not simply yes or no, or you are an i***t, or some other rubbish. Each topic where I respond, I think of the poster as an equal, and as such deserve a well prepared and scholarly response to their topic. Sorry, to have bored you with the details in my previous posts, but to be honest, I do not see a future where my responses will be as curt as Yes, No, Go to Hell, You are....... So, my advice, read them if you wish to hear an alternative or why I agree or disagree; or simply ignore me and move on to the other replies.


Twilight wrote:
if rumitoid is trying to be a motorcycle jockey or a preacher and is confusing Caboose, what is caboose trying to be with the LONGGGGG post ? an expert? on what?

Reply
 
 
Sep 6, 2014 20:32:03   #
jetson
 
rumitoid wrote:
There are a noted 143 by Christian Bible scholars. Many atheists and people of other faiths are aware of these many inconsistencies. If we simply read, say, a police blotter where there were two eyewitnesses and one described the suspect as short and the other tall, we have an apparent contradiction. How could both be right? What is not in the report is that the first witness is 6'7" and the other 5'4". From their respective perspectives, the seeming contradiction is resolved.

Here are the four Gospel accounts of the Resurrection:


Women. In the Synoptic Gospels, Mary Magdalene and other women go to the tomb. In John's account, Mary Magdalene goes alone.

Appearance to the women. In Matthew 28:9, Jesus appears to the women before they tell the disciples. In John 20:13-17, Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene (also in the longer ending of Mark) -- after she reports to the disciples. In Mark, the women tell no one of what they had seen.

Number of angels. In Matthew and Mark one angel appears; in Luke and John there are two angels.

Purpose of the women's visit. In Matthew they go to "look at" the tomb. In Mark and Luke they bring spices to anoint Jesus' body. In John the anointing took place on Friday night and no purpose for Mary's visit is given.

Grave clothes. In Matthew and Mark, Jesus is wrapped in a large linen shroud (sidr&#333;n). In John 19:40; 20:5-7 and Luke 24:12, Jesus is wrapped in strips of linen (othonion).

Location. In Matthew and Mark, Jesus' resurrection appearances are in Galilee, while Luke only records appearances in the vicinity of Jerusalem.1

Do you see the inconsistencies?
There are a noted 143 by Christian Bible scholars.... (show quote)


These are only the different views of Christ's resurrection. Does not change the meaning of the occasion at all. Mary M. and the other Mary were there and when they gave the account of it to the other disciples they were writing under memory of what the two women saw and did and told them. Like the account of two thieves that died with Christ. One said the two thieves railed at Christ. The other accounts said, one thief said, remember me in thy Kingdom. He must have seen something in Christ that made a believer in Him. Some writers don't give complete records as others.

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Sep 7, 2014 00:10:28   #
numenian
 
jetson wrote:
These are only the different views of Christ's resurrection. Does not change the meaning of the occasion at all. Mary M. and the other Mary were there and when they gave the account of it to the other disciples they were writing under memory of what the two women saw and did and told them. Like the account of two thieves that died with Christ. One said the two thieves railed at Christ. The other accounts said, one thief said, remember me in thy Kingdom. He must have seen something in Christ that made a believer in Him. Some writers don't give complete records as others.
These are only the different views of Christ's res... (show quote)


Jetson, account for all inconsistencies noted by rumitoid or admit either there are inconsistencies and you cannot explain them.

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Sep 7, 2014 05:00:03   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Sorry, but exactly what are you asking to be done? Go through each of the statements and disprove what is written? I think that Jetson gave the only explanation possible. Are the writing of the Apostles inaccurate, I say no. They wrote what they thought they knew. Their writings were based on their own traditions, what they heard, and what they considered to be germane to accounting for the incidents. Not omission or inconsistencies, but rather exercising their license to their art. Consider that each had a writing style, one was long winded and added texture to their work, while another was minimalist. What he wrote was short and sweet. Just different views of different authors. I do not see a conflict, because the end product was accounts of an event, the death and resurrection. And when you get down to it, does it matter which Mary went to the tomb? Or does it matter than Jesus was k**led, he was not in the grave, he and his teaching transcended death?

numenian wrote:
Jetson, account for all inconsistencies noted by rumitoid or admit either there are inconsistencies and you cannot explain them.

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Sep 7, 2014 08:07:39   #
Caboose Loc: South Carolina
 
ginnyt wrote:
Caboose,

I was not pointing out faults. I was pointing out a list that is managed and argued by Muslims. I guess I should have taken more time to explain that Islam is at war with the rest of the world. They are trying to find any grounds to undermine Christianity and one of their weapons is to use the Bible and what may superficially appear as inaccuracies. I say that there are words, key words, that have several meaning in Hebrew, Latin, and Greek and at times the wrong t***slation was made which allows for people to say there are contradictions. That is why I say there are inconsistencies and no contradictions. If my intent was not conveyed, I apologize. Again, I do not find fault in the Bible or with Christians. I find posts that seem to be benign but having an undertone that fights for Muslim beliefs as dangerous.

Please read my opening to the list again. I said “Caboose,

For the past 11 years the Muslim nation has been slowly adding this into our culture. They have several web sites and their literature they pass out has over 100 inconsistencies between the old testament and the new. "Inconsistencies" does not necessarily mean "contradictions." Islam sees all of the following as contradictions.”

Removing the long list in the middle, I concluded with “Now one must consider that they spent much time in compiling the "issues" they have found. In reality, it is usually a mist***slation of words. The sad part of this, even those who are Christians are falling for their line of thinking. They are not considering that the original texts were not in English. Most people do not speak multiple languages and even more important, even those that do hesitate to go back through the original documents and read to understand in the language the Bible was written. I did not do the leg work on each of these passages, I copied them off of a document I was given by a Muslim. I did look each verse up, in original text and what is written in our bible, and found that the problem is t***slation.”
Caboose, br br I was not pointing out faults. I ... (show quote)


Sorry Miss Jenny, sounded the other way.

Reply
 
 
Sep 7, 2014 11:32:37   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
No problem. I can see how it was confusing. I should have been clearer in my opening remarks regarding where I stand on the issue.

Caboose wrote:
Sorry Miss Jenny, sounded the other way.

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Sep 7, 2014 12:00:06   #
rich boise Loc: Idaho
 
You hit the nail on the head this time! Anyone who "just reads" the Bible will find these inaccuracies and contradictions. Those who "study" discover that these apparent contradictions are due to our lack of understanding and not inherent in the Bible. Those who have the Holy Spirit to guide them to all t***h start to understand the word of God as they continue to study and to walk with Jesus.
rumitoid wrote:
I did not say the Bible was wrong; I said that there were contradictions and historical inaccuracies that anyone who regularly just reads, never mind studies, are aware of. I am not preaching: I am making a comment on scripture.

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Sep 7, 2014 12:02:01   #
rich boise Loc: Idaho
 
Chuck Swindoll is a very good preacher and he rides (or at least used to).
Off topic but just a little light humor or irony.
Caboose wrote:
Are you trying to preach or be a motorcycle rider? What is your qualifications to preach and tell us the Bible is wrong?

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Sep 7, 2014 17:47:22   #
rumitoid
 
jetson wrote:
These are only the different views of Christ's resurrection. Does not change the meaning of the occasion at all. Mary M. and the other Mary were there and when they gave the account of it to the other disciples they were writing under memory of what the two women saw and did and told them. Like the account of two thieves that died with Christ. One said the two thieves railed at Christ. The other accounts said, one thief said, remember me in thy Kingdom. He must have seen something in Christ that made a believer in Him. Some writers don't give complete records as others.
These are only the different views of Christ's res... (show quote)


I never said these inconsistencies or seeming contradictions could not be adequately explained to a Christian's satisfaction, but they are there on the surface and need to be addressed to responsibly witness to unbelievers.

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Sep 7, 2014 19:39:33   #
rich boise Loc: Idaho
 
Yah. You think maybe God wants us to spend some time make some effort to get to know Him?
rumitoid wrote:
I never said these inconsistencies or seeming contradictions could not be adequately explained to a Christian's satisfaction, but they are there on the surface and need to be addressed to responsibly witness to unbelievers.

Reply
Sep 7, 2014 21:38:09   #
rumitoid
 
rich boise wrote:
Chuck Swindoll is a very good preacher and he rides (or at least used to).
Off topic but just a little light humor or irony.


Lol, thank you; it's been a rough ride.

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Sep 7, 2014 21:39:06   #
rumitoid
 
rich boise wrote:
Yah. You think maybe God wants us to spend some time make some effort to get to know Him?


Amen!

Reply
Sep 9, 2014 01:09:27   #
rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.
 
jetson wrote:
How a web we weave to deceive. I check out about 15 of these twisted scriptures and see they are all lies. I decided not to waste my time on all of this garbage. I admit there was one that threw me and I had to ask the Holy Spirit to give me the answer. That was he one about Abram being born when Terah was 70 years old and died at the age of 205. Then the verses stated Abram left Haran at the age of 75 and went forward to the promise land. No where does it state that Terah died before Abram left with Lot and his wife. The answer the Holy Spirit gave me was that Terah was still alive, but went no farther with Abram than Haran. The Bible even states that Terah was taking his family to the promise land, but Haran was as far as he got. This was a promise by God to Abram. Peter said, there will be those that twist the scripture to their own destruction. If anyone has trouble with these twisted scriptures let me know and maybe I can help. Thanks Jetson
How a web we weave to deceive. I check out about ... (show quote)

This is meant for Rumi-
You forgot when after Jesus was wipped a scarlet robe was put on him by the soldiers. Then in another gospel it says 'purple' robe. Hummmm. Maybe cause purple was the color of royal attire back then, such as herods clothes and the old king herod the great is who set out to k**l Jesus first as a baby. That second account is showing where the planned murder actually began, and by who- the herods.

Sarah was Abraham's neice, not sister. She was the dghtr of Abrahams dead brother Haran, who died premature in his land named after him. At that time Sarah went by her hebrew name Iscah. Lot was Sarahs brother. Lot was righetous, his daughters were just brought up under the peoples influence in Soddom. Scriptue tells you the customs of families back then when one died with his own family. Just need to read it rather than right a book of mockeries as you did.

If the Bibles to tough for you to understand, and your simply out to make a mockery of it: well, you should stick with Jaques Ellul.
The Lord moves many on this forum to his t***hs 'and the understandings of it.
If not you, then give it up because your awefully injurous to the Sacred Text of God the Father, and I dont believe its out of innocents.

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