Anvil

So can you enter the your local courthouse to talk to the County Clerk without a mask?

Rose42

I understood you weren’t supporting tyranny. And I agree with your point that a lot of people that don’t engage would be content with a tyranny they approve of.

straightUp Loc: California

You can try it without breaking the law... They might refuse service just like any other business, but that's because services, whether public or private don't want to participate in the spread. These are choices made by those providing the service. It's got nothing to do with law.

You DO realize we're in a p******c, right?

EDIT: Since you're not doing it, I went ahead and looked at the laws and it appears that I may need to correct myself. I was focusing on the lack of any federal mandate on masks and ANY mandate on v*****es. However, lower levels of government HAVE been issuing orders to follow CDC guidelines on social distancing and masks.

I guess it's one of those things where something you would do anyway happens to be mandated and it's hardly noticeable because you're doing it on your own choice anyway. It's like how I make the personal choice not to murder people. When I don't, it's never because it's actually against the law.

So the question now gets back to the original post... Do these orders from local governments amount to an infringement on your civil liberties? On first glance, I would say not. Wearing a mask doesn't prevent me from expressing my views or obstruct me from anything I need to do.

I really don't see the problem here. Businesses have always enforced their own "no shirt, no service" policies and I never hear anyone complain about that. Again, there *IS* a p******c... wearing masks to slow down the spread while people get v******ted makes a lot of sense to me.

I will say one thing... the resistance to CDC guidelines is proving to the world that if anyone wants to destroy the United States of America, biological warfare would be the way to go. One shot from afar and they can watch the ship sink as everyone on board is too busy beating each other up to man the lifeboats.

Anvil

Ah - so you mean a government mandated requirement is not a law?

EmilyD

"P******c" means that there is a v***s that occurs "over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affecting a significant proportion of the population....an outbreak." ~Merriam Webster. That's all that word means. What it does NOT mean is that it is a death sentence. In fact, this p******c has an overall recovery rate of 97.8% in the United States. Other countries have different recovery rates.

The fearmongering that our media, the Democrats and Big Pharma have used to promote the feeling that we better "do something" or we are going to die has been one of the biggest h**xes this country has ever seen. Researchers and scientists do not know what the long-term affects of either the v***s, or the v*****e will be.

I highly recommend that people research the potential side effects, both mild and severe, before they make the decision to get this untested, unapproved, non-traditional gene therapy (m**A) inoculation, that affects our DNA - possibly for the rest of their lives!

I also suggest they read about m**A (messenger-RNA)...it gets into every cell of their body, it’s almost unstoppable. It affects, and can possibly destroy, the heart, or the spleen, or the lungs, or the liver...anything in the body.... because the m**A is expressing its protein into every single cell.....this is something the researchers and scientists DO know.

straightUp Loc: California

Read my edit.

Anvil

Thank you

straightUp Loc: California

Agreed.


Again, we have a slightly different view on this. As for myself and the people I know who agree with me, we are not hearing the "or you're going to die" part. I think that's coming from the dramarama of right-wing resistance and I guess that makes sense because "self-interest" is the engine of right-wing thinking. On the left side, there is more inclination to put community first and so the concern for others comes into view.

Emily, people HAVE died from C****-**.

Maybe the odds of YOU dying from it are low, but the odds of other people in the community dying from it are obviously high enough. To be honest, I think this is probably the fundamental difference between factions on this issue. People who seem more aligned with the left tend to follow guidelines out of a concern for others and for the American community as a whole, while people, who tend to be aligned with the right are all pissed off that they have to wear a mask, insisting that they should have the right to take responsibility for their own health.


Actually, I have... I found out that there is no indication that m**A as any affect or even touches your DNA, although I've seen plenty of unsubstantiated claims from truck drivers and plumbers that say it does. I prefer to trust people with medical degrees (personal decision). P****r has officially stated that m**A does NOT touch your DNA and so far there have not been any challenges from the medical sector to the contrary.

The P****r v*****e (with the m**A) HAS actually been tested, though I will agree with your concern because they haven't been "fully tested" as the five years it takes to really know for sure hasn't elapsed yet. This is why the FDA has indeed, approved the v*****e under the EUA (e*******y use a***********n) rules. It's not a full standard approval because of the time, but it IS a p******c and since people ARE dying from it AND there's no alternatives, we have the EUA.

I do have to laugh though... All these people who don't trust the government, all of a sudden have this faith in the FDA. I guess it suites the argument.

I corrected myself on the issue of mandated masks, but so far I have not seen any proof that v*****es are being mandated by any government. That doesn't mean that aren't pulling the wool over our eyes about it, but I can't see the motivation for that either and when I look around, I see the whole world struggling with this p******c, not just us. So if there's a conspiracy, it would have to be on a global scale that involves every single country on earth even the ones waging war on each other.

I'd say the odds are pretty slim.

In the meantime, my daughter is graduating from UCSD in June and I want to be there to see it which they won't let me do without being v******ted. So, yes - I read the literature on this v*****e. I focused mostly on the P****r v*****e and found a place where I can get that one (or two) specifically.

Is there a risk? Of course there is but it appears the odds of adverse effects are pretty damned low, so I'm willing to take that risk to see my daughter graduate. After almost 56 years of living in America where "FDA approved" food has a global reputation for causing health issues and being genetically modified. I'm really not THAT worried about it.



I've seen reports that contradict some of what you are saying here. So if you trust your sources, I would appreciate a link.

I can't denigrate the concern that people have about the v*****es and I suppose that's why they aren't mandated by the government either. I don't care if everyone gets v******ted either because it doesn't actually prevent the spread, it just gives individuals a better chance of surviving it and I think everyone should be able to make that choice for themselves. Once everyone has been given the *opportunity* to protect themselves, I'd like to see the mask mandates rolled back. Until that happens I'll support the mandates to slow the spread and to those who refuse or resist... all I can say is... try thinking of others.

RascalRiley Loc: Somewhere south of Detroit

EmilyD

No, I don't think I will pass on the research I have done to you. I suspect it will be met with criticism, and you will try to discredit it, sentence by sentence.

I don't want to take the time to respond to your piecemeal tearing apart of my comment above either....except that I disagree with about 95% of it.

straightUp Loc: California

Well, that's helpful. Thank you for telling me that I'm making a big mistake then refusing to show me the research that brings you to that conclusion.

So are you actually refusing to inform people of the dangers you think you found simply because you don't want your research to be criticized? Or is it that the research doesn't really exist? I'm mean, it's gotta be one or the other.


95% of what? All I did is agree with some of your statements and offer another perspective on your other statements. Are you actually offended that I have a different perspective?

Kitten Courageous Loc: The Derelict Ship Maggie's Revenge

Yes, you do h**e finding out you are wrong.

EmilyD

I'm not interested in getting into a "you're wrong because of this" discussion. You put so nicely that you "offer another perspective" on things when it is more than just another perspective, it is you looking down your nose at me because my perspective does not align with yours...let me see if I can make this clearer:

You said:"As for myself and the people I know who agree with me, we are not hearing the "or you're going to die" part. I think that's coming from the dramarama of right-wing resistance and I guess that makes sense because "self-interest" is the engine of right-wing thinking. On the left side, there is more inclination to put community first and so the concern for others comes into view." Calling what I said "dramarama" and "self-interest right-wing thinking", and that the left is so much better with their community first wonderfulness and the right is selfish is a condescending remark to those who disagree with you (the right).

Responding to my post with "Emily, people HAVE died from C****-**." is also condescending. Of course people have died from it. And people have recovered from it - to the tune of 97.8%. Your comment merely minimizes mine, where both have valid points. Again...condescension.

And your comment: "People who seem more aligned with the left tend to follow guidelines out of a concern for others and for the American community as a whole, while people, who tend to be aligned with the right are all pissed off that they have to wear a mask, insisting that they should have the right to take responsibility for their own health." Again is just an opinion of yours, but it is very condescending...even disrespectful....to those who disagree with you. The left is correct and pleasantly so, following guidelines out of concern for all of America... while the right is pissed off and resentful.

I don't think I need to go on with that. It serves no purpose for me, and putting any more time and effort into this just isn't worth it to me. You obviously think the left is wonderful, concerned, caring thoughtful people, and the right is full of angry, disgruntled uncaring people. I get it.

The research regarding the pros and cons about the v***s and the v*****e are all out there. You can find out information regarding any of it without me doing the research for you.

Good luck.

straightUp Loc: California

I guess we're looking for different things then. I always like a good debate.


You really don't need to make it any clearer - it's clear enough. I get it. You think I'm being a snob. I think maybe I remind you of someone or maybe it's a prejudice; I don't know but there's nothing in my post that would suggest I am.

Keep reading, I'll show you...


That's a complete sentence and a statement on its own that has nothing to do with you. I am speaking for myself and the people that I know agree with me [because they told me they do]. I already know there is only a slight chance C****-** could k**l me, so why would the whole "or you're going to die" thing make any sense to me?


I'll stop before the conjunction to say that I am once again qualifying this as my *perspective*... that's what the two words at the start of the sentence means.


Ah... THIS is the part that got ya, huh? Yeah... that was a connect there. Look, again - it's my perspective - my opinion, as I had clearly stated. It's honestly my own personal best guess on why people on the right appear to be making p******c-related decisions based on whether or not it's a threat to them personally.


Where did I say the left is "better"? Where did I say that Emily? Are you assuming that I think community-first is better? What if I told you that isn't what I think at all?

Just so you know, I think everything is relative and the universe is dynamic so for me self-interest vs community depends on the situation. The point wasn't to say my view is "better". The point was to suggest the focus on self-interest may explain a person's reaction to the efforts to contain C****-**.


Again you accuse me of something I am not guilty of. Context was set by the preceding sentence. Here it is in context...

"On the left side, there is more inclination to put community first and so the concern for others comes into view.

Emily, people HAVE died from C****-**."

I'm not suggesting you don't know that. I'm validating the concern we have for others.


OK, look... First of all, yes - an opinion but one that is based on observation and i'll admit that I characterized the right in a somewhat insulting way, but let me point out the context that I feel you aren't getting here.

For those of us who believe what Dr F***i and company are telling us, people who refuse and resist the guidelines are effectively k*****g people. I know that's steep. But think about it... there is a race between the p******c and the v*****es. While pharmaceuticals are delivering v*****es as fast as they can, the government is trying to get the people to slow down the spread by handing out guidelines. If corruption and deceit did not exist, this is exactly the way it would work.

When people ignore the guidelines because they're willing to take the odds at 97% that it won't k**l them personally, they are inadvertently allowing the p******c to spread. And for every new infection the dice is rolled again.

So imagine from my perspective, being lectured on manners by someone who appears to be an accomplice to what I consider an unintentional genocide. Considering this, I think I've been rather polite.


You got most of it right. I never said the left is correct though, or pleasant for that matter. ;) But yes, following guidelines out of a concern for all of America... absolutely! ...At least, *I* am... along with the the people who I know agree with me.

And is the right pissed off? HELL YES! I've had two social pods during this p******c, my family (liberals) and my band (conservatives) who ARE pissed off and resentful. I know because I'm constantly telling the bass player to "shut up and play his guitar". ;)


Well, it served a purpose for me because whether or not you even read it, I was able to demonstrate that your offense really wasn't called for. So thanks for that.


No, you really don't. I think the left puts more focus on the community and the right puts more focus on the individual, so the concern and the caring is just directed differently. After all, self-interest *IS* a form of concern and caring.


I know I can. And I have.

EmilyD

Semantics.