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God. Also: Religion.
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Feb 22, 2021 08:37:57   #
Rose42
 
JohnCo wrote:
Rose42 wrote:
"Do you? If you have no conscience what will stop you from being a Ted Bundy?"

Then Canuckus Deploracus replied: "Exactly... If morality is an innate part of the human experience then how are we to explain individuals like Bundy???"

As an aside, which may be relevant, I heard that about 5% of people don't empathize. It seems they don't have the normal capacity for it. They don't feel anything like that about other people -- no sympathy, no empathy. I don't know whether it's true or not. It's just something I heard on the radio; some expert, probably a psychologist or sociologist, was talking about it. I was surprised because 5% is a lot; maybe it would mean that 5% of the population is psychopathic and sociopathic.
Rose42 wrote: br "Do you? If you have no cons... (show quote)


They really have no idea though how many it is. I see people on this forum wishing death on others and calling millions stupid because of opinion or unAmerican among other things. Both sides. Do they then only have empathy for those who share their views or when its advantageous to do so?

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Feb 22, 2021 12:24:06   #
JohnCo
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
"At least 5% of the population are psychopaths... ... "

Then Rose42 replied:
'One does not “attain” morality nor is it an “experience”. But everyone has a conscience. If you are a Christian you should know how it works'

Now I write:
People in general (not just Christians) should be familiar with "conscience", although, if some of them are psychopaths, possibly it's also true that some of them are unfamiliar with "conscience".

Development of conscience (from smaller to larger) probably depends partly on things like environment, training, and learning from one's parents. One could learn it from Christianity; I just want to clarify that Christians don't have any monopoly on it and may not even have the best consciences generally.

I believe that even without training most people do have an elementary conscience (similarly as people are "self-aware") and will develop it further if given the chance. I haven't studied the matter much, but I'd say "conscience" tends to be associated with empathy, but also "conscience" is associated with a person wanting to believe that the self is good. It could all flow from logic or maybe all unconsciously just from basic human nature. Also it makes sense in evolutionary terms that people would recognize the value of such things as cooperation, respect, community, and perhaps "love" which does occur whether it's analyzed or not; and such things probably at least "correlate" with both "conscience" and "intelligence".

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Feb 24, 2021 16:44:32   #
JohnCo
 
Rose42 wrote:
They really have no idea though how many it is. I see people on this forum wishing death on others and calling millions stupid because of opinion or unAmerican among other things. Both sides. Do they then only have empathy for those who share their views or when its advantageous to do so?


Yes. They are capable of more, but usually only empathize when it's easy. I'm that way too. But I also have a sense of right, wrong, responsibility, shame, etc. So I try to be a little better than I actually am yet. In this way we all (or most of us) have small empathy and a little bit bigger conscience. In my opinion more intelligent people usually have more empathy and bigger consciences, just as they have more awareness generally. Training (which could be religious) might also help (though religion doesn't always point in the right direction).

I would like to see better secular education. I would like to see comparative religion classes at low levels of education. It would be multicultural; there would be a Muslim describing Islam, a Hindu describing Hinduism, and so on. But my main hope lies in plain old reasoning and observations (which can be secular reasoning and secular observing) that can allow anyone to see that any religion might be helpful in some way and harmful in some other way.

I've been advised oppositely. A person told me that what's good for children is to have one consistent religion, regardless of which religion it is. I disagree with that, because it so often leads to bigotry, which is often harmful. (But if the "one consistent religion" were no religion at all, or if it were an all-encompassing religion, then it might work.) And, when I was a kid, about the senior year in high school if not earlier, I could sense that I wasn't being told a reasonable religion, nor a reasonable patriotism. But I didn't know where to get a better education. Then when I got to college and started meeting people of different backgrounds, that was how I did begin getting a better education, informally.

I haven't been able to make my ideas work thoroughly. My close relative who is a devout religious person seems to be a lot more successful in life, although I think he's slower to understand a few things like, maybe, when not to start a war, and when not to elect people who damage the society or the environment.

A philosophy of "we're right and they're wrong" isn't enough. If you're lucky in where you're born and in what family you're born, it might carry you all through life, and it might be a good life _for_you_, but at the same time it could be damaging lots of other people: your privilege takes away from them. (This "your" is not personal, I just mean anyone in the circumstance.). Your ignorance might allow you to die happy thinking you did everything right.

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