Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Do you associate having a conscience with morality???

Rose42

Do you? If you have no conscience what will stop you from being a Ted Bundy?

JohnCo

When I have been near people I love, and I saw they were sad, then I felt sad because they were sad.

So, I cared how they felt; and I felt some of what they felt. Occasionally I even have been sadder than they actually were, because of how I thought about it.

Wh**ever the scenario (and whether a god is in it or not), one could always argue that ultimately "there is something in it for me" because, just for example, I could feel some emotion about it and therefore it could affect me emotionally. But the more interesting factor is that "I" is not only just the one human being; "I" and "we" and larger groups are on a continuum; the more enlightened person has a bigger sense of meaning which encompasses others -- s/he identifies somewhat with the larger group. This is natural and appropriate. We are not just solitary beings; we are also social beings. The community matters; it lives and does things and it is appropriate to care about its well-being. This ought to be common sense; it doesn't require a god to make it make sense. Some of us can only care about 2 or 3 people (that's a small community right there); some can care about more.

In contrast, it seems there are some people who are not aware that love is worth anything for its own sake. They want to know "what's in it for me". They try to align themselves with the most powerful people and the most powerful god, without much interest in qualities other than power. They try to be "good" so they can get into Heaven and avoid Hell. But, if they have no ability to judge for themselves, they will not know whether the most powerful person, country, or god is really a good one. If God were powerless and could not give you anything, would you still care about God?

Back to your questions: I have a conscience because that is part of the meaning of life for me, and because I have the capacity to have a conscience. I have the capacity to care about other people. And I would do a good thing for someone, because that is meaningful to me. An actual example is that one time an old friend of mine was in financial distress. Knowing that, I lent that person money and also did some free labor for that person. I did it because there was enough relationship between us that it felt meaningful to me to help that person. Both that person and I then felt a little better because of it; and how we felt was intertwined, not just independent of each other. I would not have done it if I did not think it would help that person.

JohnCo

Right.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Exactly... If morality is an innate part of the human experience then how are we to explain individuals like Bundy???

Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois

It's called sin nature and sin.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Sometimes it's better to just hint around the edges, rather than trumpeting one's lack of understanding....

Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois

If you're saying I have a lack of understanding you're sadly mistaken.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

If you have to ask......

JohnCo

Rose42 wrote:
"Do you? If you have no conscience what will stop you from being a Ted Bundy?"

Then Canuckus Deploracus replied: "Exactly... If morality is an innate part of the human experience then how are we to explain individuals like Bundy???"

As an aside, which may be relevant, I heard that about 5% of people don't empathize. It seems they don't have the normal capacity for it. They don't feel anything like that about other people -- no sympathy, no empathy. I don't know whether it's true or not. It's just something I heard on the radio; some expert, probably a psychologist or sociologist, was talking about it. I was surprised because 5% is a lot; maybe it would mean that 5% of the population is psychopathic and sociopathic.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

At least 5% of the population are psychopaths... Many rise to prominent positions in society.... Psychopathy is a spectrum, with the majority being law abiding, well rounded citizens... Who mimic empathy, rather than actually experiencing it...

Sociopaths are far fewer, but for the most part are not dangerous like Bundy...

Morality, if it is universal, is not universally experienced by the human race... And how we view it may vary from culture to culture....

Take p********a for example... Many Americans deplore the idea of a thirteen year old marrying or engaging in sexual relations, nut go back a hundred years and it wasn't unusual... Go back two hundred and it was common...

Morality is an ever shifting goal post, be wary of those who believe they have attained it...

Rose42

When one ignores their conscience it becomes progressively hardened. Not all ignore it to that degree.

Rose42

One does not “attain” morality nor is it an “experience”. But everyone has a conscience. If you are a Christian you should know how it works

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Some individuals are literally born without them...

Rose42

No they aren’t