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Oct 21, 2020 17:49:20   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
RT friend wrote:
...everyone make mistakes, this mistake was Obama's, Carter's, Bushe's, Reagan's and ultimately Nixon for offshoring industry.

In my initial response to your statement, I was focused on the handling of PPE. But I think your statement might deserve a little more consideration...

As much as I blame Trump for his handling of the p******c, there is another component that should be reviewed. The fact that the neoliberal structure of our republic and the commerce around it is woefully incapable of dealing with a p******c.

This is not a good thing to be exposing as the world watches us flounder. Certainly not in the dawn of the age of bio-chemical warfare.

And you are correct... every president from Nixon to Obama can be rightfully burdened with blame. Specifically, the neoliberal mistake spans from Reagan to Obama. During that time, a lot of the national systems erected by progressives like FDR and Eisenhower to provide national security and stability were privatized. Keep in mind, anything privatized is free to offshore wh**ever they want. Taxable profit? Jobs? You name it. Congress has yet to make a law to force companies to contain themselves inside the country and it's unlikely the world will ever see any such law emerge from America, land of the free.

Most other developed nations have a bigger role for public services, such as socialized medicine and socialized education. I know I said the "S-word" twice, so let's just be direct. Yes, these are socialist systems because they are owned and operated by the people by virtue of representative democracy. It's not c*******m... It's democratic socialism. They are not the same thing. Yes, Karl Marx saw socialism as a turn along a path to c*******m but he also saw capitalism as turn along the same path. Fact, is either of these economic theories can be used without ever developing into c*******m.

Fact is... this p******c has really exposed the difference. Germany, considering it's role as a commercial and military hub has had incredible success in limiting the spread of the disease while keeping the economy up and running. Korea as highlighted in the documentary has also been relatively successful. So has France. All these countries have more socialism than we do.

That means... national stockpiles are used for citizens and residents, not sold to other governments. It means medicine can be distributed efficiently without getting bogged down with private sector red tape like insurance claims, etc. It means citizens can still get medical attention even if they lose their job.

We have none of these things because we have been programmed to despise socialism to the point where it's become a Pavlov trigger and we will v**e for whichever representative says he will slay socialism and once elected they will plug right into that neoliberal network and broker deals with private investors that seek new profits from fresh cuts of privatized services.

So our p******c experience is different. Most of our systems are privatized and now. When the p******c reached the point where states started shutting down, those of us that lost our jobs also lost our healthcare coverage. (Not a good thing during a p******c.) We also lost our ability to service our massive student loans.

So, overall - it appears that with regard to the p******c, the citizens of more socialized democracies have fared better than we citizens of less socialized democracies. Not just in terms of stress and finances but in terms of our ability to survive a biological attack.

And this is all without considering Trump at all. In fact, Trump is less neoliberal than any of the previous presidents since Reagan but he is still driven by the same dollar signs, he just isn't in the same gang.

What Trump did was ignore the precedent of the War Powers Act that says a president can order private companies to manufacture products of strategic value and ordered private companies to sell what inventories they had to a foreign power then negotiated prices so the private sector can buy them and SELL them to the highest bidding states.

So, it's still putting citizens at risk for the sake of putting money in the pockets of "buddies" in the private sector, just in a more... brazen way... AND during a time then thousands of Americans are actually dying from that risk.

Reply
Oct 21, 2020 18:23:23   #
Iliamna1
 
straightUp wrote:
In my initial response to your statement, I was focused on the handling of PPE. But I think your statement might deserve a little more consideration...

As much as I blame Trump for his handling of the p******c, there is another component that should be reviewed. The fact that the neoliberal structure of our republic and the commerce around it is woefully incapable of dealing with a p******c.

This is not a good thing to be exposing as the world watches us flounder. Certainly not in the dawn of the age of bio-chemical warfare.

And you are correct... every president from Nixon to Obama can be rightfully burdened with blame. Specifically, the neoliberal mistake spans from Reagan to Obama. During that time, a lot of the national systems erected by progressives like FDR and Eisenhower to provide national security and stability were privatized. Keep in mind, anything privatized is free to offshore wh**ever they want. Taxable profit? Jobs? You name it. Congress has yet to make a law to force companies to contain themselves inside the country and it's unlikely the world will ever see any such law emerge from America, land of the free.

Most other developed nations have a bigger role for public services, such as socialized medicine and socialized education. I know I said the "S-word" twice, so let's just be direct. Yes, these are socialist systems because they are owned and operated by the people by virtue of representative democracy. It's not c*******m... It's democratic socialism. They are not the same thing. Yes, Karl Marx saw socialism as a turn along a path to c*******m but he also saw capitalism as turn along the same path. Fact, is either of these economic theories can be used without ever developing into c*******m.

Fact is... this p******c has really exposed the difference. Germany, considering it's role as a commercial and military hub has had incredible success in limiting the spread of the disease while keeping the economy up and running. Korea as highlighted in the documentary has also been relatively successful. So has France. All these countries have more socialism than we do.

That means... national stockpiles are used for citizens and residents, not sold to other governments. It means medicine can be distributed efficiently without getting bogged down with private sector red tape like insurance claims, etc. It means citizens can still get medical attention even if they lose their job.

We have none of these things because we have been programmed to despise socialism to the point where it's become a Pavlov trigger and we will v**e for whichever representative says he will slay socialism and once elected they will plug right into that neoliberal network and broker deals with private investors that seek new profits from fresh cuts of privatized services.

So our p******c experience is different. Most of our systems are privatized and now. When the p******c reached the point where states started shutting down, those of us that lost our jobs also lost our healthcare coverage. (Not a good thing during a p******c.) We also lost our ability to service our massive student loans.

So, overall - it appears that with regard to the p******c, the citizens of more socialized democracies have fared better than we citizens of less socialized democracies. Not just in terms of stress and finances but in terms of our ability to survive a biological attack.

And this is all without considering Trump at all. In fact, Trump is less neoliberal than any of the previous presidents since Reagan but he is still driven by the same dollar signs, he just isn't in the same gang.

What Trump did was ignore the precedent of the War Powers Act that says a president can order private companies to manufacture products of strategic value and ordered private companies to sell what inventories they had to a foreign power then negotiated prices so the private sector can buy them and SELL them to the highest bidding states.

So, it's still putting citizens at risk for the sake of putting money in the pockets of "buddies" in the private sector, just in a more... brazen way... AND during a time then thousands of Americans are actually dying from that risk.
In my initial response to your statement, I was fo... (show quote)


Have you noticed C***d is surging in European countries and the stats are a secret in Russia. CCP stats, such as they are, cannot be trusted.

Reply
Oct 21, 2020 18:40:26   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
straightUp wrote:
I just watch the documentary "Totally Under Control". This is what happens when a president fires every last expert for disagreeing with his narrative... Filmmakers get access to all those experts and witnesses and together with public records, press releases etc...

I highly recommend watching this documentary...

It just blows my mind how Trump has done so much to screw up the response to the c****a v***s that's it's hard not to wonder if it was all intentional. For anyone asking exactly how Trump screwed up, this documentary really lays out out.

Here are just a few examples.

John Bolton dismantles the Global Heath Security Team set up by the Obama Administration to handle p******cs because... it was established by the Obama Administration.

Chinese government warns Trump about the outbreak found in W***n way back in January. Trump waved that off.

Several cases were found in several states BEFORE Trump decides to limit travel from China... (Not stop travel, but limit travel). American businessmen and tourists were still allowed to travel back to the U.S. bringing infection with them. Obviously, the travel restriction was a political stunt and did nothing to prevent the spread of C***D in the U.S.

CDC develops test kits but they all fail. Germany develops test kits that work and the WHO starts to distribute them to every nation except the U.S. because...

Trump directs the FDC not to approve the WHO test kits. So labs across America, have no way to test while the v***s spreads across the country and around the globe.

Meanwhile, South Korea adopts a test, trace and isolate strategy that winds up controlling the spread, limiting the deaths and preventing an economic shutdown. Trump is still telling the American people not to worry.

During his trip to India in February, Nancy Messonnier a director at the CDC, makes a public announcement to warn the American people that the v***s should not be taken lightly and that the government does NOT have control over the situation. When Trump returned he fired Messonnier.

On February 26, The Trump Administration gave labs the green light to use the part of the CDC test kit that works and to ignore the part that doesn't. The New York Times follow up with stories on the Lost Month. So basically the entire month of February where Trump refused to let American labs use the only test kits available that worked. It's impossible to know how widely the disease spread in that time, but when labs started to test, it became clear that it spread like fire.

As far as I am concerned Trump's actions constitute a high crime and Trump should be tried for endangering the American people without just cause. But it doesn't stop there!

Also in February, Trump initiated the "CS China C***D Procurement Service" where he cleared an exception in this trade war regulations and ordered the top producers of N95 masks and respirators to sell their entire inventories to China. U.S. hospitals were then left with having to import the masks at ten times the cost.

Next, Trump initiates the C****a V***s Supply Chain Task Force and puts Jared Kushner in charge. It turns out the task force was about 10 kids in their early 20's who volunteered to do the work for free using their own personal laptops and e-mail accounts to search for suppliers. They were all forced to sign non-disclosure agreements so they wouldn't spill any beans.

The main philosophy here is that the government can't do anything, so instead the task force leaned on private sector supply chains. As it turns out, the task force hadn't procured anything.

Then the Trump Administration initiated a new plan called Air Bridge, which is basically a plan to subsidize the efforts of private companies to buy and sell personal protection equipment (PPE) such as N95 masks. Here's how it works.

2. Max Kennedy's team (under Trump) would find the PPE and negotiate the lowest price.
3. Private companies would then pay the bill.
4. Federal Government would pay to fly the PPE to the U.S.
5. Then the private companies would sell directly to whoever they want at wh**ever price they want.

Since the federal government failed to provide the needed PPE, the states were forced to search the market for what they needed. State governments were actually bidding on EBay for the PPE they desperately needed.

Now it's starting to make sense. Instead of directing American manufacturers to supply American hospitals with the required PPE, the Trump administration found a way to ship the entire supply to China where American distribution companies could buy it, import it back to the U.S. and sell it to the highest bidder.

If that's not enough of a racket, FEMA started to bid on the equipment thereby increasing the price even more.

Gavin Newsome, governor of California made a direct appeal to the Federal Government and Kushner told Newsome that they would give him a shipment ONLY if he would publicly thank Trump, which of course he did in the interest of saving lives. Why would a president put American lives at risk just to get a governor to publicly thank him?

The documentary also covered the deal with Remdesivir, an experimental drug developed by the government under the Obama Administration and for which the government currently owns the patent. Once again, Trump gives it away to the private sector so they can profit. A company called Gilead now charges $3,000 per patient. (only patients desperate enough to try the experimental drug and with $3,000 to spend can get it) the $3,000 dose only costs Gilead $10 to make.

Meanwhile, Koreans are changing their minds about Americans because while they were able to control the p******c and keep the economy open, Americans were floundering, unable to test for that first critical month, unable to control the spread, largely because Trump was encouraging people to ignore the science and medical teams and eventually states had to start shutting down.

So when it comes down to it. The idea that Trump failed due to incompetency is incorrect. Trump actually succeeded in turning the crisis into a profitable racket for a few corporations and the American people simply became his victims.

This is not an isolated case... I've been pointing out Trump's attacks on the American people since he took office. He was a s**mmer before 2016 and continues to be a s**mmer now, using the p**********l office to victimize the American people.

The only people that will v**e for him now are morons, plain and simple. Hopefully, most Americans are smart enough to v**e against the prick and when he is d**gged out of the office I will continue to pressure the government to try him for ALL his crimes and yes... if found guilty, I will advocate for his execution... for the sake of the presidency and the American people. Potential tyrants and abusers need to understand America is not to be toyed with. Our nation will not tolerate the abuse and endangerment of the people for money. I'm sure the founders of this great nation would agree with me.
I just watch the documentary "Totally Under C... (show quote)


Think it's fair to say leadership during the p******c has not been exceptional.... But don't leave out the population... American's are still arguing over whether masks and social distancing are actually helpful...

Reply
 
 
Oct 21, 2020 18:48:10   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Iliamna1 wrote:
Have you noticed C***d is surging in European countries and the stats are a secret in Russia. CCP stats, such as they are, cannot be trusted.

Yes, I have noticed the second wave in Europe, just as medicine had predicted and I expect they will handle that one better than we will when it hits us. As for Russian stats... look, the same things apply to all governments. We may never know the precise numbers, but hospitals record the occupants of their beds, so there is some t***h the patterns we see, all numbers considered.

Other things are not so easily obscured... Like, whether or not a government shuts down, effectively shutting down the economy and whether or not the mortality rate increases significantly.

Then there's just the simple logic of it.

Reply
Oct 21, 2020 18:59:13   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Think it's fair to say leadership during the p******c has not been exceptional.... But don't leave out the population... American's are still arguing over whether masks and social distancing are actually helpful...

Yes, another cultural delima brought on by the left-right cleavage of our nation that political parties have been playing with for decades. Of course there is nothing left or right about wearing a mask in any functional sense but once a figurehead takes a position, the masses polarize accordingly. It's reactive, not responsive.

Nevertheless, to your point... this polarization is in fact, interfering with our ability to respond in any coherent form. Seriously, we are sitting ducks for any biological weapon.

Reply
Oct 21, 2020 18:59:21   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Lonewolf wrote:
while ther at it they might ck trumps chinese bank account the on that had 17 million deposited in it on his first day in office. and the fact he removed 15 million in cash the next day.
at least we know who controls him now.
Joe Biden sold the office of the Vice President to the Chinese C*******t Party and Ukranian and Kazach and Russian oligarchs. His no account son was his patsy.

The question is,

Do you want to live in an America where you can enjoy your freedom, have more money for you and your family, and look forward to leaving your children and grandchildren a prosperous and peaceful country?
If so, v**e Trump.

Or, do you prefer living under an astronomically expensive and oppressive government that will control every aspect of your life?
If so, v**e Biden.

Reply
Oct 21, 2020 19:20:37   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Joe Biden sold the office of the Vice President to the Chinese C*******t Party and Ukranian and Kazach and Russian oligarchs. His no account son was his patsy.

The question is,

Do you want to live in an America where you can enjoy your freedom, have more money for you and your family, and look forward to leaving your children and grandchildren a prosperous and peaceful country?
If so, v**e Trump.

Or, do you prefer living under an astronomically expensive and oppressive government that will control every aspect of your life?
If so, v**e Biden.
Joe Biden sold the office of the Vice President to... (show quote)


I feel the need to ask, what right have you lost under Obama's terms???

I mean, I can see you being angry at Bush and the PATRIOT Act... But it seems like you honestly believe that Biden I going to destroy your Nation???

Or is it just social media hyperbole

Reply
 
 
Oct 21, 2020 19:40:20   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
I feel the need to ask, what right have you lost under Obama's terms???

I mean, I can see you being angry at Bush and the PATRIOT Act... But it seems like you honestly believe that Biden I going to destroy your Nation???

Or is it just social media hyperbole
I feel the need to ask, what right have you lost u... (show quote)
You're not an American, you don't live here, you haven't experienced what we have experienced, you don't feel it as we feel it, and you don't see it nearly as clearly as we do.

Reply
Oct 21, 2020 19:55:34   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
You're not an American, you don't live here, you haven't experienced what we have experienced, you don't feel it as we feel it, and you don't see it nearly as clearly as we do.


Great deflection

Well, that answered my question

Reply
Oct 21, 2020 20:27:13   #
RT friend Loc: Kangaroo valley NSW Australia
 
straightUp wrote:
OK... well, I don't know what this has to do with the topic, but which of Einstein's theories of relativity are you referring to? And did you know that he published his theories in the 20's before their was a N**i party?

Why don't you just stick to what you know? Try to remember this forum isn't limited to right-wing r****ds.


Not the story being published by Boom Bust take it up with them, OK I'll stick to what I know what do you think of my shed , built it all myself, drive through and fire proof.

Will answer about the Manhattan Project that you allude too after I get a confirmation from my confidants in Heaven.



Reply
Oct 21, 2020 20:37:53   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Great deflection

Well, that answered my question
Great deflection img src="https://static.onepolit... (show quote)
Deflection? What do you mean deflection? It's the t***h. You're not an American, you don't live here, you have no freaking idea of what we are going through here.

Reply
 
 
Oct 21, 2020 20:41:34   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Deflection? What do you mean deflection? It's the t***h. You're not an American, you don't live here, you have no freaking idea of what we are going through here.


So answer my question and educate me...

Reply
Oct 21, 2020 20:57:12   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
So answer my question and educate me...


You want me to outline the history of our decline in freedoms beginning on Jan. 20, 2009 and president Trump's attempt to restore those freedoms, and the disastrous consequences of a democrat win this November?

WTF do you think we have been doing for the last 12 years? If you can't see it by now, you never will.

Reply
Oct 21, 2020 21:18:39   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
You want me to outline the history of our decline in freedoms beginning on Jan. 20, 2009 and president Trump's attempt to restore those freedoms, and the disastrous consequences of a democrat win this November?

WTF do you think we have been doing for the last 12 years? If you can't see it by now, you never will.


Just one would do...

Which specific right have you lost under the Obama administration???

Just... One...

Reply
Oct 21, 2020 22:39:30   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Just one would do...

Which specific right have you lost under the Obama administration???

Just... One...
Don't try to bait me with the "one example" bulls**t. I wouldn't know which one to pick that would satisfy your political curiosity. I'd have to go back over a hundred years and trace the history to where we are now.

Maybe you should read Benjamin Morris' magnum opus Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States.

If you do, read carefully the Introduction by Byron Sunderland. Here is an excerpt:

". . . And, while every period has exhibited the signs of public degeneracy, none in our history presents more fearful proofs of the impiety and obduracy of great masses of the people. We have abandoned, in great measure, the faith and practice of our ancestors, in putting aside from their lawful supremacy the Christian ordinances and doctrines. The natural result is, that we have corrupted our ways in all the circles of society and all the pursuits of life. We have become as a field rank with the growth of all the vices and heaped with the pollution of mighty crimes. The rigid training of former times through family government, discipline, and instruction has been greatly relaxed, if not in many cases wholly neglected. Indeed, there are multitudes of parents in the land who from physical and moral causes are totally unfit to have the care of the children to whom they have given birth: so that a generation of human beings is growing up in one of the most favored regions of the globe, whose pr********n for the responsibilities of their age and mission has been sadly at fault, and whose precocity in levity, mischief, and insubordination already equals the vitiating examples that are set before them.

The education of the nation is going forward with rapid strides, but it is in a lamentable degree under the auspices of immorality and irreligion, alike in the high and the low places of the community. The unblushing venality and brazen wickedness of a large portion of the conductors of the public press and of public men of the country have strongly tended to demoralize the nation, to undermine the foundations and destroy the influence of Christian discipline, and to turn the mind and heart of many to infidelity and licentiousness. The same baleful spirit has moved upon the fountains of human learning and science, and so secularized the philosophy of the times as to have set the high faculty of human reason at variance with the sacred majesty of religion, and to have plunged thousands upon thousands of our young men into a sea of splendid sophistry and subtlety and all the the ruinous speculation of a proud but vain imagination.

Meanwhile, from the hearts of multitudes the dignity of honest labor and the dictates of a sober and frugal economy have died out, on the one hand increasing pauperism and crime and lending to misfortune the aggravation of human improvidence, and the other fostering habits of false show, and thus increasing the temptation to deception, fraud, peculation, and the dishonesties of the most high-pampered extravagance and excess. Moreover, the wanton neglect or abuse of our providential blessings, and the unconscious apostasy from every sentiment of purity and virtue, have served greatly to defile and degrade the mind of a large portion of the community, and ill the centers of population with a low and vulgar herd, who throng the open temples of obscenity and infamy. Thus the materials are prepared for human guilt and wretchedness, whose catalogue of crimes and woes exhaust the power of language to express them. Beyond all this, political controversy and partisan strife for the reins and spoils of power, conducted without principle, and reeking with abuse, have taken so fierce a form as often to have driven the best men from the arena and left the worst upon the field. The selfish and profligate stand forward to control the nominations and e******ns to office, and afterwards gamble with its duties and obligations without shame and without remorse."


This book was published in 1864.

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