dville Loc: Albuquerque

T***h is just that. It is fact...it is actuality....it is an axiom.
Our opinions are based on our beliefs not necessarily from fact. As a matter of FACT we will twist facts that don't resonate with our beliefs that they better fit our preconceived notions. Research has proven that. With an open mind we are able to see t***h as it reveals itself.

tmcsea1

Lol

tmcsea1

Great advice

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

Not knowing, I cannot say, therefore I will not express my thoughts beyond doubts. :thumbup: :thumbup: :mrgreen:

robby1

There was nothing religious in my statement. just fact.

robby1

Boy, you got that right.

alabuck Loc: Tennessee

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You're speaking t***h when you say that religion is used (& misused) for the power it has over its adherents and non-believers. However, you omit the t***h of its power being used for good; i.e. as the foundation for how a society should treat its members as opposed to its neighbors. To say, in broad terms, that religion's use is to be as a means of negativity is untrue in its premise, depending on the particular religion of which you're speaking.

Jesus' gospel was to love one another, your neighbors and your enemies. It's true that many "Christians" like to use the Bible to demean their political and religious adversaries. But, to use those "Christians" as the "a priori" to describe "all" Christians is an untrue statement in itself.

How you wish to accept the "t***hs" I accept to prove God's existence to myself is entirely up to you. That we have "free will" to accept or reject God and His existence, helps prove, to me, His existence. That He gave us the ability to have abstract thinking proves to me that we are set apart from the other species of life on the planet. Unless and/or until, man can travel back in time to witness, 1st hand, how the universe began, there will be no universally excepted "a priori" as to who, what or how the universe and all of its inhabitants came to be. Until then, all we'll ever have is "theory." But, again, our "free will" will be used to help us, individually, determine what are our "t***hs" and what are not.

robby1

This whole scenario about the Bible is a worldly picture of eternal life to come. It is like a blueprint or a script with God being the director. Eternal life is like getting the Oscar. If you think you have any bearing on the end results you are kidding yourself. You will die. Everyone in this world never asked to be here. You think you had a choice to be here. You think you have a choice to live as you want too. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. Given enough time we all die, then where does that leave you or anybody else. We are all so smart, how come we can't even overcome death. Don't kid yourself, your time will come. If I'm lying I'm dying.

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

rumitoid

It has bee proven that t***h is unknowable--which is great news for the Christian: do you know why?

alabuck Loc: Tennessee

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As I said before, through your "free will" you're given the option to believe as you want. I'm allowed to believe as I want via my "free will." Whether or not you choose to believe that our respective "free wills" are God-given, again demonstrates that you do, in fact, have free will.

Whether or not I'm kidding myself is a result of my free will. I believe, my soul will be with my God will come to fruition upon my earthly death. There is much we don't know. That you to speak of death so flippantly I find curious. As to most non-believers, death is the last experience we know about, for you wonder why we haven't ".... overcome death.... " seems anti-climatic. According to that line of thought, the end of our existence is, by definition, the end of us as individuals. If there is nothing to our existence after our death, why would you wonder about overcoming it?

Contrary to what you said, eternal life ISN'T like winning an Oscar. An Oscar is an award given between mankind for artistic work done during a specific period of time or for a specific body of work. That's why they're given annually and people win them only once or multiple times.

Maybe we didn't ask to be here. People have been asking the question: 'Why am I/we here?," for millennia. There are no records that tell us why we're here except religious literature. Science can't offer anything concrete toward answering that question other than a "theory" about evolution.

You're contradicting yourself when you say that we didn't ask to be here, then say that we have no control over our lives. If we don't have control, then who does? You seem to say that our lives have no meaning. Why not? You may as well say we're not really here; that all this is no more than a 4th or 5th dimensional reality that isn't real at all. If we aren't in control of our lives, then explain how so much of what we say and do, and don't say and don't do, is by our deciding whether or not we decide to do or not do something? Are you saying that we're all marionettes being controlled by a master puppeteer?

According to the Bible, we were created to worship God. He also gave us d******n over the Earth. We're also ranked higher than angels in the hierarchy of God's creation. So, it's God's will that were here. Think about it, God is omnipotent, omniscient & omnipresent. Can you imagine what that is like? I'll bet you can't?

Can you believe that He created us with the ability to decide for ourselves? Why would God create anything that He couldn't control 100% of the time? Why would God give us the attribute to love? There is nothing in us that we can use to conceive what God is like. We have no point of reference to describe all of God's attributes except to use those we see in ourselves. Yet, He demonstrates His love, forgiveness, grace, power, awesomeness, and His will every time we look around us.

Contrary to what you stated, eternal life isn't an award. It's a gift, given from God, through His grace. For you to think otherwise demonstrates your prejudices against allowing anyone or anything having control over you. Your point of reference is yourself. Unless you can change your paradigm, you'll never be able to visualize the greatness of God's creation and our part in it. You worship the created instead of the Creator. Oddly, too, that's your God-given "free will" allowing you to do that.

robby1

God made man from the dust of the earth. Before that happened God wrote the Lambs book of life slain before the foundation of the world. Everybody in that book of life was saved before the seven billion people who inhabited this planet were born. Jesus died for those who would be saved before they were born. There is no beginning or end with God, there is only now. There is no corridor of time with God. We are a people bound by time. When God put His plan into action He did it in six days. On the fourth day He made the sun and the moon and the stars. He said they were for seasons. On that fourth day God turned on the celestial clock. That is when time began for this world. Gods plan will end when He is through with creation. Everything happening in this world today is the same as it was in Noah's time. The same as it was in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah. Sin is rampant. The next time God steps in to stop it will be the last. Then it will be judgment day. No man gets saved by accepting Jesus as their savior. That was settled before the foundation of the world. Everybody who is appointed to eternal life will be saved. Religion in this world twisted God's word to make it say what it doesn't say. It was started by a man named Arminius, and a lawyer named Finney. A couple hundred years ago. The problem with people today is, they don't read the Bible to learn what it says, they listen to some preacher who is running the church as a business. He is getting rich off of ignorant people as far as what the t***h of the word says and not trying to find the t***h by reading the word and letting the Holy Spirit teach them the real t***h. Jesus told the Apostles, I chose you, you did not choose Me. Acts 13 says Those who were appointed to eternal life believed. Stop listening and start reading. If anybody wants to learn anything to get by in life you have to get a book and read. You need a teacher to help you to understand. Would you want a surgeon to do a triple bypass on you if he slept through that class. Everybody who will be saved was already save before they were born. Don't take my word for this READ the WORD and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you. You have not because you ask not.

alabuck Loc: Tennessee

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Sorry Robbi, I don't buy into any of what you're selling, here. Your "milliallism" and "limited atonement" is fraught with biblical errors. And your comment about, "... Religion in this world twisted God's word to make it say what it doesn't say. It was started by a man named Arminius, and a lawyer named Finney. A couple hundred years ago," totally ignores history and archaeology. Christianity is FAR older than "a couple of hundred years.," old. But, if it makes you happy to believe this stuff, then go for it.

Allow me to clearly and simply summarized the Scriptural teaching on this issue. FOR WHOM DID CHRIST DIE? HE DIED...

For all (1st Timothy 2:6; Isaiah 53:6).
For every man (Heb. 2:9).
For the world (John 3:16).
For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).
For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).
For many (Matthew 20:28).
For Israel (John 11:50-51).
For the Church (Eph. 5:25).
For "me" (Gal. 2:20).

One believer who was not committed to the belief that Christ died for all men made this remarkable concession: "If Christ really did die for all men, then I don't know how the Bible could say it any clearer than it does." How true! It is evident that the extreme Calvinist must ignore the clear language and obvious sense of many passages, and he must force the Scriptures and make them fit into his own theological mold. Limited atonement may seem logical and reasonable, but the real test is this: IS IT BIBLICAL? ... "What saith the Scriptures?" (Romans 4:3).

In child-like faith we must simply allow the Bible to say what it says. Those who promote this erroneous doctrine try to tell us that "world" does not really mean "world"' and "all" does not really mean "all" and "every man" does not really mean "every man" and "the whole world" does not really mean "the whole world." We are told that simple verses such as John 3:16 and Isaiah 53:6 must be understood, not as a child would understand them, but as a theologian would understand them. That is, we must re-interpret such verses in light of our system of theology.

The true doctrine of the atonement could be stated as follows: The Scriptures teach that the sacrifice of the Lamb of God involved the sin of the world (John 1:29), and that the Saviour's work of redemption (1st Timothy 2:6; 2nd Peter 2:1), and reconciliation (2nd Corinthians 5:19) and propitiation (1st John 2:2), that was for all men (1st Timothy 4:10); but the cross-work of Christ is efficient, effectual, and applicable only for those who believe (1st Timothy 4:10; John 3:16).

We could even say it in a simpler way: "Christ's death was SUFFICIENT FOR ALL, but EFFICIENT only for those who believe." The cross-work of Christ is not limited, but the application of that cross-work through the work of the Holy Spirit is limited to believers only. The extreme Calvinist (YOU Robbi?) would say that the cross was designed only for the elect and had no purpose for the "non-elect" (persistent unbelievers). But the death of God's Son had a divine purpose and design for both groups. For the elect, God's design was salvation according to His purpose and grace in Christ Jesus before the world began (2nd Timothy 1:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Okay, I've said all I need to say. Maybe YOU should do more reading of the Holy Bible. That's where I get my religion from.

Zeno Loc: Omaha NE

Dear Dville:If one has an Open Mind,they can examine a matter from many perspectives,as opposed to considering it through a prism of prejudice.You can look at both sides of an argument and hopefully deduce a logical stance.Your mind isn't a steel trap but one ready to attempt understanding something new.You will do this while realizing that you have your prejudices that will color your perceptions.It would be a boring world if everyone thought alike.
You must accept that other people have a right to their opinions(no matter how cockeyed they may be).Then you can debate,and enjoy the debate,trying to sell your viewpoint.You are arguing,a hobby of humankind since the dawn of time.It can be an immensely satisfying duel,intellectually stimulating and profoundly creative-even though you will probably be unable to convince the other party of your position.
And as you lay out your beliefs before others-keep an open mind.Zeno