rumitoid

Rose, be clear: what is the Biblical answer?

Rose42

You’re the one being Satan’s imp here. No one else. Its a role you relish.

Rose42

You have claimed you’ve studied the bible for over 30 years and had a ‘special’ insight. You don’t know this one either?

rumitoid

You are ridiculous. Just answer the question how you see it, I already did mine. Enlighten the heathens and fellow Christians of the t***h of the Bible or stop your blathering insults. And your egregious gaslighting that I claimed a "special" insight; how can you lie like that?

Rose42

I see no evidence you’re a Christian other than you know how to spell it. Nor do other Christians.

You know I’m not lying. Shall I find the posts tomorrow for you? It will take some time but I will if I have time. Do you also want some more examples of you mocking the Christ you claim you love? I can get those as well.

Crayons Loc: St Jo, Texas

Ya must be one o' them deceived 'Hillsong-Pauline' believers

Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois

I'll throw you a bone...

Matthew 19:3-9 (NASB)
3 Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"
4 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
5 and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
6 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
7 They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"
8 He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.
9 "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

There were two positions or schools of thought on divorce in Jesus’ day. Moses had said that any man could divorce his wife if "she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her." (Deuteronomy 24:1)

1. The school of Shammai said that the words some indecency meant adultery only. A wife could be as loose and mean as Jezebel, but she was not to be divorced unless she committed adultery.
2. The school of Hillel said that the words some indecency meant anything that was not pleasing to the man.

One should remember that women were counted as nothing but property to be possessed by men. They had no rights whatsoever except as a man might wish to give. Of course, this was the position followed by society, for it was the position that allowed human nature to run loose. Women were abused: used and discarded, neglected and violated. They were nothing but chattel property of men, and were often considered of less value than property, whether animals or things. Therefore, divorce ran rampant in Christ's day.

There are two attitudes toward Christ that prevail no matter what the generation: there are those who sincerely seek the help of Christ; and there are those who are always testing and questioning Him, stretching every inch they can out of the world and the flesh. They question and question, and by their questioning they are able to create uncertainty and doubt over right and wrong and are able to live as they wish.

Note the question asked In Matthew 9:3, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?" The flesh says no matter how frivolous—if there is displeasure, disgust, dislike—then divorce is allowed. But is it? That is what Christ was answering.

Quoting Genesis 5:2, Christ said there is the creation of male and female: "Have you not read that He who created them [Adam and Eve] from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE?" (Matthew 19:4) He did not make them males and females, as He did animals, but He made one male and one female. Each one was made for the other. They were not made for anyone else, for there was no one else.

Christ went on to say there was the creation of a new family: "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH" (Matthew 19:5). One man shall cleave to his wife and create a new family distinct from the family of his parents. He says a man, not men, and his wife, not wives. Note that a man leaves his father and mother. The union between husband and wife is to gain primacy over the union between parent and child. The union of cleaving is wrought by God and appointed by God. Therefore, marriage is a divine institution. Just as parents and children are not to divorce one another, neither are the husband and wife to divorce each other.

Christ continued by saying there is the creation of one body: "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." (Matthew 19:5) There is the molding into one person. The man and the wife cleave to each other. What is it that makes them one flesh? Cleaving. They are one body, one flesh, one person. They are not joined to two or three or four other persons, but they cleave only to one other person.

Christ also said that a marriage joined together by Him is not to be destroyed by any man. "So they are no longer two, but one flesh [joined together by God]. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." (Matthew 19:6)

The points are clear.
1. The husband and wife are joined together by God.
2. No one is to cut asunder what God joins together. Neither the husband or wife nor anyone else is to step in between the two and cause separation.

There is the ideal of permanence in marriage. The Pharisees had entrapped Jesus. Or so they thought. Jesus had given four reasons why there was to be no divorce. He was standing against Moses. In their view Moses had given a commandment that allowed divorce. (Matthew 19:7) Jesus said three things about the ideal of marriage.

"Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way" (Matthew 19:8).

1. Moses made a concession.
2. The reason: man's hard, sinful hearts.
3. Divorce was never willed and was not the purpose of God.

Note three important facts.

1. God's will for marriage was permanence. Divorce was permitted under Moses, but it was not God's will. It was sin, short of God's will and purpose.
2. The cause for divorce is said to be hardness of heart—a very serious indictment.
3. The union of marriage is not brought about by a natural law but by God. Marriage is not a law of nature, inherent within man. It is not something that operates by nature, that just happens because two people agree to live together and sign a civil contract. A true union or marriage that is joined together by God is a blessing, a gift of God. It is brought about because a couple is obedient to God. They live in and for each other under God (acknowledging God in all things), just as He says to live ("cleaving"). Therefore, God blesses them by joining them together in the most binding spiritual union.

It bears repeating: marriage is not a natural law; it is not a law of nature; it is a spiritual law that operates only if each spouse walks in the Spirit.

However, Christ said there was an allowance for divorce—"[G4202] illicit sexual intercourse." Christ said, "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality [G4202: adultery, fornication], and marries another woman commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9).

• There is one clear reason for divorce: adultery.
• Remarriage commits adultery.

Before Christ came into the world, adultery was punishable by death. Since Christ has come, the penalty has been changed. Divorce itself is to be the punishment, not death. Note the importance and high esteem that Christ places upon sex within marriage. It is so intimate and meaningful and important an experience that if it is violated, divorce is allowed.

Note however: Christ did not say that divorce must take place. It is only allowed. If the violated spouse cannot emotionally accept the unfaithfulness, divorce can take place. But if the offended spouse can forgive—if he or she can be emotionally controlled and forgiving enough to forgive—then the spouse should forgive.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5: 17 - 20.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

What's the biblical answer?

Parky doesn't seem to want to share... Care to enlighten me?

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Those verses appear to state the opposite... That indeed the law still applies...

Are we using different Bibles? I tend to go to the KJV....

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

So you agree that if people divorce and remarry (except under very specific circumstances) they are practicing sin and are no better than homosexuals, right?

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

That is also my understanding... But I don't pretend that I can recall every word of the Gospels.... I could be wrong...

rumitoid

Sure. I welcome it. But you will never do it. You're all blister.

Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois

Which attitude is yours canuckus? I believe the second one.

There are two attitudes toward Christ that prevail no matter what the generation: there are those who sincerely seek the help of Christ; and there are those who are always testing and questioning Him, stretching every inch they can out of the world and the flesh. They question and question, and by their questioning they are able to create uncertainty and doubt over right and wrong and are able to live as they wish.

Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois

You still don't understand the difference between practicing sin and sinning and having a true desire to repent.

Anybody who practices sin has no desire to repent and is destined for hell, hence, all who practice sin are "in the same boat."