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A Pastor was arrested this week; we all need to be concerned
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Apr 5, 2020 19:45:03   #
Searching Loc: Rural Southwest VA
 
Now, don't be so hard on DonaldR. We all have a different room with a view. Best you remember the Sermon on the Mount. I am a person of very strong faith, having survived an aggressive form of cancer that the docs said I had a 0-1% chance of surviving. My surgeon calls it miraculous. I call it attitude with gratitude, coupled with faith and grace. Faith is what allows me to step off into the darkness without hesitation. Grace is....what happens....once I or anyone steps off into that darkness, only to discover we are in free fall. That said, you'll have to forgive me here because I think the pastor was wrong.

Reply
Apr 5, 2020 20:47:31   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Searching wrote:
Now, don't be so hard on DonaldR. We all have a different room with a view. Best you remember the Sermon on the Mount. I am a person of very strong faith, having survived an aggressive form of cancer that the docs said I had a 0-1% chance of surviving. My surgeon calls it miraculous. I call it attitude with gratitude, coupled with faith and grace. Faith is what allows me to step off into the darkness without hesitation. Grace is....what happens....once I or anyone steps off into that darkness, only to discover we are in free fall. That said, you'll have to forgive me here because I think the pastor was wrong.
Now, don't be so hard on DonaldR. We all have a d... (show quote)

How do you exhibit evidence of your "very strong faith?" Because if you don't, your faith is dead. Works are evidence of your faith.

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead." James 2:26

Grace is getting something that you don't deserve. Mercy is not getting something that you do.

Reply
Apr 6, 2020 05:43:10   #
America 1 Loc: South Miami
 
woodguru wrote:
Yeah think about this, Sacramento county, that has a couple of million people had 314 cases, and 70 of them came from the members of one ridiculous church in Rancho Cordova...The Bethany Slavic Missionary Church. One of their members has died, I'm sure others will follow.

So this 70 cases that came from misguided people will equate to the direct exponential growth that stems from the 314 cases and the share that came from church gatherings. In another time these people would have been exiled if they were purveyors of a plague on the community.

Churches have to adhere to the same rules everyone else does for the good of the community. Ya'll red states, lands of the free, you have at it, k**l yourselves, just keep it out of my state. I'd rather be watching red states get hammered from a state that is doing a much better job of slowing this down and saving lives until we get better treatments and v*****es.
Yeah think about this, Sacramento county, that has... (show quote)


Time to back of the red-blue state BS.
Save it for another time.

Reply
 
 
Apr 6, 2020 09:18:05   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Parky60 wrote:
A Pastor was arrested this week; we all need to be concerned
Like you, I am all ready to get back to normal, if there will ever be such a thing. But I also take the c****av***s seriously and you should to. Those who scoff at the seriousness of the situation need to think about this: Do you really think the NBA, Major League Baseball, NASCAR, the NCAA, the Masters and all other sports would shut down and lose billions of dollars if not for a real p******c threat? Would entire nations impose absolute quarantines? Would major corporations close their doors? And would the President urge a virtual shutdown of our nation’s previously thriving economy during an e******n year if this weren’t deadly serious?

In adherence to “shelter in place,” most churches in the nation have closed their on-campus services to conduct services online. A few have remained open, but have taken extraordinary measures to try and protect the attenders.

My pastor of my own small church of less than 20 people is doing services online. Personally, I think that we should still be meeting because the Bible tells us that God has given us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control and that for me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But alas, there are others to think of like my pastor’s wife who has COPD, others in our church whose health is c*********d, my wife, people in the communities we live, and my obedience to God to listen to my pastor. So, I think that he has made a prudent choice and I will abide by it.

But one such church that remained open is The River at Tampa Bay Church. To maintain an atmosphere that mitigates spreading the c****av***s – similar to the essential business that I work for supplying forklift truck parts – it required attendees to separate 6-10 feet from others, supplied hand sanitizer at every door for every attendee, spent $100,000 for a hospital quality air-flow system, and had every staff member wearing gloves.

This week, Sheriff Chad Chronister of Hillsborough County, FL actually arrested Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne for having conducted church services. Think about that. A pastor was arrested for having a church service. He didn’t sneeze or cough on people. He didn’t deny the v***s was real and in fact, took great precautions to maintain social distancing. But he was arrested and taken to jail for opening his church. No one was forced to attend. The attendees arrived on their own and one wonders why those who attended weren’t arrested also? This case will set up a colossal legal battle as to whether the government at any level can tell a church, synagogue or mosque it cannot provide what to many, are essential religious services to its members. Think of it as there are essential products and services that feed our bodies. And there are essential church services that feed our souls with word, prayer, and fellowship.

But should the government actually arrest a pastor for having church? And if government can shut down a church now, when will some government decide that a church is dangerous because it believes what the government deems is wrong. If a church who believes the Biblical pattern of marriage of one man/one woman is considered discriminatory, will the pastor be arrested? If a church believes that men and women should have separate restrooms and dressing rooms and g****r-separate dorms and showers at youth camp, will the pastor be arrested and jailed for not following what the government deems right?

While I believe the risks to public safety and life are real from the c****av***s, I also believe that we cannot and must not sacrifice our first amendment guarantees of freedom of religion, free speech, and freedom to assemble. I urge you to protect your family during these times, but be equally vigilant that government doesn’t become a deadly v***s to k**l our liberties and turn us into a police state.
b A Pastor was arrested this week; we all need to... (show quote)


As a Christian I have never felt the need to attend church... God certainly doesn't require it...

I enjoy church... And the camaraderie of my brothers...

Prudence states that this is no a time for public gatherings... They are not risking just their own lives, but the lives of all and any they come in contact with...

I applaud the measures the church implemented... But it would have been wiser to follow the guidelines and do service over the internet...

Churches should be leaders in this time and set good examples for their flocks...

Amen...

Reply
Apr 6, 2020 09:28:58   #
Searching Loc: Rural Southwest VA
 
Parky60 wrote:
How do you exhibit evidence of your "very strong faith?" Because if you don't, your faith is dead. Works are evidence of your faith.

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead." James 2:26

Grace is getting something that you don't deserve. Mercy is not getting something that you do.


How do you exhibit "yours"? I hope you follow God's commandment to "love others"....and just to remind you....the only one who has "judging others" in a job description, is God, Himself....no matter how much we might get the urge to. I give testimony every chance I get about the miracles in my life. I'm fond of Isaiah 43:1-3 and I'm paraphrasing here.....when you pass through the waters, I will be with you, and when you pass through the rivers, they will not flow over you. In my mind, though, you don't have to preach it, if you walk the walk, it shows, and others gravitate to you, which to me says you are inviting others to share your Faith, and if you are busy being judgmental and your way or the highway, you will find yourself very much alone, ministering to no one, because no one can hear anything but bitterness and judging. I have no patience with judgmental people. I respect everyone's right to worship in their own unique way. In my mind (most likely not yours), I see many paths to The One. I had one judgmental, outspoken individual, after I began to heal from my cancer, tell me they hoped that I was listening to God better now. My reply...."I have a direct line to God, do you?" I went on to suggest that a "Come To Jesus" meeting with God might be in order, that making the comment she did to me made me question her character and her faith. As to your comment about Grace....God wraps us in His loving Grace each and every second of every day....we don't have to "deserve" it. I will remind you that we are ALL His children. I am now done with the subject at hand. Have a blessed day. Safe journey in all your travels.

Reply
Apr 6, 2020 09:33:32   #
Searching Loc: Rural Southwest VA
 
I noted several pastors have publicly said that common sense goes well with their Faith....they don't understand pastors who put their flocks at risk. Me neither. Yeah, I did say I was done with the topic, but it seems that I did not have the will to resist.

Reply
Apr 6, 2020 10:19:07   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Wh**ever your choice the matter centers around one thing~~ bringing glory to Gods will..

The church is the moral reinforcer of faith in God and given strength and faith when in attendance.. I am reminded of the passage;
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them...

While I do not belong to any denominational church I do attend different ones on occasion.. My belief being I need not the doors of another to enter when my home can be “my church”.. Or my car, or the fields of the land, etc..

If my heart, soul, mind and spirit believe, and I try to walk in the path of our Lords will I am keeping to Him, what belongs to Him~, Me..

I know a simple comment to make but this is my reality as a believer in He above..

A church I enjoy had an online Palm Sunday gathering I did watch.. Half way through it I took a few staple things to my elderly neighbor, whom at 83 can’t get out so much and put them at her doorstep..I had made blueberry muffins earlier that morning knowing some were going to her.. When she opened her door we had a moment of discussion and a prayer together~~ The Lords prayer~~ You should have heard that sweet little voice of hers magnify as we recited it together .. I left with a tear of sweet joy in “ worshiping together” as it was...

As we weather this v***s may we give Thanks and Gratitude for all we have or do not have..May we set aside our indifferences and find peace and love to share instead..
God Bless us one and all..

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=RDaEplqV0scyo&feature=share&playnext=1

Simply Believe

Reply
 
 
Apr 6, 2020 10:36:56   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
As a Christian I have never felt the need to attend church... God certainly doesn't require it...

Then you certainly don't understand the need for word, prayer, and fellowship.

By the way, just so you understand...you're a PROFESSING Christian. In other words a CINO.

Reply
Apr 6, 2020 10:39:29   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
...Prudence states that this is no a time for public gatherings... They are not risking just their own lives, but the lives of all and any they come in contact with...

Then I shouldn't risk my life working for an essential business even though I'm following all the protocols as the church did to mitigate risk?

Reply
Apr 6, 2020 10:39:51   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Parky60 wrote:
Then you certainly don't understand the need for word, prayer, and fellowship.

By the way, just so you understand...you're a PROFESSING Christian. In other words a CINO.


I don't require church for word, prayer, or fellowship... Why would I?

God is everywhere Parky... Church is a great community (or should be), but it's not a requirement for knowing God or being a Christian...

Of course I'm a professing Christian... Why would I hide it Nothing to be ashamed of..

Reply
Apr 6, 2020 10:45:28   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Searching wrote:
How do you exhibit "yours"? I hope you follow God's commandment to "love others"....and just to remind you....the only one who has "judging others" in a job description, is God, Himself....no matter how much we might get the urge to. I give testimony every chance I get about the miracles in my life. I'm fond of Isaiah 43:1-3 and I'm paraphrasing here.....when you pass through the waters, I will be with you, and when you pass through the rivers, they will not flow over you. In my mind, though, you don't have to preach it, if you walk the walk, it shows, and others gravitate to you, which to me says you are inviting others to share your Faith, and if you are busy being judgmental and your way or the highway, you will find yourself very much alone, ministering to no one, because no one can hear anything but bitterness and judging. I have no patience with judgmental people. I respect everyone's right to worship in their own unique way. In my mind (most likely not yours), I see many paths to The One. I had one judgmental, outspoken individual, after I began to heal from my cancer, tell me they hoped that I was listening to God better now. My reply...."I have a direct line to God, do you?" I went on to suggest that a "Come To Jesus" meeting with God might be in order, that making the comment she did to me made me question her character and her faith. As to your comment about Grace....God wraps us in His loving Grace each and every second of every day....we don't have to "deserve" it. I will remind you that we are ALL His children. I am now done with the subject at hand. Have a blessed day. Safe journey in all your travels.
How do you exhibit "yours"? I hope you ... (show quote)

So you're into Universalism? I figured as much with your "New Age" comments. Better pass through the narrow gate and get right with Jesus. He's the ONLY way. For He said that He is the way, the t***h, and the life and that NO ONE comes to the Father except through Him.

Reply
 
 
Apr 6, 2020 10:49:14   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
...Of course I'm a professing Christian... Why would I hide it Nothing to be ashamed of..

I tell you the t***h...There are multitudes of professing Christians who are going to hell.

[Jesus said:] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" Matthew 7: 21-23

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Apr 6, 2020 10:57:22   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Parky60 wrote:
I tell you the t***h...There are multitudes of professing Christians who are going to hell.

[Jesus said:] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" Matthew 7: 21-23
I tell you the t***h...There are multitudes of pro... (show quote)


Exactly... I've posted this to you before... Except it was the whole chapter I recommended...

Stay strong Parky

Reply
Apr 6, 2020 11:25:43   #
Singularity
 
lindajoy wrote:
Wh**ever your choice the matter centers around one thing~~ bringing glory to Gods will..

The church is the moral reinforcer of faith in God and given strength and faith when in attendance.. I am reminded of the passage;
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them...

While I do not belong to any denominational church I do attend different ones on occasion.. My belief being I need not the doors of another to enter when my home can be “my church”.. Or my car, or the fields of the land, etc..

If my heart, soul, mind and spirit believe, and I try to walk in the path of our Lords will I am keeping to Him, what belongs to Him~, Me..

I know a simple comment to make but this is my reality as a believer in He above..

A church I enjoy had an online Palm Sunday gathering I did watch.. Half way through it I took a few staple things to my elderly neighbor, whom at 83 can’t get out so much and put them at her doorstep..I had made blueberry muffins earlier that morning knowing some were going to her.. When she opened her door we had a moment of discussion and a prayer together~~ The Lords prayer~~ You should have heard that sweet little voice of hers magnify as we recited it together .. I left with a tear of sweet joy in “ worshiping together” as it was...

As we weather this v***s may we give Thanks and Gratitude for all we have or do not have..May we set aside our indifferences and find peace and love to share instead..
God Bless us one and all..

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=RDaEplqV0scyo&feature=share&playnext=1

Simply Believe
Wh**ever your choice the matter centers around one... (show quote)


Thank you, LJ.

I guess it could be seen to boil down to whether one chooses to attend services or perform devotions only so that their glorious devotion can be seen and approved by others ("verily, they have their reward.... ") or performs service/endures privation for their fellow man and loved ones that could be evaluated by any existing sentient entity (or Entity) as ultimately loving/life affirming.

I'm wondering if some have forgotten that grace purportedly abounds and forgiveness for the faint of heart or hard of head would still be avai!able?

Especially this week, stay home! Wash your hands. Don't touch your face. Get forgiven, as often as you wish if you need it, in the timing and privacy of your own space!

And if one desperately believes and is afraid of their "loving" God to that degree? Go shelter in place at the safe space church building and then pray and worship there without ceasing! One should be prepared and have enough supplies and victuals unless they enjoy endangering essential workers by requiring them to sequentially brave the desolate landscape to bring pizzas and/or provide news of the outside.

Or could it be that there will be manna from the heavens? Heh! And to think I thought UBI was presumptuous!

Reply
Apr 6, 2020 11:35:25   #
bggamers Loc: georgia
 
Parky60 wrote:
A Pastor was arrested this week; we all need to be concerned
Like you, I am all ready to get back to normal, if there will ever be such a thing. But I also take the c****av***s seriously and you should to. Those who scoff at the seriousness of the situation need to think about this: Do you really think the NBA, Major League Baseball, NASCAR, the NCAA, the Masters and all other sports would shut down and lose billions of dollars if not for a real p******c threat? Would entire nations impose absolute quarantines? Would major corporations close their doors? And would the President urge a virtual shutdown of our nation’s previously thriving economy during an e******n year if this weren’t deadly serious?

In adherence to “shelter in place,” most churches in the nation have closed their on-campus services to conduct services online. A few have remained open, but have taken extraordinary measures to try and protect the attenders.

My pastor of my own small church of less than 20 people is doing services online. Personally, I think that we should still be meeting because the Bible tells us that God has given us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control and that for me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But alas, there are others to think of like my pastor’s wife who has COPD, others in our church whose health is c*********d, my wife, people in the communities we live, and my obedience to God to listen to my pastor. So, I think that he has made a prudent choice and I will abide by it.

But one such church that remained open is The River at Tampa Bay Church. To maintain an atmosphere that mitigates spreading the c****av***s – similar to the essential business that I work for supplying forklift truck parts – it required attendees to separate 6-10 feet from others, supplied hand sanitizer at every door for every attendee, spent $100,000 for a hospital quality air-flow system, and had every staff member wearing gloves.

This week, Sheriff Chad Chronister of Hillsborough County, FL actually arrested Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne for having conducted church services. Think about that. A pastor was arrested for having a church service. He didn’t sneeze or cough on people. He didn’t deny the v***s was real and in fact, took great precautions to maintain social distancing. But he was arrested and taken to jail for opening his church. No one was forced to attend. The attendees arrived on their own and one wonders why those who attended weren’t arrested also? This case will set up a colossal legal battle as to whether the government at any level can tell a church, synagogue or mosque it cannot provide what to many, are essential religious services to its members. Think of it as there are essential products and services that feed our bodies. And there are essential church services that feed our souls with word, prayer, and fellowship.

But should the government actually arrest a pastor for having church? And if government can shut down a church now, when will some government decide that a church is dangerous because it believes what the government deems is wrong. If a church who believes the Biblical pattern of marriage of one man/one woman is considered discriminatory, will the pastor be arrested? If a church believes that men and women should have separate restrooms and dressing rooms and g****r-separate dorms and showers at youth camp, will the pastor be arrested and jailed for not following what the government deems right?

While I believe the risks to public safety and life are real from the c****av***s, I also believe that we cannot and must not sacrifice our first amendment guarantees of freedom of religion, free speech, and freedom to assemble. I urge you to protect your family during these times, but be equally vigilant that government doesn’t become a deadly v***s to k**l our liberties and turn us into a police state.
b A Pastor was arrested this week; we all need to... (show quote)


There is a passage in the Bible where God says Romans 13:1-2 Obey the government , for God is one who has put it there.There is no goverment that God has not placed in power

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