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DOD to provide 5 million masks,14,000 ventilators for C****av***s fight!!
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Mar 18, 2020 23:46:34   #
woodguru
 
proud republican wrote:
https://www.defense.gov/Explore/News/Article/Article/2115200/dod-poised-to-provide-masks-ventilators-labs-for-c****av***s-fight/


Over a billion were needed in the last disease fight and this one will need more...5m/1B, a drop in the bathtub, but it's a start.

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Mar 19, 2020 00:02:15   #
Iliamna1
 
dtucker300 wrote:
It's insidious, isn't it?. Very difficult to watch loved ones go through this. You have my condolences as well.
My friend had ALS and it was very difficult to see her wither away. She said it was easy for her and more difficult for the ones still here who have to watch. I think she was right.

Unions are funny things. I never have quite understood the need for public employee unions. Having been in a union myself, for several years when I was younger, I always viewed them with suspicion. Sometimes they were a necessary evil. Mostly, they have outlived their purpose these days. But conditions could come back where they may be needed. I see good in bad in the way they use members' dues for political causes. Some members don't agree with the way their dues are used. Unions make it difficult to discipline or fire a bad employee, but don't do enough for good employees based on merit. Anyway, a much more complicated subject than we need to worry about today. I'm sure the subject will rear its head on OPP soon enough.
Take care of yourself, as well! You have a difficult and important job. We don't need you to get ill.
It's insidious, isn't it?. Very difficult to watc... (show quote)


I did have a job, but due to the effects of a stroke, and am now (forcibly due to health issues) permanently retired. I much preferred working and now that my sister, her husband and I are sequestered due to the v***s, I'm starting to get a bit stir crazy. Fortunately, I have the option of walking down to the barn and giving treats to the livestock. But now .. . to bed. Good night.

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Mar 19, 2020 00:15:32   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
Iliamna1 wrote:
I did have a job, but due to the effects of a stroke, and am now (forcibly due to health issues) permanently retired. I much preferred working and now that my sister, her husband and I are sequestered due to the v***s, I'm starting to get a bit stir crazy. Fortunately, I have the option of walking down to the barn and giving treats to the livestock. But now .. . to bed. Good night.


Sorry to hear about your stroke. At least, you are ambulatory, that's good, and one would never know from your postings on OPP that you suffered a stroke. Retirement can be good also. I thank God I still have relatively good health. That's something you can't buy (well, mostly you can't). Good Night!

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Mar 19, 2020 05:51:03   #
American Vet
 
dtucker300 wrote:
My mother in law eventually died from Multiple Myeloma, emphysema, and pneumonia. I learned in 5 minutes how to suction secretions from her lungs, and I had no medical training other than first aid. Phlebotomists can quickly learn catheter insertion. It called OJT, and it is not rocket science. Don't misunderstand me. I know it takes years of school and training to become a competent and accomplished ICU Nurse. I am not dismissing their training and expertise. God bless them for the job they do under some very stressful circumstances. But when you have hundreds of patients you do what you must. People are willing to learn and can quickly learn the basic sk**ls they will need. The alternative is to provide no care for them because there is no one trained to look after them? I don't think so. I think you are right about the number of trained ICU nurses being an issue relative to the number of ventilators. However, there is not a huge surplus of ventilators that just happen to be laying around in warehouses. We are not talking about millions. Just some to supplement what we already have. There are nurses in training. How about medical students who are near the end of school. Where there is a will there is a way. This is the American way. Or is the Nurses union afraid of losing control of a labor market that is purposely restricted so as the keep their pay high by creating an artificial shortage of labor? The schools of medicine do this with admissions to Med schools and Law schools used to do this. When law school became more accessible the number of lawyers increased to the point that there were more than we needed and this, in turn, decreased the lawyers' outrageous fees. Lawyers are now more affordable (but still too expensive)

It does not take only a trained and functioning ICU nurse to be the only one providing care. They can supervise and be there when emergency situations arise. Try looking for possible solutions instead of being so quick to say no to everything. I am only brainstorming, and maybe none of this will ever work, but I haven't seen a good reason why we shouldn't try to do something to supplement the labor force needed in an emergency.
My mother in law eventually died from Multiple Mye... (show quote)


I agree with many of the things you state. I would point out that an increase use of 'techs' will - as has happened in the past - result in a higher number of bad outcomes. That being said, we have to weigh the consequences of other options.

However I want to take you to task about one comment: "Or is the Nurses union afraid of losing control of a labor market that is purposely restricted so as the keep their pay high by creating an artificial shortage of labor?"

There is no single "nurse's union". And according to data I was able to locate, only about 10% of nurses belong to a union (2.8 million RN' in America/about 250,000 in unions). And, except for a brief period in the late 80's and another in the mid 90's, there has always been a nursing shortage.

In every 'strike' that I know of (for about the last 30 years) the primary reason nurses went on strike was nurse/patient ratios.

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Mar 19, 2020 14:11:33   #
Iliamna1
 
American Vet wrote:
I agree with many of the things you state. I would point out that an increase use of 'techs' will - as has happened in the past - result in a higher number of bad outcomes. That being said, we have to weigh the consequences of other options.

However I want to take you to task about one comment: "Or is the Nurses union afraid of losing control of a labor market that is purposely restricted so as the keep their pay high by creating an artificial shortage of labor?"

There is no single "nurse's union". And according to data I was able to locate, only about 10% of nurses belong to a union (2.8 million RN' in America/about 250,000 in unions). And, except for a brief period in the late 80's and another in the mid 90's, there has always been a nursing shortage.

In every 'strike' that I know of (for about the last 30 years) the primary reason nurses went on strike was nurse/patient ratios.
I agree with many of the things you state. I would... (show quote)


So true! I never minded working hard, but I did mind the lack of support from administrators when we were tremendously understaffed. Things could spiral downhill quickly under those circumstances. And the nurses were always low man on the totem pole.

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Mar 19, 2020 14:48:18   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
American Vet wrote:
I agree with many of the things you state. I would point out that an increase use of 'techs' will - as has happened in the past - result in a higher number of bad outcomes. That being said, we have to weigh the consequences of other options.

However I want to take you to task about one comment: "Or is the Nurses union afraid of losing control of a labor market that is purposely restricted so as the keep their pay high by creating an artificial shortage of labor?"

There is no single "nurse's union". And according to data I was able to locate, only about 10% of nurses belong to a union (2.8 million RN' in America/about 250,000 in unions). And, except for a brief period in the late 80's and another in the mid 90's, there has always been a nursing shortage.

In every 'strike' that I know of (for about the last 30 years) the primary reason nurses went on strike was nurse/patient ratios.
I agree with many of the things you state. I would... (show quote)


Your right. I was being facetious about a nurses union. I was trying to make a point about how some professional associations manipulate the labor market.

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Mar 19, 2020 14:49:33   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
American Vet wrote:
I agree with many of the things you state. I would point out that an increase use of 'techs' will - as has happened in the past - result in a higher number of bad outcomes. That being said, we have to weigh the consequences of other options.

However I want to take you to task about one comment: "Or is the Nurses union afraid of losing control of a labor market that is purposely restricted so as the keep their pay high by creating an artificial shortage of labor?"

There is no single "nurse's union". And according to data I was able to locate, only about 10% of nurses belong to a union (2.8 million RN' in America/about 250,000 in unions). And, except for a brief period in the late 80's and another in the mid 90's, there has always been a nursing shortage.

In every 'strike' that I know of (for about the last 30 years) the primary reason nurses went on strike was nurse/patient ratios.
I agree with many of the things you state. I would... (show quote)


Same with student/teacher ratios.

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Mar 19, 2020 14:52:53   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
Iliamna1 wrote:
So true! I never minded working hard, but I did mind the lack of support from administrators when we were tremendously understaffed. Things could spiral downhill quickly under those circumstances. And the nurses were always low man on the totem pole.


Yes, and there's the rub. Those who can, do. Those who can't, administrate.

Before everyone gets mad at me about this, know that many administrators have difficult jobs and have to make tough decisions about staffing levels to budgeting, and so much more.

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Mar 19, 2020 15:50:25   #
American Vet
 
dtucker300 wrote:
Your right. I was being facetious about a nurses union. I was trying to make a point about how some professional associations manipulate the labor market.


Oh yes - you are correct on that count. And here are several unions that would LOVE to become the 'primary' nursing union.

OTOH, I know of several hospitals where the nurses went union - then v**ed them out in less than 10 years. reason: They were paying dues but nothing much changed.

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Mar 19, 2020 16:33:07   #
Iliamna1
 
American Vet wrote:
Oh yes - you are correct on that count. And here are several unions that would LOVE to become the 'primary' nursing union.

OTOH, I know of several hospitals where the nurses went union - then v**ed them out in less than 10 years. reason: They were paying dues but nothing much changed.


Yep. And then the dues always went to liberal causes. So, guess what, about 80% do not belong to a union, unless they're pretty liberal (which is why that union supported Sanders)l. At a hospital I used to work at, I was invited to a union meeting as thy were trying to recruit nurses. I never went back and few of the other nurses I knew did either.

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Mar 19, 2020 17:28:46   #
American Vet
 
Iliamna1 wrote:
Yep. And then the dues always went to liberal causes. So, guess what, about 80% do not belong to a union, unless they're pretty liberal (which is why that union supported Sanders)l. At a hospital I used to work at, I was invited to a union meeting as thy were trying to recruit nurses. I never went back and few of the other nurses I knew did either.


In me experience, the nurses who strongly endorse unions have a spouse (typically a husband) who is a union.

I might add that those nurses were not the ones I depended on....

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Mar 20, 2020 01:48:49   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
Iliamna1 wrote:
I realize OJT can do wonders, and with this coming whirlwind, I certainly hope so. Yes, there are other options we MUST explore and implement to get through this. As for nurses unions . . I refused to go on strike when other nurses were walking off their jobs. Either give 2 weeks notice and quit THEN after giving good effort on the job. I've been known to resign over staffing issues. Please, never associate me with a nurses' union! I despise unions, nursing and otherwise.
I'm so sorry about your mom. My mother also died due to complications of multiple myeloma. Not a good way to go. She was also a registered nurse and often stated she wasn't afraid of much, but she had a deep-seated and justifiable fear of ever getting cancer as she had been exposed to radiation many times unbeknown to us at the time. And she ended up with MM. Some very good things came out of it, though, but we can discuss that some other time.
Stay well, wash your hands and God bless. Cathie
I realize OJT can do wonders, and with this coming... (show quote)


Quote:
Or is the Nurses union afraid of losing control of a labor market that is purposely restricted so as the keep their pay high by creating an artificial shortage of labor? The schools of medicine do this with admissions to Med schools and Law schools used to do this. When law school became more accessible the number of lawyers increased to the point that there were more than we needed and this, in turn, decreased the lawyers' outrageous fees. Lawyers are now more affordable (but still too expensive)
Or is the Nurses union afraid of losing control of... (show quote)



https://www.policyed.org/intellections/unseen-consequences-occupational-licensing/video

Occupational licensing is supposed to protect consumers, but instead, it inhibits competition and further entrenches incumbents in the market. Under the guise of consumer safety, occupational licenses require costly classes or fees before workers may join certain professions. Many professions now require licenses even though they do not put consumers at risk.

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Mar 20, 2020 06:48:08   #
American Vet
 
dtucker300 wrote:
https://www.policyed.org/intellections/unseen-consequences-occupational-licensing/video

Occupational licensing is supposed to protect consumers, but instead, it inhibits competition and further entrenches incumbents in the market. Under the guise of consumer safety, occupational licenses require costly classes or fees before workers may join certain professions. Many professions now require licenses even though they do not put consumers at risk.


So do you believe that doctor's should not have to be licensed?

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Mar 20, 2020 15:42:16   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
American Vet wrote:
So do you believe that doctor's should not have to be licensed?


I never suggested such; explicitly nor implicitly.
https://www.policyed.org/intellections/unseen-consequences-occupational-licensing/video

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Mar 21, 2020 06:12:04   #
American Vet
 
dtucker300 wrote:


So what is your stance on 'professional' licensing?

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