proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

What people seem to forget is Constitutionally the Governor’s of the states have a much better chance (with some targeted Federal help) of coordinating a defense against the spread of this flu.

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

Iliamna1

And where are they going to get the staff to care for ventilated patients? Do you have any idea of what it takes to set up and to care for a person on a ventilator? In most ICU's, a nurse can manage 2 people on ventilators. ICU nurses don't grown trees. So they get all the ventilators they need. There are only so many licensed nurses and resp therapists. This doesn't look too good to me. And I can't return to nursing at my age and with my health issues.

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

Military Medics quickly (and therefore, inadequately) trained? There are not a lot of empty ICU beds available in the U.S. Something like close to 90% filled? They will need extra facilities to be put up in a hurry if this gets as bad as is projected.

Iliamna1

Like I said, not looking good to me. The numbers are not lining up.

bggamers Loc: georgia

Each state governor is responsible for his own state and their response if they felt they were more at risk they could have started they're shut down earlier that was they're call

American Vet

American Vet

One does not 'quickly' train an ICU nurse. Military medics fall into a category about where an LPN does.

Not saying that the military isn't a valuable resource; but their part would be more in line with logistics and initial primary care, especially in getting 'extra' facilities up and running quickly.

Lt. Rob Polans ret.

Air mattresses? Just sayin'

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

That's right. You don't quickly train an ICU nurse. I'm only saying that the military can provide support services. We won't need to train ICU nurses. We need to train for a small subset of ICU sk**ls; set-up and using a ventilator. Just like giving potential teachers, still working on a credential, an emergency credential to immediately teach in a classroom.

Iliamna1

And who's going to put in (and remove) the IV lines, and give all the meds (which have to be given IV because if you're on a respirator/ventilator, you can't eat or take anything by mouth). What about suctioning out the inevitable secretions? And who's going to clean the patient when they soil themselves? Then turn and reposition them so they're comfortable? Not easy with a bunch of tubes. Don't forget these patients also have naso-gastric tubes and Foley catheters that have to be cared for. And who's gong to monitor the patient's vital signs including O2 sat and level of consciousness and sedation? Patients on ventilators generally need some form of sedation and/or restraints. All these tasks are ongoing and constant. I think the issue is more of availability of trained ICU nurses than the number of ventilators.
It takes a trained and functioning intensive care registered nurse, not a mere technician. And will the techy know what to do in an emergency, like a cardiac arrest?

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

My mother in law eventually died from Multiple Myeloma, emphysema, and pneumonia. I learned in 5 minutes how to suction secretions from her lungs, and I had no medical training other than first aid. Phlebotomists can quickly learn catheter insertion. It called OJT, and it is not rocket science. Don't misunderstand me. I know it takes years of school and training to become a competent and accomplished ICU Nurse. I am not dismissing their training and expertise. God bless them for the job they do under some very stressful circumstances. But when you have hundreds of patients you do what you must. People are willing to learn and can quickly learn the basic sk**ls they will need. The alternative is to provide no care for them because there is no one trained to look after them? I don't think so. I think you are right about the number of trained ICU nurses being an issue relative to the number of ventilators. However, there is not a huge surplus of ventilators that just happen to be laying around in warehouses. We are not talking about millions. Just some to supplement what we already have. There are nurses in training. How about medical students who are near the end of school. Where there is a will there is a way. This is the American way. Or is the Nurses union afraid of losing control of a labor market that is purposely restricted so as the keep their pay high by creating an artificial shortage of labor? The schools of medicine do this with admissions to Med schools and Law schools used to do this. When law school became more accessible the number of lawyers increased to the point that there were more than we needed and this, in turn, decreased the lawyers' outrageous fees. Lawyers are now more affordable (but still too expensive)

It does not take only a trained and functioning ICU nurse to be the only one providing care. They can supervise and be there when emergency situations arise. Try looking for possible solutions instead of being so quick to say no to everything. I am only brainstorming, and maybe none of this will ever work, but I haven't seen a good reason why we shouldn't try to do something to supplement the labor force needed in an emergency.

Iliamna1

I realize OJT can do wonders, and with this coming whirlwind, I certainly hope so. Yes, there are other options we MUST explore and implement to get through this. As for nurses unions . . I refused to go on strike when other nurses were walking off their jobs. Either give 2 weeks notice and quit THEN after giving good effort on the job. I've been known to resign over staffing issues. Please, never associate me with a nurses' union! I despise unions, nursing and otherwise.
I'm so sorry about your mom. My mother also died due to complications of multiple myeloma. Not a good way to go. She was also a registered nurse and often stated she wasn't afraid of much, but she had a deep-seated and justifiable fear of ever getting cancer as she had been exposed to radiation many times unbeknown to us at the time. And she ended up with MM. Some very good things came out of it, though, but we can discuss that some other time.
Stay well, wash your hands and God bless. Cathie

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

It's insidious, isn't it?. Very difficult to watch loved ones go through this. You have my condolences as well.
My friend had ALS and it was very difficult to see her wither away. She said it was easy for her and more difficult for the ones still here who have to watch. I think she was right.

Unions are funny things. I never have quite understood the need for public employee unions. Having been in a union myself, for several years when I was younger, I always viewed them with suspicion. Sometimes they were a necessary evil. Mostly, they have outlived their purpose these days. But conditions could come back where they may be needed. I see good in bad in the way they use members' dues for political causes. Some members don't agree with the way their dues are used. Unions make it difficult to discipline or fire a bad employee, but don't do enough for good employees based on merit. Anyway, a much more complicated subject than we need to worry about today. I'm sure the subject will rear its head on OPP soon enough.
Take care of yourself, as well! You have a difficult and important job. We don't need you to get ill.