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New Way Forward Act Bill.....Is it good for America??
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Feb 16, 2020 19:55:09   #
Navigator
 
Fodaoson wrote:
I just realized how talented some of the posters on opp are. They can rewrite history, Interpret the Bible, rewrite the Bible revise the English language.


Omnipotent, they are.

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Feb 16, 2020 21:02:33   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
son of witless wrote:
" The total of what? Deficits aren't accumulative. You DO realize we're talking about the deficit not the debt, right? "

You are obviously better informed than I. All of this time, I was thinking that deficits caused the national debt to go up. All of this time I was thinking that the national debt was an accumulation of all of the yearly deficits that happened previously, so that if you had 8 years of extraordinary deficits, it did not matter that your last year was relatively good, because each year you had increased the national debt tremendously.

I see I was sadly mistaken. As long as you can get your last year's deficit much lower when compared to your ginormous previous years, you can claim you hardly increased the national debt at all.

I am thankful to you for splaining the new math to me. I thought I was fairly smart with arithmetic, but obviously I am fortunate to have you as a math tutor.

" Did you miss where I explained WHY the deficit spiked under Obama? It's spiked because Bush f'ed up the economy so bad that we now call it the "Great Recession" And Obama was the one who had to get the government to bail out the industries that crashed with the economy. It's called saving jobs and it came at a cost, which is what you see in the chart. "

Since you did such a fine job straightening out my faulty Mathematics education, maybe you would do me the further favor of informing my which industries crashed the economy, so that President Obama could bail them, out. I used to think I knew all about it, but obviously you know better.
" The total of what? Deficits aren't accumula... (show quote)


Let me point out to you what your problem was. You were using common sense! If it's so common why don't more people have it? The Democrats, using their Common Core New Math will tell you that the deficits are not caused by too much government spending as government continues to expand exponentially, but rather too little tax revenue from the top earners, even though the top ten percent pay more than half the federal budget. How can that be if they are always avoiding paying taxes? Must be from using that Common Core math they keep foisting upon all the kids.

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Feb 16, 2020 21:26:16   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
fullspinzoo wrote:
Inherited from Obama? What a crock. Obama never set a record in the stock mkt during his first term. Obama never went above 2.9 GDP annually for all 8 years.

I'll assume the 2.9 figure is a reference to growth rate since the GDP is measured in dollars not ratios and I'm just going to laugh at how you say Obama never went beyond 2.9% and then fail to mention that Trump hasn't either.

And before you point to that graph in the CNBC article you linked to, have a closer look. It's very misleading. The numbers on the chart are not the actual growth rate numbers; they are expressions of the percentage increase from the previous quarter. So you can have a 1% growth rate but if in the next quarter it goes up to 1.25% that's a 25% increase. See how that works?

fullspinzoo wrote:

Compared to Trump: Trump has already set records in the DOW over 144 times. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/how-trump-has-set-economic-growth-on-fire.html


The stock market can't go from 0 to 60 in 2 seconds zoo. We are seeing higher numbers under Trump by virtue of the simple fact that Trump came AFTER Obama who started at ZERO where Bush left him. He had to pull the car out of the ditch, get in, start the engine back up again and shift into first gear, by the time Trump took over we were already in 5th gear and pushing 50. So even though Trump got to 60 and Obama didn't, doesn't mean that Trump deserves all the credit for getting there.

That being said, I will agree that Trump's deregulations MAY have had some additional influence on the stock market but then again, it also works the other way. Regulations also have a similar effect - it really depends on what stocks we're talking about. Regulations on Big Oil for instance will send g***n e****y stocks soaring.

On the other hand, I have no problem crediting the 2017 tax cuts for the current spike we see now. These tax cuts, which were sold on the idea that they will encourage companies to invest in jobs, resulted instead in a wave of stock buybacks, which pushed the index to these record breaking levels we see now. It is in effect a result of Trump's failure to create jobs with a corporate tax cut. But hey, you get lemons you make lemonade, right? So he fell short on the job creation promise, but look at that stock market, eh?

But here's why people like me aren't dancing in the streets about it.

The direct cost of this tax cut is a massive increase to the deficit. "In the two years since the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 took effect on Jan. 1, 2018, the annual U.S. federal deficit has grown from $681 billion to a bit over $1 trillion, according to the Treasury Department." https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-01-23/blame-1-trillion-federal-deficit-on-trump-tax-cuts-and-spending
Of course this all gets added to the national debt, that Republicans, who were lighting themselves on fire with outrage over the national debt when Obama was in office, suddenly don't have a problem with anymore.

So here's the question... is the dribble-down from engorged companies worth the critical services of our republic. Is it worth our national security? 'Think I'm being dramatic? Well, the impact of the 2017 tax cuts have been projected over the next ten years and the impact on the national debt is THAT bad.

Also, (and this is more perspective than dispute) there is the inescapable fact that the 2017 tax cuts took money previously allocated to our republic and put in in a globalized stock market that can be manipulated by anyone in the world that has the financial leverage, including Russian oligarchs and Saudi sheiks. In other words, trading in federal revenue for an elevated stock market is the opposite of "putting America first"

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Feb 16, 2020 22:31:25   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Navigator wrote:
Get yourself a globe and locate England;

I know where England is. I lived there for a while.

Navigator wrote:

it covers about 1% of the Earth's surface and until the 18th century the other 99% was pretty much as I described

Except for the colonies in North America, which were under English rule and therefore Common Law since they were established as far back as the 17th century. And really, that's all that matters in this debate because the dispute is over the U.S. legal system which is based on Common Law, a tradition that goes back to medieval England.

Navigator wrote:

and even in England the Magna Carta was only a small brake on the King until the 18th century.

It was the seed that started the tradition back in the 13th century. Common Law was well developed by the time the Americas were discovered in the 16th century.

Navigator wrote:

I did fail to include permanent resident but that has no relationship to the argument that if you find yourself in some body else's house, the owner of the house has the absolute right to remove you regardless of the reason you or you infant child find themselves there. It is, of course, that simple.

No, it's not. A house is private property, the United States isn't. You are comparing apples to t***sistor radios for crying out loud.

I think you're projecting what you think the rules SHOULD be... But t***h is different... The Defense of Infancy is a legitimate legal argument and it's the reason why no child under 11 can be convicted by the federal government.

Personally, I don't understand this white-knuckle defense of prosecuting children. I see people trying to justify these attacks on families, where their children are torn away and put in cages, by saying... "it's the law".

You don't find that d********g?

I remember that little dweeb Jeff Sessions, back when *he* was the "big" AG. He admitted to the atrocity just I as I had described it, as a warning to all the potential immigrants. You come here - we will take your kids away - you may never even see them again. Big scary words from a wee little prick. Point being... this BS isn't right.

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Feb 16, 2020 22:42:28   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
So... thanks for the banter folks... there was a few good ones, that made me think.. But I gotta big week ahead so catch y'all later.

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Feb 16, 2020 23:21:28   #
Navigator
 
straightUp wrote:
No, it's not. A house is private property, the United States isn't. You are comparing apples to t***sistor radios for crying out loud.

I think you're projecting what you think the rules SHOULD be... But t***h is different... The Defense of Infancy is a legitimate legal argument and it's the reason why no child under 11 can be convicted by the federal government.

Personally, I don't understand this white-knuckle defense of prosecuting children. I see people trying to justify these attacks on families, where their children are torn away and put in cages, by saying... "it's the law".

You don't find that d********g?

I remember that little dweeb Jeff Sessions, back when *he* was the "big" AG. He admitted to the atrocity just I as I had described it, as a warning to all the potential immigrants. You come here - we will take your kids away - you may never even see them again. Big scary words from a wee little prick. Point being... this BS isn't right.
No, it's not. A house is private property, the Uni... (show quote)


The attacks on the children came from their own families in 2014 and 2015 when they sent tens of thousands of their children thousands of miles through strange territory unaccompanied in the hopes their children would eventually anchor them in. The families attacked their children again the last few years by d**gging them again through Mexico, sometimes accompanying them and sometimes giving them up to others so those other adults could get in when the word got out if they brought a child it was a free ticket in. Rather than an attack on the families by the US government when they did cross the border, all were put in humanitarian facilities to be processed and, as with all criminals who commit crimes, their children were put in facilities for children while their parents were processed in adult facilities. None were put in cages; the pictures you saw of children in cages were taken during Obama's presidency. Blindness like yours is unexplainable as is your misquoting and slandering of people like Jeff Sessions and the use of emotional words like "atrocity" to erroneously describe the proper and humanitarian process these i******s went through once entering the US. Atrocity more accurately describes the hundreds of American "volunteers" sent to Mexico, Guatemala and Honduras to misinform and goad citizens of those countries to undertake dangerous journeys whose end result for most was not to be what they expected. Blah, blah, blah but what is the point? Your mind has been clouded by TDS and obviously fail to see the legitimate responsibility of a sovereign country to enforce an orderly flow of people through it borders and to remove those persons it finds within its borders who do not have its permission to be there.

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Feb 16, 2020 23:39:06   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
Navigator wrote:
The attacks on the children came from their own families in 2014 and 2015 when they sent tens of thousands of their children thousands of miles through strange territory unaccompanied in the hopes their children would eventually anchor them in. The families attacked their children again the last few years by d**gging them again through Mexico, sometimes accompanying them and sometimes giving them up to others so those other adults could get in when the word got out if they brought a child it was a free ticket in. Rather than an attack on the families by the US government when they did cross the border, all were put in humanitarian facilities to be processed and, as with all criminals who commit crimes, their children were put in facilities for children while their parents were processed in adult facilities. None were put in cages; the pictures you saw of children in cages were taken during Obama's presidency. Blindness like yours is unexplainable as is your misquoting and slandering of people like Jeff Sessions and the use of emotional words like "atrocity" to erroneously describe the proper and humanitarian process these i******s went through once entering the US. Atrocity more accurately describes the hundreds of American "volunteers" sent to Mexico, Guatemala and Honduras to misinform and goad citizens of those countries to undertake dangerous journeys whose end result for most was not to be what they expected. Blah, blah, blah but what is the point? Your mind has been clouded by TDS and obviously fail to see the legitimate responsibility of a sovereign country to enforce an orderly flow of people through it borders and to remove those persons it finds within its borders who do not have its permission to be there.
The attacks on the children came from their own fa... (show quote)


Ask the Europeans how they feel about the influx of immigrants to their countries. Most now regret it.

Reply
 
 
Feb 17, 2020 08:21:06   #
son of witless
 
dtucker300 wrote:
Let me point out to you what your problem was. You were using common sense! If it's so common why don't more people have it? The Democrats, using their Common Core New Math will tell you that the deficits are not caused by too much government spending as government continues to expand exponentially, but rather too little tax revenue from the top earners, even though the top ten percent pay more than half the federal budget. How can that be if they are always avoiding paying taxes? Must be from using that Common Core math they keep foisting upon all the kids.
Let me point out to you what your problem was. Yo... (show quote)


Since HE did not answer me, I am happy you did and explained it to me. Since Liberal C*******ts took over the AmeriKan Education System in the late 60s-early 70s I have been unable to keep up with all of their advances in theory and practice.

I thank God that at least the teachers who taught me through third grade in the early 60s still were old school. We were grounded in the basics. When I hit Junior and high School I had a combination of old and new. Old was far better.

My kids in the 90s were subject to a lot of incompetent instruction. My younger daughter in particular got messed up when they stopped teaching phonics. It took years to fix. My older daughter's 4th grade math homework was totally not understandable, when she brought it home. I felt I should have gotten some of her teacher's salary for t***slating it into something she could learn.

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Feb 17, 2020 08:37:35   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Rose42 wrote:
Love that gif.


😁

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Feb 17, 2020 08:44:15   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Barracuda2020 wrote:
You must have found that one saved from one of your lovely radical right-leaning conservative bigoted anti-left sites or is it just a coincidence, LOL


I don’t believe it came from a sight at all other than a picture sight such as photobucket or another such place...

Love this tho~~ right-leaning conservative bigoted anti-left sites or is it just a coincidence, LOL~~~ see you’re in good humor today.. So am I~~~😂😂😄👍

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Feb 17, 2020 08:47:29   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
JFlorio wrote:
Obviously you don't listen to Tucker. Who'd of thought that with the tolerance you show? Tucker bash's Republicans all the time. He is more of a Policy or Law "disputer". He calls out both sides all the time.


He does hammer both sides equally..👍 Its why he catches hell from both sides as well~~

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Feb 17, 2020 08:58:40   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
straightUp wrote:
Oh, I know. No one is expecting Trump or McConnell's Senate to sign on with anything the Democrats put forward. So until the Democrats get control OR the Republicans head back to moderate territory these bills and movements are purely symbolic which is not without value. It gives us confidence in our own convictions.


All for show on both sides is what it boils down to~~ how about some business for the country?? This stalemate BS has gotten rather old, don’t you think?? How many bills did Reid can never bringing to the floor?? Pay backs and karma go a long way in accomplishing nothing!!!

Where you get confidence I have nothing but disgust...

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Feb 17, 2020 09:00:05   #
Cuda2020
 
JFlorio wrote:
Obviously you don't listen to Tucker. Who'd of thought that with the tolerance you show? Tucker bash's Republicans all the time. He is more of a Policy or Law "disputer". He calls out both sides all the time.


Ah yes, I'll take your OPINION into consideration, which is considerably more than you do with me. I've listened to him...enough.

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Feb 17, 2020 09:46:10   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
Morning LJ. Why not just once a clean bill?About one topic and not written by a staff of attorneys so the American people can have their legitimate input. I believe the weasels in congress only name the Bills, if they even do that.
lindajoy wrote:
All for show on both sides is what it boils down to~~ how about some business for the country?? This stalemate BS has gotten rather old, don’t you think?? How many bills did Reid can never bringing to the floor?? Pay backs and karma go a long way in accomplishing nothing!!!

Where you get confidence I have nothing but disgust...

Reply
Feb 17, 2020 10:33:10   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
JFlorio wrote:
Morning LJ. Why not just once a clean bill?About one topic and not written by a staff of attorneys so the American people can have their legitimate input. I believe the weasels in congress only name the Bills, if they even do that.


Too many won’t agree to the clean bill unless this or that is added... Called appeasement and buying the v**e “for”!if they add a bunch of stuff for others!! Usually the stuff added would never be sustained Or has already been kicked down by wh**ever group so they sneak it in helping passage because of the alleged original intent of the bill. Absolutely correct in that the bill drawn is by lawyers and the title goes to whoever authored the “purpose of the bill.” Likewise, often one person will be given credit for the bill when in fact it was cosponsored by any number of people...Done for name recognition showing how they are bettering our country so they can use it later in their campaigns...

The American people can have a legitimate say-so in the bills being considered, they just don’t go the extra mile to challenge that bill and call for reduction or constitutional violation or suppression of the people. Most don’t even know what bills are being drawn because our Congress likes to hide that from us until it’s law.The only for the people organization I know fight tooth and nail is the judicial watch they are constantly suing the government and I love every minute of it! I support them because they truly are for the people by the people....

You would be surprised at how many things you were able to get if we just bothered to do it. Public records are not excluded in government either....

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