One Political Plaza - Home of politics
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main
New Way Forward Act Bill.....Is it good for America??
Page <<first <prev 7 of 9 next> last>>
Feb 16, 2020 10:25:40   #
Cuda2020
 
lindajoy wrote:
A lot of our standing immigration bills would have to go away~~

Such radical and self-destructive legislation has already been proposed.
It’s called the New Way Forward Act (H.R. 5383), and it goes way beyond Hillary Clinton’s 2013 call for a “hemispheric common market” with “open borders,” according to commentator Tucker Carlson. In fact, it would be the c**p de grâce to our already balkanized country, reflecting a radical new Democratic Party that views our nation as “a rogue state, in which everything must be destroyed and remade: our laws, our institutions, our freedoms, our history and our values,” ..

end automatic deportation for all crimes, including robbery, fraud, and child sexual abuse;
• make aliens who falsify passports immune from deportation, period;
• raise the minimum sentence triggering deportation, for crimes that still require it, from one to five years. Note that “crimes like car theft, fraud, and weapons offenses all carry average prison sentences of fewer than five years,” informs Carlson. Moreover, some rapists, child abusers, and even k**lers receive less time than that. Yet aliens thus convicted would stay in our country and eventually receive citizenship;
• allow anti-American immigration judges to nullify deportation orders even for aliens with five-year-plus sentences;
• allow drug addicts and those convicted of drug crimes abroad to immigrate to the U.S;
• decriminalize illegal entry, even for the previously deported. The NWFA asserts that “criminalizing illegal entry … is ‘w***e s*********t,’” relates Carlson; and
• effectively abolish all enforcement against illegal migration.
In summary, it would be much harder arresting i******s than arresting you. “They’re the protected class here. You’re just some loser who’s paying for it all,” laments Carlson.
As for the aforementioned “right to come home,” it would include tens of thousands of aliens expelled from our country for manifold crimes: “Sexual abuse. Robbery. Assault. Drug trafficking, weapons trafficking, human trafficking,” Carlson further reports.
In fact, from “2002 to 2018, 480,000 people were deported for illegal entry or reentry into America,” Carlson continues. The NWFA would force us to buy them all plane tickets back here — costing approximately a billion dollars — “and that’s before Democrats make you start paying for these criminals’ free health care, too. Which they plan to,” Carlson adds.
It’s not surprising the mainstream media have suppressed this story. It reveals, right before an e******n and in stark terms, the new Democratic Party’s face: radical, anti-American, angry, and bent on our nation’s destruction.
Of course, as with most all of today’s illegal and legal immigrants, the vast majority of these “new Americans” would v**e Democratic. That’s the whole idea, too: The Left wants an “entirely new country, in which resistance is crushed, and they’re in charge forever,” Carlson concludes.
The NWFA won’t likely pass and be signed into law anytime soon. But know that this is precisely what the Democrats’ ascendant AOC/Sanders wing — which will one day control the whole party — has in store for us. They are the Enemy Within...
A lot of our standing immigration bills would have... (show quote)


Ah yes...according to commentator Tucker Carlson, no propaganda there...

Reply
Feb 16, 2020 10:39:15   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
Barracuda2020 wrote:
Ah yes...according to commentator Tucker Carlson, no propaganda there...


Obviously you don't listen to Tucker. Who'd of thought that with the tolerance you show? Tucker bash's Republicans all the time. He is more of a Policy or Law "disputer". He calls out both sides all the time.

Reply
Feb 16, 2020 12:16:11   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
fullspinzoo wrote:
Clean up what mess? what are you talking about? you mean like the doubling of the deficit in 8 years

It was more than double and it was the cost of cleaning up the mess created by Bush when he crashed the economy (it's seems you forgot that one) and it didn't take 8 years because the economy was already tanked when Obama got there so the cost paid to clean up the mess happened in his first term, in his second term he was able to bring the deficit back down again.

I'm all out of sock puppets but maybe a picture will help...



See how the deficit spiked in Obama's first two years, then decreased almost down to the levels they were at before Bush f'ed up? Oh, but wait! Look at what's happening now that we have another Republican in office ...the deficit is rising again! Obama was bailing out our industries to save jobs because of the Great Recession, what the hell is Trump's excuse? Oh, that's right - giving tax breaks to the wealthy. LOL

fullspinzoo wrote:

businesses going under because of all the regs,

If businesses can't handle the regs they don't deserve to stay in business. There's plenty of talent out that that can take over the business AND handle the regs and it's happening all around us. Green tech for instance is thriving and Americans certainly aren't lacking from the failure of old decrepit businesses. Reagan called this creative-destruction. New industries call it disruption. I call it good old fashioned competition. Weak losers blame it on regulations... "They're not fair - whaaah!"

fullspinzoo wrote:

the economy sluggish at best during that same period....

Oh, time for another picture.



Once again the facts show how ignorant you are. As you can see real GDP (the actual size of our economy) started ramping back up once Obama was able to fix the Bush mess and the growth rate is pretty consistent.

This is why Republicans h**e facts so much - it really screws with their fantasies.

fullspinzoo wrote:

and the list goes on.

Oh, I'm sure it does - LOL

Reply
 
 
Feb 16, 2020 12:31:55   #
jSmitty45 Loc: Fl born, lived in Texas 30 yrs, now Louisiana
 
proud republican wrote:
Sanders does not stand a chance of winning Presidency!! American people are not stupid!!!


👍👍👍👍

Reply
Feb 16, 2020 12:45:21   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Barracuda2020 wrote:
It's not as much as where would Trump be, the frightening thought is where would we be, and that question might get answered quicker then we would like, if Trump were to get re-elected...sigh, but I don't see that happening, or maybe my mind can't go there?


Well, think of it this way. *IF* Trump is elected to a second term, which is unlikely but not impossible he will have enough rope to hang himself. Trump has been very lucky so far because he's riding on a strong economy that he inherited from Obama.

The fact is we have only had two years of Trump budgets so far, 2018 and 2019. (The 2017 budget was proposed by Obama not Trump.) We are already seeing signs of economic stress resulting from Trump's two years of influence but so far they have not exceeded the momentum of Obama's economic recovery, but that's not going to last much longer. Trump's influence will soon take over and we will start to feel the effects and in a sense it might be better that he stay in office to take the blame for his own economic stupidity, instead of giving Republican i***ts the chance to blame it on an incoming Democrat, which is what usually happens.

I realize there is much more to worry about. The environment for instance but as you can see many local and state governments are resisting Trump's call to pollute the Earth. This in itself is an interesting development and I have to admit I'm pretty excited about the way states like NY and CA are telling Trump to f-off. It's invigorating. I'm not saying we aren't still left with a problem nation-wide, we all share the same air and most states are too weak to stand up to Trump and too stupid to know why they should.

Probably the most dangerous threat of all is the way Trump is being used to flush the liberals out of the judicial system. That's a tough one and as much as I want Trump supporters to pull their heads out of their asses I don't think they will - at least not soon enough, so the middle class is in for a rough ride.

In 20 years from now... we will probably be looking at a much more socialist America that will credit Trump for pushing the middle-class to the breaking point. Already, socialism is on the rise BECAUSE of Trump. Maybe in the long term, Trump is that "rock-bottom" that America might need to start recovering from its current s***e-mentality.

One can hope.

Reply
Feb 16, 2020 12:54:52   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Barracuda2020 wrote:
Ah yes...according to commentator Tucker Carlson, no propaganda there...


Reply
Feb 16, 2020 13:08:16   #
son of witless
 
straightUp wrote:
Oh, I'm sure it does - LOL


" See how the deficit spiked in Obama's first two years, then decreased almost down to the levels they were at before Bush f'ed up? "

Look at Obama's total. His best year was barely better than Bush's worst year. Again, look at the total.

Reply
 
 
Feb 16, 2020 13:09:17   #
fullspinzoo
 
straightUp wrote:
Well, think of it this way. *IF* Trump is elected to a second term, which is unlikely but not impossible he will have enough rope to hang himself. Trump has been very lucky so far because he's riding on a strong economy that he inherited from Obama.

The fact is we have only had two years of Trump budgets so far, 2018 and 2019. (The 2017 budget was proposed by Obama not Trump.) We are already seeing signs of economic stress resulting from Trump's two years of influence but so far they have not exceeded the momentum of Obama's economic recovery, but that's not going to last much longer. Trump's influence will soon take over and we will start to feel the effects and in a sense it might be better that he stay in office to take the blame for his own economic stupidity, instead of giving Republican i***ts the chance to blame it on an incoming Democrat, which is what usually happens.

I realize there is much more to worry about. The environment for instance but as you can see many local and state governments are resisting Trump's call to pollute the Earth. This in itself is an interesting development and I have to admit I'm pretty excited about the way states like NY and CA are telling Trump to f-off. It's invigorating. I'm not saying we aren't still left with a problem nation-wide, we all share the same air and most states are too weak to stand up to Trump and too stupid to know why they should.

Probably the most dangerous threat of all is the way Trump is being used to flush the liberals out of the judicial system. That's a tough one and as much as I want Trump supporters to pull their heads out of their asses I don't think they will - at least not soon enough, so the middle class is in for a rough ride.

In 20 years from now... we will probably be looking at a much more socialist America that will credit Trump for pushing the middle-class to the breaking point. Already, socialism is on the rise BECAUSE of Trump. Maybe in the long term, Trump is that "rock-bottom" that America might need to start recovering from its current s***e-mentality.

One can hope.
Well, think of it this way. *IF* Trump is elected ... (show quote)


Inherited from Obama? What a crock. Obama never set a record in the stock mkt during his first term. Obama never went above 2.9 GDP annually for all 8 years. Compared to Trump: Trump has already set records in the DOW over 144 times. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/how-trump-has-set-economic-growth-on-fire.html

Reply
Feb 16, 2020 13:13:23   #
Navigator
 
straightUp wrote:
This is where I point out that YOU are the one who doesn't fully comprehend the situation. First of all, our judicial system has never lost it's awareness that "improper entry" into the U.S. is a crime.

That being said, there are exceptions to the law that the Trump administration has incorrectly ignored, such as something called 'Defense of Infancy", which is based on yet another 13th century rule of common law called doli incapax. The basic idea is that children can't be guilty of crimes they are too young to understand. Even in those dark barbaric days, people were apparently more humane than Trump.

So let me put this together for you...

1. It is NOT illegal for undocumented immigrants to BE in the U.S. The basis for calling them "illegal" is the assumption that to BE in the U.S. an immigrant would have had to cross our border and if they don't do it legally it's considered "improper entry", which *IS* a crime.

2. But if the immigrant is a baby being carried across the border by his mother, it's fair to assume he is too young to understand the crime and can therefore be defended by our legal Defense of Infancy.

3. Even if after that baby grows to adulthood he is innocent of crime so long as he stays within the borders because again, it's not illegal to BE in the U.S.

4. Obama recognized this legal predicament and asked Congress to legislate a solution as to what to do in these particular cases (childhood arrivals).

5. Congress refused to act, so Obama signed an executive order to defer action on childhood arrivals until
Congress can get their thumbs out of their asses. The executive order is aptly called "deferred action on childhood arrivals (DACA).

6. Congress never did take any action and they probably won't until the Democrats take over. Meanwhile, Trump has been doing everything possible to k**l DACA and subject childhood arrivals, many of whom have grown up and established families in the U.S. to deportation because of a crime they have unjustly been accused of.

7. After a century of i*********n l*ws it was only AFTER Trump attacked DACA that cities across the nation rightfully decided to resist with declarations of sanctuary.

So, the bottom line is... Sanctuary cities are refusing to yield to Trump because HE is the one breaking the rules and tearing families apart in the process and yes... treating them like animals.

Now, I understand that some people are nasty bigots... Some of them just straight up h**e immigrants (that's always been a problem in America) and these bigots will try to stereotype immigrants by their worst examples while ignoring the legal defense of infancy or the legal difference between BEING in the U.S. and ENTERING the U.S. and their rants are parroted right here on OPP all too often.
This is where I point out that YOU are the one who... (show quote)


Claiming 700 years of judicial process is about twice as long as it actually existed. Until the 18th century the common state was the king, lord, sultan wh**ever declared an edict and people's possessions up to and including their lives were then taken at will without due process. When someone was actually brought before a court it was only when the king couldn't avoid it or when disputes were between common people. Ancient history being what it is you are still barking up the wrong tree. If a person is in the country and is not a natural born or naturalized citizen or is not in possession of a valid visa or tourist document, they have entered the country illegally and are in an illegal status, even if an infant. Felony, misdemeanor or civil infraction or infant exception, they are not in the country where they are legal citizens and, since not authorized by this country to be here are subject to deportation and no trial should be required. If you snuck your family into France and lived there illegally for 5 years and then where discovered by the French police and deported without trial would you consider yourself and your family to have been unfairly "punished"? A logical, reasonable person would answer "of course not"; you and your family would have merely been returned to where you belonged and should be grateful for the time you got to spend illegally in France. Another consideration: if you were a person of color, would you consider France "r****t" for sending you back to the US? How about anti-Semitic if you were Jewish? How about anti-white if the police who arrested you were of color? Again, a reasonable, logical person would answer "of course not". You were wrongly in a place you didn't belong and were rightfully returned.

Reply
Feb 16, 2020 13:52:09   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
lindajoy wrote:
Free to do as you please.~~ go for it.. many others don’t support it so a wash isn’t necessarily what will come over it..Senate and Trump will not approve it and you know or should know this??

Oh, I know. No one is expecting Trump or McConnell's Senate to sign on with anything the Democrats put forward. So until the Democrats get control OR the Republicans head back to moderate territory these bills and movements are purely symbolic which is not without value. It gives us confidence in our own convictions.

Reply
Feb 16, 2020 14:27:49   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Navigator wrote:
Claiming 700 years of judicial process is about twice as long as it actually existed. Until the 18th century the common state was the king, lord, sultan wh**ever declared an edict and people's possessions up to and including their lives were then taken at will without due process. When someone was actually brought before a court it was only when the king couldn't avoid it or when disputes were between common people.

Do yourself a favor. Look up "Magna Carta". Follow your own discoveries from there. When you find yourself realizing that there's a difference between absolute monarchy and constitutional monarchy and that Britain hasn't been an absolute monarchy since 1215, get back to me. While your at it, look up Common Law. It's actually a thing and it's not called the "common state".

Navigator wrote:

Ancient history being what it is you are still barking up the wrong tree.

You're the one who told me I have to go way back - remember?

Navigator wrote:

If a person is in the country and is not a natural born or naturalized citizen or is not in possession of a valid visa or tourist document, they have entered the country illegally and are in an illegal status.

That is incorrect. First of all, I don't know if you have ever heard of a green card but it's not a visa and it's not a tourist document (wh**ever that is). It's a document that says the holder is a permanent resident. Do you know what that is? It's a person who was neither born here nor naturalized but that person has a legal right to reside here and work here indefinitely.

Navigator wrote:

even if an infant.

I'm not going to explain the Defense of Infancy again. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Navigator wrote:

Felony, misdemeanor or civil infraction or infant exception, they are not in the country where they are legal citizens and, since not authorized by this country to be here are subject to deportation and no trial should be required.

LOL - please tell me what you think "infant exception" is. In the meantime, I'll just point out that you don't HAVE to be a citizen to be here legally. You have to be a citizen to v**e, that is the ONLY advantage a citizen has over a resident alien.

Navigator wrote:

If you snuck your family into France and lived there illegally for 5 years and then where discovered by the French police and deported without trial would you consider yourself and your family to have been unfairly "punished"? A logical, reasonable person would answer "of course not"; you and your family would have merely been returned to where you belonged and should be grateful for the time you got to spend illegally in France.

A logical and reasonable person would have questions about the case before jumping to childish conclusions. Such as what dangers do they face back where they came from. BTW, the French actually do this. They concern themselves with the welfare of all humans because they are a shining example of civilized nation. We were too for a while there.

Navigator wrote:

Another consideration: if you were a person of color, would you consider France "r****t" for sending you back to the US?

Not if they had valid reasons sending me back. And no, the color of my skin is not a valid reason.

Navigator wrote:

How about anti-Semitic if you were Jewish?

Not all Jews are of Semitic origin. Arabs are. I'll give you some time to think that one over.

Navigator wrote:

How about anti-white if the police who arrested you were of color? Again, a reasonable, logical person would answer "of course not". You were wrongly in a place you didn't belong and were rightfully returned.

Again, "a reasonable, logical person" would ask more questions before jumping to childish conclusions.

Look, I understand that people often want to simplify things to levels they can understand, but if your going to debate these issues you should really get a better handle on the complexity that comes with reality.

I hope you make the effort to learn more about the world around you and I wish you luck.

Reply
 
 
Feb 16, 2020 14:46:35   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
son of witless wrote:
" See how the deficit spiked in Obama's first two years, then decreased almost down to the levels they were at before Bush f'ed up? "

Look at Obama's total. His best year was barely better than Bush's worst year. Again, look at the total.


The total of what? Deficits aren't accumulative. You DO realize we're talking about the deficit not the debt, right?

So, I'm looking at the chart and to be honest I don't see where the deficit was better in ANY of Obama's years. And how could it be? Did you miss where I explained WHY the deficit spiked under Obama? It's spiked because Bush f'ed up the economy so bad that we now call it the "Great Recession" And Obama was the one who had to get the government to bail out the industries that crashed with the economy. It's called saving jobs and it came at a cost, which is what you see in the chart.

In other words, the effect happened under Obama, the cause happened under Bush.

I think the biggest story in the picture though is the new spike under Trump because there's no cause for it. That's just really bad management. Trump really sucks at this. And if people weren't such suckers for political BS they would see it.

Reply
Feb 16, 2020 15:30:50   #
Navigator
 
straightUp wrote:
Again, "a reasonable, logical person" would ask more questions before jumping to childish conclusions.

Look, I understand that people often want to simplify things to levels they can understand, but if your going to debate these issues you should really get a better handle on the complexity that comes with reality.

I hope you make the effort to learn more about the world around you and I wish you luck.


Get yourself a globe and locate England; it covers about 1% of the Earth's surface and until the 18th century the other 99% was pretty much as I described and even in England the Magna Carta was only a small brake on the King until the 18th century. I did fail to include permanent resident but that has no relationship to the argument that if you find yourself in some body else's house, the owner of the house has the absolute right to remove you regardless of the reason you or you infant child find themselves there. It is, of course, that simple.

Reply
Feb 16, 2020 19:23:20   #
son of witless
 
straightUp wrote:
The total of what? Deficits aren't accumulative. You DO realize we're talking about the deficit not the debt, right?

So, I'm looking at the chart and to be honest I don't see where the deficit was better in ANY of Obama's years. And how could it be? Did you miss where I explained WHY the deficit spiked under Obama? It's spiked because Bush f'ed up the economy so bad that we now call it the "Great Recession" And Obama was the one who had to get the government to bail out the industries that crashed with the economy. It's called saving jobs and it came at a cost, which is what you see in the chart.

In other words, the effect happened under Obama, the cause happened under Bush.

I think the biggest story in the picture though is the new spike under Trump because there's no cause for it. That's just really bad management. Trump really sucks at this. And if people weren't such suckers for political BS they would see it.
The total of what? Deficits aren't accumulative. Y... (show quote)


" The total of what? Deficits aren't accumulative. You DO realize we're talking about the deficit not the debt, right? "

You are obviously better informed than I. All of this time, I was thinking that deficits caused the national debt to go up. All of this time I was thinking that the national debt was an accumulation of all of the yearly deficits that happened previously, so that if you had 8 years of extraordinary deficits, it did not matter that your last year was relatively good, because each year you had increased the national debt tremendously.

I see I was sadly mistaken. As long as you can get your last year's deficit much lower when compared to your ginormous previous years, you can claim you hardly increased the national debt at all.

I am thankful to you for splaining the new math to me. I thought I was fairly smart with arithmetic, but obviously I am fortunate to have you as a math tutor.

" Did you miss where I explained WHY the deficit spiked under Obama? It's spiked because Bush f'ed up the economy so bad that we now call it the "Great Recession" And Obama was the one who had to get the government to bail out the industries that crashed with the economy. It's called saving jobs and it came at a cost, which is what you see in the chart. "

Since you did such a fine job straightening out my faulty Mathematics education, maybe you would do me the further favor of informing my which industries crashed the economy, so that President Obama could bail them, out. I used to think I knew all about it, but obviously you know better.

Reply
Feb 16, 2020 19:48:54   #
Fodaoson Loc: South Texas
 
I just realized how talented some of the posters on opp are. They can rewrite history, Interpret the Bible, rewrite the Bible revise the English language.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 7 of 9 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main
OnePoliticalPlaza.com - Forum
Copyright 2012-2024 IDF International Technologies, Inc.