Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Yeah, I like the sound of it because it is true. And, I have attempted to explain this a number of times, but either this was ignored, summarily denied, or some godawful attempt to refute it popped up with pages of confusing sermons in four parts apparently proclaiming the unfounded glories of an abstract and impersonal monadic divinity.

Yeshua (meaning Yahweh is salvation) was God in the flesh. He came here and dwelt among us to bless us with a truly personal relationship with Him (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). No other religion ever experienced such a marvelous thing. Yeshua ha Massiach prayed with His disciples and followers, He blessed them, taught them, comforted them, and healed them. He traveled with them, He dined with them, He sailed with them, fished with them, He bathed with them, and He nourished an unimaginably powerful loving relationship with them - Our loving God in the flesh.

The Old Testament prophets told the complete story of His coming, His birth, His ministry, His mission and its purpose. To deny the divinity of Yeshua ha Massiach not only renders His sacrifice meaningless, it denies the credibility of the divinely inspired Old Testament prophets and renders their prophesies also meaningless.

He was wounded for our t***sgression, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
Isaiah - 600 BC.

The Romans crucified thousands of Jews in those days, why then did the crucifixion of just one more Jew have such a monumental impact on mankind and change the course of history? The death of the Messiah and his resurrection from the dead is the heart and soul of the Christian faith. Only Yahweh Himself can forgive us our sins, and that is what He came here to do.

Our Lord's suffering began in Gethsemane with His anguished prayers, followed by one of the most severe f**gellations the Roman brutes could inflict. It was a terribly wounded Savior who was then nailed to the cross. As physically excruciating as a Roman crucifixion was, His physical suffering was nothing compared to the spiritual pain of carrying the burden of all human sin on His shoulders and defeating death with the forgiveness of all sins and the promise of eternal life with Him in Heaven. No human being, no matter how righteous or saintly he or she could possibly be, could accomplish such a thing.

On the day I was baptized in a beautiful desert warm spring with 11 adults and 9 children, including a 6 month old baby, I have felt His presence, Kyle, I have experienced His grace, I have seen His Light, He has been with me in Spirit and He has guided me through the briars and brambles of life on earth. I have taken on many inspiring challenges since that day, some I doubted I could ever complete, and He, Yeshua, our Lord and Savior, answered every prayer in guiding me through.

The Temple Menorah and the communion cup shown here were two such projects. Hand carved, crafted and finished out of western cottonwood without the benefit of a wood shop or any power tools other than a Dremel and a drill, the menorah (my sister's idea) took me six months, or should I say it took Yeshua six months, to guide me over the plateaus and out of the dead ends. 36 parts crafted for nearly perfect fits with detailing I never thought I could achieve with just carving knives, chisels, and sand paper. Many times, I had to lay down my tools and pray.

The communion cup was carved and finished from a single branch of cotton wood. I wanted something that would symbolize five fingers holding the cup, His fingers, and I felt that carving an actual hand would not only be difficult but would not convey what I had in mind. The result then is a representation of five fingers holding the cup.

I wish I could tell you the full story of my six month quest to produce the menorah, such as my many excursions into the wilderness where the cottonwood trees live and die to find just the right pieces for continuing with the project and the experiences I had there that had nothing to do with finding wood. Like the day after a heavy rain and I was dealing with a severe bout of diarrhea. I knew the wood would be wet but that was no problem, I went out there anyway. Five minutes or so after I arrived there and was preparing for my search, an attack of diarrhea hit me. I didn't have much time, I grabbed my entrenching tool and ran into the woods to get away from the creek and I was thinking of leaves and sticks with which to clean up. In a matter of seconds, I came into a clearing of nothing but damp sand and there it was. A full roll of toilet paper, dry as if it had just come out of its plastic package, sitting on end in the sunlight, bright, white, and clean. It doesn't matter how it got there, what matters is how I found it so quickly and at the time I needed it most. I can't explain it, other than to say I was led to it. Yeshua was the Master of my project, it was for his pleasure and praise that I took on the challenge. I have no doubt that He showed me the way. Yes, our Lord and Savior will provide even the little things for those who love Him.

It is odd that from all I put into my post, you would ask me the question the post was intended to answer.
I am reasonably certain that this testimonial will mean little to you, but there it is. Do with it as you wish, but don't ask me about this again.

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Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

I always enjoy hearing about your projects brother... And the stories behind them...

We'll have to agree to disagree on this... I find no argument above that would preclude Christ from being mortal...

He was the Messiah... Amen...

Beautiful work

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

In the flesh, my friend. Whether it be the soul of a human or the Spirit of God, in the flesh is mortal. We humans are not temporary bodies in possession of a soul, we are a soul in possession of a body. If God created us in His image, there is no reason whatsoever to think that He could not pay us a visit. In the flesh.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Agreed...

Good to see you on the forum again... You have been missed... Hope all is well..

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Thank You~~

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

Beautiful testimony! I have no doubt that the Lord’s purpose was fulfilled by your sharing it !

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

Rumi is angry. He was confronted in the religious section and this is his retribution. He doesn’t want a discussion, he wants a fight!

Lonewolf

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TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

Jesus said,
"6..."Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
8"For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men..." 9He said to them, "Full well do you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition... 13making void the word of God by your tradition, which you have handed down. You do many things like this." Mark 7:7-13.

It’s a simple principle: you either love the Lord by keeping his commandments, or your “love” for him is only lip service. The Trinity is a man-made tradition that makes the first commandment of no effect.

What did Jesus say is the first and foremost commandment?

28..."Which commandment is foremost of all?" 29Jesus answered, "The greatest is, 'Hear, Israel, the Lord our God (singular), the Lord (singular) is one (singular): 30you shall love the Lord (singular) your God (singular) with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.... 32The scribe said to him, "Truly, teacher, you have said well that he (singular) is one (singular), and there is none other but he (singular), 33and to love him (singular) with all the heart, and with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more important than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34When Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God.” Mark 12:28-34

There is no commandment otherwise to believe, “God is three coequal persons in one substance”. In fact, that is the “anti” Christian doctrine, because the word “Christ” = “anointing”, which means “given” or bestowed. So that anyone who calls Jesus by the title “Christ” is actually denying he is “God” by that title. It is thus “anti Christ” to claim “Christ” means he is “God”.

Jesus also said, “This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.“ John 17:3

Trinitarians simply don’t hold Jesus’ first commandment as an authoritative command. Why not? We have that answer from John:

“One who says, "I know him," and doesn't keep his commandments, is a liar, and the t***h isn't in him.” 1 John 2:4

Now, you say that the Trinity is a revelation. This is an admission that it is not “taught” in the Bible, that is, that it is not explained in detail, in the Bible. Paul commanded this:

“As I urged you... that you might command... men not to teach a different doctrine” 1 Timothy 1:3

It is a commandment to not teach things the apostles did not teach. Teach simply means to expound on and/or explain in detail. “doctrine” means “that which can be taught”. Nowhere does the Bible or did the apostles expound on or explain in detail that “God is a Trinity of three coequal persons in one substance.” That formulation comes from the traditions of men that make the commandments of God of no effect. Merely mentioning Father, Son and Holy Spirit does not equate to teaching or expounding that they can only be interpreted as “three coequal persons sharing one substance.” Therefore, it is obvious that, to teach the trinity of coequal persons, is to t***sgress both the first commandment and the commandment to teach no other doctrine. Therefore, the Trinity is not arrived at by applying “sound principles of biblical interpretation”. “No lie is of the t***h” 1 John 2:21.

Furthermore, Paul wasn’t the only one to warn against adding teachings or doctrines after the apostles were gone:

12Therefore I will not be negligent to remind you of these things, though you know them, and are established in the present t***h... 15Yes, I will make every effort that you may always be able to remember these things even after my departure.
16For we did not follow cunningly devised fables..." 2 Peter 2:12-21

Peter was adamant that his disciple be grounded in "the present t***h", not that which came later, or that which could be developed beyond what they openly declared or expounded on in detail.

Paul wrote:

"27for I didn't shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. 28Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood. 29For I know that after my departure, vicious wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30Men will arise from among your own selves, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them... 32Now, brothers, I entrust you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build up, and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified." Acts 20:27-32

It was these men that Paul warned of, that came after the apostles, from among themselves, that perverted the teachings of the apostles and added their “extrabiblical revelations”, just as you are doing. Therefore, you testify that since your “revelation” is a “teaching” (something that you shamelessly expound on beyond what the scripture says) that has added to the "whole counsel of God" that Paul delivered, making your extrabiblical teaching among the ones Paul claimed would come from those who would "speak perverse things”.

Paul wrote to Timothy:

"13But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But you remain in the things which you have learned and have been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them. 15From infancy, you have known the holy Scriptures which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith, which is in Christ Jesus. 16Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16

The holy Scriptures are complete, and yet they never expound in detail on the Trinity, it has to be imposed upon the Scriptures even to the point of negating the first commandment! Since the Trinity is not spelled out in the Scripture, it is therefore NOT a good work. And since people had to develop the doctrine after the apostles, and after the scriptures were completed, clearly, they are the ones whom Paul called "evil men and impostors".

Paul wrote the following:

“Now these things, brothers, I have in a figure t***sferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to think beyond the things which are written, that none of you be puffed up against one another.” 1 Corinthians 4:6

Here is another “sound principle of biblical interpretation” that Trinitarians reject because, clearly, they are not afraid to “think beyond the things that are written.” Therefore, because you admit your “revelation” of the Trinity is in fact a teaching beyond what is written in the Bible, it is an “extrabiblical revelation”, just like the extrabiblical (beyond what God said) revelation the serpent had in the Garden of Eden when he negated the first commandment in time. The difference is that the Trinity is a negation of the first commandment in importance, that is, in eternal importance, not just here on earth.

“Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the t***h is not in that person” 1 John 2:4

What did Jesus command? That God is three, or that God is one in the context of one personal pronoun? Obviously, the latter.

“If you love me, keep my commandments.” John 14:15

"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things which I say?” Luke 6:46

Now, you say “The bottom line is if Jesus was not the divine incarnation of Yahweh, then His sacrifice on the cross, His resurrection and ascension are meaningless.”

But that, again, is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches very clearly and explicitly that Jesus had to be human, and could only be human, in order to reverse the curse of death:

“21For since death came by man, the resurrection of the dead also came by man. 22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:21–22)”

12Therefore, as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death passed to all men, because all sinned... 15...For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many... 16The gift is not as through one who sinned: for the judgment came by one to condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses to justification...18So then as through one trespass, all men were condemned; even so through one act of righteousness, all men were justified to life. 19For as through the one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one will many be made righteous. (Romans 5:12–19)

These scriptures are referring to God’s original prophecy concerning a savior, in which nothing is said about him needing to be a “God-man hybrid”.

“14Yahweh God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this... 15I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel." Genesis 3:14-15

The genetic offspring of Eve was what God Himself said would crush the devil. Again, the bible never articulates the idea that the Messiah would be a God-man hybrid. Furthermore:

“Since then the children have shared in flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner partook of the same... Therefore he was obligated in all things to be made like his brothers, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people... (Hebrews 2:14–18)

This verse clearly disallows Christ as a God-man hybrid by clearly defining him as being made in all things like his brothers, and it teaches, that is, explains in detail the reason and purpose that this is so. This verse simply reiterated the description that God gave to Moses, namely that the Messiah would be like his brothers.

“24Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27For, "He put all things in subjection under his feet." But when he says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him. 28When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself (Gr. autos) be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.” 1 Corinthians 15:24-28

It isn’t a human nature that is subordinated here, it is his very person, his self, in the Greek autos “the reflexive pronoun self, used of the third person, and of the other persons.” Strong’s

To the contrary of what these scriptures expound in detail, Incarnationists such as you are parroting want us to believe that God had to “c***t” in order to save man. This again shows that Incarnationists make God out to be unrighteousness for arbitrarily deciding who gets saved and who gets lost. In t***h, God offers salvation through Christ for all who will follow in Christ’s steps in rejecting the world and its sinful system and choosing instead to submit to God through the man whom He has “anointed”, Jesus of Nazareth. Thus Peter proclaimed on the Day of Pentecost:

“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto (Gr. eis = unto) the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit!” Acts 2:38

But just as importantly is what Peter preached (openly declared) on the Day of Pentecost about what is to be believed about Jesus for salvation. In no way, and at no time did the apostles ever, anywhere they preached salvation in the Book of Acts, declare that Jesus was a second person in a “Trinity of three coequal persons in one substance”. To quite the contrary, he said this:

"22"Men of Israel, hear these words! Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved by God to you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as you yourselves know, 23him, being delivered up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by the hand of lawless men, crucified and k**led; 24whom God raised up, having freed him from the agony of death, because it was not possible that he should be held by it...
"2This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses...
"36"Let all the house of Israel therefore know certainly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified." Acts 2:22-36

And Paul, in the same exact way, proclaimed this:

"22For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’" Acts 3:22-23

And what Paul taught about what was openly proclaimed (preached) was this, which is, by anyone’s estimation, pretty strong language:

“6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach [openly declare] any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach [openly declare] any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:6–9)

“But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve in his craftiness, so your minds might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.” 2 Corinthians 11:3

So those who teach other doctrines, particularly those who teach a “different” Christ than the apostles taught and preached, aren’t to be “celebrated” or “honored” for their “creativity”, but held to be accursed!

“If you love me, keep my commandments.” John 14:15

"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things which I say?” Luke 6:46

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Wow, just have to commend all of you on some very practical, well written knowledge here.....Such a pleasure to read it all..

I can’t debate you as you have all done but I can say this~
i simply believe... I believe in the Trinity snd although I have questioned, doubted and failed many a time, this I know.. He walks with me and carries me forward even when I don’t think I can..
He loves me unconditionally and I, He...He feeds my heart, spirit and soul and I look to him to keep me in his loving, embrace, guiding me.. I do not question He, but do denominational churches, structured to entice their perish in an effort to sustain themselves.. Their teaching are of a specific thought process conducive to their laws laid before us. Not necessarily the actual word of God..

I am saved, and it is He I listen to through his teachings..When asked what denomination I am, I reply “ God” I mean that with every fiber of my spirt and soul which ultimately belongs to him... He gave us 10 commandments, albeit the hardest to achieve and all he wants us to do is love one another, gather together in his path and do no wrong to others.~~~

In all I do I try to just be a better person, helping where and if I can and there is not one person alive that can alter, change or even sway my conviction in our Lord, Jesus Christ. and the Holy Spirit..That simple and yet that complex.. A love committed to He above and based on my spirituality with He as my Teacher Savior and My Father..

Plenty to question in the “ teaching of God, Christianity, other beliefs, all to be Explored but I already know who I am in the face of my beliefS in our Lord... Learning everyday and Thankful for it I truly am..

While I may not know where I’m going in this lifetime, I surely know where I’m going in the end...

Love one another, live to please and live loving He above in Faith, who will bless you more than you could ever know..

Our Miracles are our Constant reminder he walks with us and will not for sake us....

Sorry for the sermon you just inspire me!!!❤️✨🙃

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Tommy has that effect

I enjoy his writing as well... Kind of a fan

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Well said Tommy...

I was waiting for you to make an appearance

Rose42

Beware of false teachers who seem to know much but their words are devoid of t***h. Intellectual knowledge is not heart knowledge and not all have ears to hear.

Blade_runner is not one to beware of.

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

Bless you, Lindajoy! Your name really says a lot about you, and it’s always a pleasure reading your words.

I for one certainly don’t begrudge or judge your simple view, rather, I admire it!

What I believe Jesus was concerned with wasn’t simple faith, it was, as in Mark 7:7-8, when he said, “But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men.”

This is a two part criticism on Jesus’ part. It isn’t merely holding views that are simplistic, uninformed, underdeveloped, novice or the like, alone. They are more than that. They are when people, men or women, teach man-made teachings as commandments and impose them on others as if they were God’s commandments, while at the same time negating what are God’s commandment(s).

This is what the theologians of the fourth century did beyond what any others had done before that time. Until that time, Christians had a lot of differences of positions and opinions, and openly discussed them with each other, but for the most part, such as extreme cases, they were nevertheless in fellowship.

It wasn’t, historically, until the Trinitarians developed their “coequal substance” doctrine in the fourth century, and made it anathema (illegal) to believe otherwise, that they started having the dissenters arrested and even murdered. This was the epitome of what Jesus criticized the Jews of in Matthew 15 and Mark 7. It was, after all, just that type of actions on the part of the Jews, that most g****red Jesus ire upon them!

How is it even possible to believe, that the same method the Jews used to make their worship void, according to Jesus, is supposedly the right method Trinitarians were able to apply, in order to arrive at the true commandment (formulated in man-made terms) by which to judge men against, which commandment was never even stated in God’s word, the Bible?

Armageddun Loc: The show me state

Amen and Amen Well written and researched.