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Trump Had Right to Withhold Ukraine Funds: GAO is Wrong
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Jan 19, 2020 07:07:20   #
jSmitty45 Loc: Fl born, lived in Texas 30 yrs, now Louisiana
 
DM wrote:
JFlorio: ...."according to the Obama administration?" You've got to be kidding! Obama is an authority
ON ANYTHING!...THE GUY WHO MASTERMINDED THE WHOLE SPYING EPISODE ON TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN
AND PRESIDENCY. OBAMA HAS NO AUTHORITY ON DOODLE POOP! A GUY PLANTED IN THE US AND
SENDS MONEY TO IRAN FOR THEM TO BE TERRORISTS....GIVE US ALL A GREAT.....BIG....BREAK!


Amen, and amen!

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 09:51:42   #
son of witless
 
useful mattoid 45 wrote:
So basically Trump self impeached for no obvious (to his base) reason. He's dumber than I thought


You can't self Impeach. Of course in your own blundering way you have just proved my point, although I doubt you are smart enough to understand. No, I am sure of it. You will never get what you just did.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 16:11:45   #
Radiance3
 
no propaganda please wrote:
Trump Had Right to Withhold Ukraine Funds: GAO is Wrong

by Alan M. Dershowitz
January 17, 2020 at 7:00 pm

The Constitution allocates to the president sole authority over foreign policy (short of declaring war or signing a treaty). It does not permit Congress to substitute its foreign policy preferences for those of the president.

To the extent that the statute at issue constrains the power of the president to conduct foreign policy, it is unconstitutional.

Even if the GAO were correct in its legal conclusion — which it is not — the alleged violation would be neither a crime nor an impeachable offense. It would be a civil violation subject to a civil remedy, as were the numerous violations alleged by the GAO with regard to other presidents.

If Congress and its GAO truly believe that President Trump violated the law, let them go to court and seek the civil remedy provided by the law.

The Constitution allocates to the president sole authority over foreign policy... It does not permit Congress to substitute its foreign policy preferences for those of the president. (U.S. National Archives and Records Administration, Wikipedia Commons)

U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) has gotten the constitutional law exactly backwards. It said that the "faithful execution of the law" — the Impoundment Control Act—"does not permit the president to substitute his own policy priorities for those congress has enacted into law ." Yes, it does — when it comes to foreign policy. The Constitution allocates to the president sole authority over foreign policy (short of declaring war or signing a treaty). It does not permit Congress to substitute its foreign policy preferences for those of the president.

To the extent that the statute at issue constrains the power of the president to conduct foreign policy, it is unconstitutional.

Consider the following hypothetical situation: Congress allocates funds to Cuba (or Iran or Venezuela). The president says that is inconsistent with his foreign policy and refuses to release the funds. Surely the president would be within his constitutional authority. Or consider the actual situation that former President Barack Obama created when he unilaterally made the Iran deal and sent that enemy of America billions of dollars without congressional approval. I do not recall the GAO complaining about that p**********l decision, despite the reality that the Iran deal was, in effect, a treaty that should require senate approval that was never given.

Wh**ever one may think about the substantive merits of what President Donald Trump did or did not do with regard to the Ukrainian money— which was eventually sent without strings —he certainly had the authority to delay sending the funds. The GAO was simply wrong in alleging that he violated the law, which includes the Constitution, by doing so.

To be sure, the statute requires notification to Congress, but if such notification significantly delays the president from implementing his foreign policy at a time of his choice, that too would raise serious constitutional issues.

Why then would a nonpartisan agency get it so wrong as a matter of constitutional law. There are two obvious answers: first, in the age of Trump there is no such thing as nonpartisan. The political word is largely divided into people who h**e and people who love President Trump. This is as true of long term civil servants as it is of partisan politicians. We have seen this with regard to the FBI, the CIA, the Fed and other government agencies that are supposed to be nonpartisan. There are of course exceptions such as the inspector general of the Department of Justice who seems genuinely non-partisan. But most civil servants share the nationwide trend of picking sides. The GAO does not seem immune to this d******eness.

Second, even if the GAO were non-partisan in the sense of preferring one political party over the other, it is partial to Congress over the president. The GAO is a congressional body. It is part of the legislative, not executive, branch. As such, it favors congressional prerogatives over executive power. It is not surprising therefore that it would elevate the authority of Congress to enact legislation over that of the president to conduct foreign policy.

In any event, even if the GAO were correct in its legal conclusion — which it is not— the alleged violation would be neither a crime nor an impeachable offense. It would be a civil violation subject to a civil remedy, as were the numerous violations alleged by the GAO with regard to other presidents. Those alleged violations were barely noted by the media. But in the hyper-partisan impeachment atmosphere, this report received breathless "breaking news" coverage and a demand for inclusion among the articles of impeachment.

If Congress and its GAO truly believe that President Trump violated the law, let them go to court and seek the civil remedy provided by the law. But let us not continue to water down the constitutional criteria for impeachment by including highly questionable, and on my view wrongheaded, views about violations of an unconstitutional civil law.

Alan M. Dershowitz is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law Emeritus at Harvard Law School and author of the book, Guilt by Accusation: The Challenge of Proving Innocence in the Age of #MeToo, Skyhorse Publishing, November 2019. He is a Distinguished Fellow at Gatestone Institute.
Trump Had Right to Withhold Ukraine Funds: GAO is ... (show quote)


================
N P, thank you for posting this. I had been looking for it.
This validated my argument the other day, that GAO was wrong concerning the its decision on finding the Office of the President in violation. This was seconded by professor Jonathan Turley.

GAO’s REPORT.
GAO declared that the president’s office withheld the military aid to Ukraine to be unlawful. Based on the Impoundment Control Act. Enacted in 1974.

Professor Dershowitz decisions.
The Constitution allocates to the president sole authority over foreign policy (short of declaring war or signing a treaty). It does not permit Congress to substitute its foreign policy preferences for those of the president.

This is Professor Turley stands.
GAO Declares Trump’s Action on Ukraine Aid to Be Unlawful
https://jonathanturley.org/2020/01/16/gao-declares-trumps-action-on-ukraine-aid-to-be-unlawful/#more-151494

There was 180-degree difference between these two professors.
Now, I found that professor Dershowitz was right. Based on the following.
1.P**********l separation of powers. Once the budget is released to OMB, the full responsibility lays on the shoulder of the president. Foreign Affairs business is under the President, and therefore policies and protocol are made to accomplish his duties. Failures of following them will be a dereliction of duty.
2.GAO could not fully render an independent decision because it directly reports to Congress. Independence is one of the General Audit Standard requirements.
3.Therefore, I have to agree with professor Dershowitz pronouncement.
4.The 7 years of my audit practice on state, and corporation, had always been independent otherwise I could not make an unqualified report for the for them. Note: Unqualified means meeting all audit standards on all GAAP financial reports being audited. No exceptions.
5.Consistency was also required on all GAAP financial reporting matters or other reporting audit matters. And therefore, I was consistent following professor Dershowitz’s decision.
6.I agree with him 100%. I question that of professor Turley. Both of them are brilliant professors in academic discipline.
7. The president therefore did not violate any of the Ukraine aid funding. The president under his executive power on foreign affairs, did follow all protocol/policies, before releasing the funds to Ukraine, ensuring the integrity, reliability, and meeting all required policies on conducting affairs with foreign states.

8. The delay of funding was not a violation, and therefore Congress could not use that as a reason to impeach the president. The president is innocent
9. The delay of aid did not materially affect any Ukraine policy for short delay. The president of Ukraine said so.
10. There are no issues on impeachment. They all have no merits.
11. The impeachment case MUST BE DISMISSED at the Senate. A waste of time and money of the taxpayers.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 18:34:04   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
JFlorio wrote:
He was required by law to release the funds by the end of September. He released them September 12. You are so clueless you’re dumb.


He really knows it, his lips are so tight on Obam's butt that he can't write the t***h as in think for himself.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 18:36:22   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
son of witless wrote:
Two points. Does running for President immunize Joe Biden from crime prosecution ? Second point. Biden is not Trump's political opponent. He was not an opponent at the time of the phone call. He is the opponent of the other Democrats on the stage. How can President Trump be accused of getting a foreign nation to dig up dirt on a political enemy, when Biden is not ?


Biden is a sorry old man, kind of lost who should be taking tea in his recliner. Is he a political enemy? He's a freakin crime boss.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 18:39:07   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
woodguru wrote:
What crime, the Biden issue has been beat up nine ways to sunday? The reality of what intelligence reported to the senate intelligence committee is far different than the Russian created Giuliani fantasy conspiracy...

this crap lives in the heads of the right and never will go away. The idea of having Biden testify is a right wing fantasy, and the GOP has enough sense to know they want nothing to do with it, it's a bluff to deter dems from relevant witnesses...and here's a newsflash, dems might just give them this thing they really don't want if it's pushed it would make the GOP look like pure fools to bring in the facts from intelligence that they already know.
What crime, the Biden issue has been beat up nine ... (show quote)


Ever watched TV? The video of an old man extorting Ukraine for $1.5 Billion dollars if they didn't fire the prosecutor. Asshole they could hire another.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 18:40:59   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
PeterS wrote:
That wasn't the point. If it was right for him to withhold the funds why did he release them? And don't tell me the law because he never cared about the law before!


Biden's quid pro quo was met.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 18:42:47   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
useful mattoid 45 wrote:
So basically Trump self impeached for no obvious (to his base) reason. He's dumber than I thought


Self impeached on 2 non-crimes genius. Now the senate just tears them up.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 18:45:14   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
useful mattoid 45 wrote:
I do detect the rwnj splutter that we are about to engage with for the next few days starting Tuesday.

It is hopefully going to come down to preserving our democracy and defending our e******ns from interference.

And that the majority of Americans are able to articulate that this is what they want to happen is essential.

A cover-up leaves a pretty bad stain.


Um I don't think so, you see whenever I return, I don't plan to answer libs much, if at all.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 20:10:06   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
In 2014 the GAO declared trading for Beau Bergdahl was a criminal act. Looks like the Democrats ignored that one.
Radiance3 wrote:
================
N P, thank you for posting this. I had been looking for it.
This validated my argument the other day, that GAO was wrong concerning the its decision on finding the Office of the President in violation. This was seconded by professor Jonathan Turley.

GAO’s REPORT.
GAO declared that the president’s office withheld the military aid to Ukraine to be unlawful. Based on the Impoundment Control Act. Enacted in 1974.

Professor Dershowitz decisions.
The Constitution allocates to the president sole authority over foreign policy (short of declaring war or signing a treaty). It does not permit Congress to substitute its foreign policy preferences for those of the president.

This is Professor Turley stands.
GAO Declares Trump’s Action on Ukraine Aid to Be Unlawful
https://jonathanturley.org/2020/01/16/gao-declares-trumps-action-on-ukraine-aid-to-be-unlawful/#more-151494

There was 180-degree difference between these two professors.
Now, I found that professor Dershowitz was right. Based on the following.
1.P**********l separation of powers. Once the budget is released to OMB, the full responsibility lays on the shoulder of the president. Foreign Affairs business is under the President, and therefore policies and protocol are made to accomplish his duties. Failures of following them will be a dereliction of duty.
2.GAO could not fully render an independent decision because it directly reports to Congress. Independence is one of the General Audit Standard requirements.
3.Therefore, I have to agree with professor Dershowitz pronouncement.
4.The 7 years of my audit practice on state, and corporation, had always been independent otherwise I could not make an unqualified report for the for them. Note: Unqualified means meeting all audit standards on all GAAP financial reports being audited. No exceptions.
5.Consistency was also required on all GAAP financial reporting matters or other reporting audit matters. And therefore, I was consistent following professor Dershowitz’s decision.
6.I agree with him 100%. I question that of professor Turley. Both of them are brilliant professors in academic discipline.
7. The president therefore did not violate any of the Ukraine aid funding. The president under his executive power on foreign affairs, did follow all protocol/policies, before releasing the funds to Ukraine, ensuring the integrity, reliability, and meeting all required policies on conducting affairs with foreign states.

8. The delay of funding was not a violation, and therefore Congress could not use that as a reason to impeach the president. The president is innocent
9. The delay of aid did not materially affect any Ukraine policy for short delay. The president of Ukraine said so.
10. There are no issues on impeachment. They all have no merits.
11. The impeachment case MUST BE DISMISSED at the Senate. A waste of time and money of the taxpayers.
================ br i N P, thank you for posting ... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 20:14:58   #
Airforceone
 
no propaganda please wrote:
Trump Had Right to Withhold Ukraine Funds: GAO is Wrong

by Alan M. Dershowitz
January 17, 2020 at 7:00 pm

The Constitution allocates to the president sole authority over foreign policy (short of declaring war or signing a treaty). It does not permit Congress to substitute its foreign policy preferences for those of the president.

To the extent that the statute at issue constrains the power of the president to conduct foreign policy, it is unconstitutional.

Even if the GAO were correct in its legal conclusion — which it is not — the alleged violation would be neither a crime nor an impeachable offense. It would be a civil violation subject to a civil remedy, as were the numerous violations alleged by the GAO with regard to other presidents.

If Congress and its GAO truly believe that President Trump violated the law, let them go to court and seek the civil remedy provided by the law.

The Constitution allocates to the president sole authority over foreign policy... It does not permit Congress to substitute its foreign policy preferences for those of the president. (U.S. National Archives and Records Administration, Wikipedia Commons)

U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) has gotten the constitutional law exactly backwards. It said that the "faithful execution of the law" — the Impoundment Control Act—"does not permit the president to substitute his own policy priorities for those congress has enacted into law ." Yes, it does — when it comes to foreign policy. The Constitution allocates to the president sole authority over foreign policy (short of declaring war or signing a treaty). It does not permit Congress to substitute its foreign policy preferences for those of the president.

To the extent that the statute at issue constrains the power of the president to conduct foreign policy, it is unconstitutional.

Consider the following hypothetical situation: Congress allocates funds to Cuba (or Iran or Venezuela). The president says that is inconsistent with his foreign policy and refuses to release the funds. Surely the president would be within his constitutional authority. Or consider the actual situation that former President Barack Obama created when he unilaterally made the Iran deal and sent that enemy of America billions of dollars without congressional approval. I do not recall the GAO complaining about that p**********l decision, despite the reality that the Iran deal was, in effect, a treaty that should require senate approval that was never given.

Wh**ever one may think about the substantive merits of what President Donald Trump did or did not do with regard to the Ukrainian money— which was eventually sent without strings —he certainly had the authority to delay sending the funds. The GAO was simply wrong in alleging that he violated the law, which includes the Constitution, by doing so.

To be sure, the statute requires notification to Congress, but if such notification significantly delays the president from implementing his foreign policy at a time of his choice, that too would raise serious constitutional issues.

Why then would a nonpartisan agency get it so wrong as a matter of constitutional law. There are two obvious answers: first, in the age of Trump there is no such thing as nonpartisan. The political word is largely divided into people who h**e and people who love President Trump. This is as true of long term civil servants as it is of partisan politicians. We have seen this with regard to the FBI, the CIA, the Fed and other government agencies that are supposed to be nonpartisan. There are of course exceptions such as the inspector general of the Department of Justice who seems genuinely non-partisan. But most civil servants share the nationwide trend of picking sides. The GAO does not seem immune to this d******eness.

Second, even if the GAO were non-partisan in the sense of preferring one political party over the other, it is partial to Congress over the president. The GAO is a congressional body. It is part of the legislative, not executive, branch. As such, it favors congressional prerogatives over executive power. It is not surprising therefore that it would elevate the authority of Congress to enact legislation over that of the president to conduct foreign policy.

In any event, even if the GAO were correct in its legal conclusion — which it is not— the alleged violation would be neither a crime nor an impeachable offense. It would be a civil violation subject to a civil remedy, as were the numerous violations alleged by the GAO with regard to other presidents. Those alleged violations were barely noted by the media. But in the hyper-partisan impeachment atmosphere, this report received breathless "breaking news" coverage and a demand for inclusion among the articles of impeachment.

If Congress and its GAO truly believe that President Trump violated the law, let them go to court and seek the civil remedy provided by the law. But let us not continue to water down the constitutional criteria for impeachment by including highly questionable, and on my view wrongheaded, views about violations of an unconstitutional civil law.

Alan M. Dershowitz is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law Emeritus at Harvard Law School and author of the book, Guilt by Accusation: The Challenge of Proving Innocence in the Age of #MeToo, Skyhorse Publishing, November 2019. He is a Distinguished Fellow at Gatestone Institute.
Trump Had Right to Withhold Ukraine Funds: GAO is ... (show quote)


Trump cannot withhold funds that were authorized by Congress without consulting with Congress. The GAO is absolutely correct. Trump and his legal cronies just play with words to create crazy conspiracy theories and beside Trump has offered no evidence to prove his comments he did absolutely everything perfect. If he did everything perfect let’s put his people under oath and let them testify why do Trump supporters ignore a basic concept of a trial. Besides Trump was not impeached because of withholding those funds and it’s clear the evidence shows he withheld those funds to get a foreign country to get dirt on a political opponent.
Only a GD i***t can deny the evidence, and only a Trump supporter thinks a fair trial can be run with no witnesses and no documentation.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 20:21:30   #
Radiance3
 
JFlorio wrote:
In 2014 the GAO declared trading for Beau Bergdahl was a criminal act. Looks like the Democrats ignored that one.

=================
In fact that was treason. Four terrorists released from GITMO only to return to the field k**led our US soldiers.

Because it was about Barack.

There were myriads of impeachable offences he committed. Everything was ignored.

Bergdhals parents displayed at the WH Rose garden. Bergdhals father invoked and praised their god alah, and Barack was happy about that. I watched that.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 20:21:52   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
The GAO opinion (one bureaucrat) was wrong. The funds had to be released by the end of September. The funds were released on Sept 12th. In 2014 the GAO said the trade for Beau Bergdahl was illegal. Is that why they impeached Obama? Oh yea! They didn’t.
Airforceone wrote:
Trump cannot withhold funds that were authorized by Congress without consulting with Congress. The GAO is absolutely correct. Trump and his legal cronies just play with words to create crazy conspiracy theories and beside Trump has offered no evidence to prove his comments he did absolutely everything perfect. If he did everything perfect let’s put his people under oath and let them testify why do Trump supporters ignore a basic concept of a trial. Besides Trump was not impeached because of withholding those funds and it’s clear the evidence shows he withheld those funds to get a foreign country to get dirt on a political opponent.
Only a GD i***t can deny the evidence, and only a Trump supporter thinks a fair trial can be run with no witnesses and no documentation.
Trump cannot withhold funds that were authorized b... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 20:31:25   #
son of witless
 
Airforceone wrote:
Trump cannot withhold funds that were authorized by Congress without consulting with Congress. The GAO is absolutely correct. Trump and his legal cronies just play with words to create crazy conspiracy theories and beside Trump has offered no evidence to prove his comments he did absolutely everything perfect. If he did everything perfect let’s put his people under oath and let them testify why do Trump supporters ignore a basic concept of a trial. Besides Trump was not impeached because of withholding those funds and it’s clear the evidence shows he withheld those funds to get a foreign country to get dirt on a political opponent.
Only a GD i***t can deny the evidence, and only a Trump supporter thinks a fair trial can be run with no witnesses and no documentation.
Trump cannot withhold funds that were authorized b... (show quote)


It's not like you are known for getting your facts right. Joe Biden is not and was not at the time of the phone call a political opponent of President Trump.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 20:32:58   #
Radiance3
 
JFlorio wrote:
The GAO opinion (one bureaucrat) was wrong. The funds had to be released by the end of September. The funds were released on Sept 12th. In 2014 the GAO said the trade for Beau Bergdahl was illegal. Is that why they impeached Obama? Oh yea! They didn’t.

================
If the fund was released Sept. 12th, and deadline was the end of Sept. How could there be delay? Even Zelensky said, there was no delay.

Obama was never impeached for all the crimes he committed.

GAO reports to Congress. How could they claim independence? Decision was made with political influence.

Reply
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