One Political Plaza - Home of politics
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main
Trump Had Right to Withhold Ukraine Funds: GAO is Wrong
Page <prev 2 of 4 next> last>>
Jan 18, 2020 13:27:27   #
federally indicted mattoid
 
son of witless wrote:
He is President, that is why.


... and it was before campaign season

Reply
Jan 18, 2020 13:31:15   #
Weasel Loc: In the Great State Of Indiana!!
 
JFlorio wrote:
He was required by law to release the funds by the end of September. He released them September 12. You are so clueless you’re dumb.


Thank You.

Reply
Jan 18, 2020 13:35:51   #
son of witless
 
useful mattoid 45 wrote:
... and it was before campaign season


Two points. Does running for President immunize Joe Biden from crime prosecution ? Second point. Biden is not Trump's political opponent. He was not an opponent at the time of the phone call. He is the opponent of the other Democrats on the stage. How can President Trump be accused of getting a foreign nation to dig up dirt on a political enemy, when Biden is not ?

Reply
 
 
Jan 18, 2020 14:46:30   #
woodguru
 
Liberty Tree wrote:
It must also be reminded that the GAO works for Congress and will side with it over the Executive Branch.

Which is absolutely false, they deliver some of the most unbiased fact based analysis on the hill. The GOP started having a problem with them when their reports on their favorite rhetorical positions like trickle down economics did not favorably support their positions. Republicans had a couple of instances where they wanted reports expunged from the record because they didn't like them.

It's nearly impossible to side in statistical matters when part of their MO is to provide 100% full supporting documents.

Reply
Jan 18, 2020 15:22:33   #
woodguru
 
son of witless wrote:
Two points. Does running for President immunize Joe Biden from crime prosecution ? Second point. Biden is not Trump's political opponent. He was not an opponent at the time of the phone call. He is the opponent of the other Democrats on the stage. How can President Trump be accused of getting a foreign nation to dig up dirt on a political enemy, when Biden is not ?

What crime, the Biden issue has been beat up nine ways to sunday? The reality of what intelligence reported to the senate intelligence committee is far different than the Russian created Giuliani fantasy conspiracy...

this crap lives in the heads of the right and never will go away. The idea of having Biden testify is a right wing fantasy, and the GOP has enough sense to know they want nothing to do with it, it's a bluff to deter dems from relevant witnesses...and here's a newsflash, dems might just give them this thing they really don't want if it's pushed it would make the GOP look like pure fools to bring in the facts from intelligence that they already know.

Reply
Jan 18, 2020 15:32:32   #
son of witless
 
woodguru wrote:
What crime, the Biden issue has been beat up nine ways to sunday? The reality of what intelligence reported to the senate intelligence committee is far different than the Russian created Giuliani fantasy conspiracy...

this crap lives in the heads of the right and never will go away. The idea of having Biden testify is a right wing fantasy, and the GOP has enough sense to know they want nothing to do with it, it's a bluff to deter dems from relevant witnesses...and here's a newsflash, dems might just give them this thing they really don't want if it's pushed it would make the GOP look like pure fools to bring in the facts from intelligence that they already know.
What crime, the Biden issue has been beat up nine ... (show quote)


What crime ? Seriously, what planet do you live on ? The company Biden's son worked for was under investigation for corruption, and Olde joe bragged about withholding American Aid money until the prosecutor was fired. That is a crime, even for a Democrat. And Democrats Impeached Trump ? This is why nobody outside the rabies infected Democrat base takes Impeachment seriously. They are bored to tears.

https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-to-fire-prosecutor-for-aid-money/C1C51BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html

Reply
Jan 18, 2020 16:23:43   #
lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas
 
no propaganda please wrote:
Trump Had Right to Withhold Ukraine Funds: GAO is Wrong

by Alan M. Dershowitz
January 17, 2020 at 7:00 pm

The Constitution allocates to the president sole authority over foreign policy (short of declaring war or signing a treaty). It does not permit Congress to substitute its foreign policy preferences for those of the president.

To the extent that the statute at issue constrains the power of the president to conduct foreign policy, it is unconstitutional.

Even if the GAO were correct in its legal conclusion — which it is not — the alleged violation would be neither a crime nor an impeachable offense. It would be a civil violation subject to a civil remedy, as were the numerous violations alleged by the GAO with regard to other presidents.

If Congress and its GAO truly believe that President Trump violated the law, let them go to court and seek the civil remedy provided by the law.

The Constitution allocates to the president sole authority over foreign policy... It does not permit Congress to substitute its foreign policy preferences for those of the president. (U.S. National Archives and Records Administration, Wikipedia Commons)

U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) has gotten the constitutional law exactly backwards. It said that the "faithful execution of the law" — the Impoundment Control Act—"does not permit the president to substitute his own policy priorities for those congress has enacted into law ." Yes, it does — when it comes to foreign policy. The Constitution allocates to the president sole authority over foreign policy (short of declaring war or signing a treaty). It does not permit Congress to substitute its foreign policy preferences for those of the president.

To the extent that the statute at issue constrains the power of the president to conduct foreign policy, it is unconstitutional.

Consider the following hypothetical situation: Congress allocates funds to Cuba (or Iran or Venezuela). The president says that is inconsistent with his foreign policy and refuses to release the funds. Surely the president would be within his constitutional authority. Or consider the actual situation that former President Barack Obama created when he unilaterally made the Iran deal and sent that enemy of America billions of dollars without congressional approval. I do not recall the GAO complaining about that p**********l decision, despite the reality that the Iran deal was, in effect, a treaty that should require senate approval that was never given.

Wh**ever one may think about the substantive merits of what President Donald Trump did or did not do with regard to the Ukrainian money— which was eventually sent without strings —he certainly had the authority to delay sending the funds. The GAO was simply wrong in alleging that he violated the law, which includes the Constitution, by doing so.

To be sure, the statute requires notification to Congress, but if such notification significantly delays the president from implementing his foreign policy at a time of his choice, that too would raise serious constitutional issues.

Why then would a nonpartisan agency get it so wrong as a matter of constitutional law. There are two obvious answers: first, in the age of Trump there is no such thing as nonpartisan. The political word is largely divided into people who h**e and people who love President Trump. This is as true of long term civil servants as it is of partisan politicians. We have seen this with regard to the FBI, the CIA, the Fed and other government agencies that are supposed to be nonpartisan. There are of course exceptions such as the inspector general of the Department of Justice who seems genuinely non-partisan. But most civil servants share the nationwide trend of picking sides. The GAO does not seem immune to this d******eness.

Second, even if the GAO were non-partisan in the sense of preferring one political party over the other, it is partial to Congress over the president. The GAO is a congressional body. It is part of the legislative, not executive, branch. As such, it favors congressional prerogatives over executive power. It is not surprising therefore that it would elevate the authority of Congress to enact legislation over that of the president to conduct foreign policy.

In any event, even if the GAO were correct in its legal conclusion — which it is not— the alleged violation would be neither a crime nor an impeachable offense. It would be a civil violation subject to a civil remedy, as were the numerous violations alleged by the GAO with regard to other presidents. Those alleged violations were barely noted by the media. But in the hyper-partisan impeachment atmosphere, this report received breathless "breaking news" coverage and a demand for inclusion among the articles of impeachment.

If Congress and its GAO truly believe that President Trump violated the law, let them go to court and seek the civil remedy provided by the law. But let us not continue to water down the constitutional criteria for impeachment by including highly questionable, and on my view wrongheaded, views about violations of an unconstitutional civil law.

Alan M. Dershowitz is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law Emeritus at Harvard Law School and author of the book, Guilt by Accusation: The Challenge of Proving Innocence in the Age of #MeToo, Skyhorse Publishing, November 2019. He is a Distinguished Fellow at Gatestone Institute.
Trump Had Right to Withhold Ukraine Funds: GAO is ... (show quote)


Appropriations are not foreign policy. The Constitution gives Congress the exclusive authority over the National purse, the executive branch does not have ANY authority to modify, or withhold funds authorized by Congress.

POTUS does NOT have exclusive authority on foreign ( or domestic ) policy, which is why Congress has foreign relation committees.

Reply
 
 
Jan 18, 2020 18:09:06   #
PeterS
 
JFlorio wrote:
He was required by law to release the funds by the end of September. He released them September 12. You are so clueless you’re dumb.

That wasn't the point. If it was right for him to withhold the funds why did he release them? And don't tell me the law because he never cared about the law before!

Reply
Jan 18, 2020 18:16:41   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
PeterS wrote:
That wasn't the point. If it was right for him to withhold the funds why did he release them? And don't tell me the law because he never cared about the law before!


It doesn’t matter. Maybe he was waiting on investigators conclusions about Ukraine corruption. It is about the law. Everything else is just conjecture.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 00:22:40   #
federally indicted mattoid
 
son of witless wrote:
Two points. Does running for President immunize Joe Biden from crime prosecution ? Second point. Biden is not Trump's political opponent. He was not an opponent at the time of the phone call. He is the opponent of the other Democrats on the stage. How can President Trump be accused of getting a foreign nation to dig up dirt on a political enemy, when Biden is not ?

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 00:23:24   #
federally indicted mattoid
 
So basically Trump self impeached for no obvious (to his base) reason. He's dumber than I thought

Reply
 
 
Jan 19, 2020 00:31:50   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
useful mattoid 45 wrote:
So basically Trump self impeached for no obvious (to his base) reason. He's dumber than I thought


You’re dumber than I thought. Which is bad because I think you are really dumb. He was impeached by Pelos and her minion i who lied about why and how a president should be impeached.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 01:28:54   #
federally indicted mattoid
 
I do detect the rwnj splutter that we are about to engage with for the next few days starting Tuesday.

It is hopefully going to come down to preserving our democracy and defending our e******ns from interference.

And that the majority of Americans are able to articulate that this is what they want to happen is essential.

A cover-up leaves a pretty bad stain.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 02:27:19   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
lpnmajor wrote:
Appropriations are not foreign policy. The Constitution gives Congress the exclusive authority over the National purse, the executive branch does not have ANY authority to modify, or withhold funds authorized by Congress.

POTUS does NOT have exclusive authority on foreign ( or domestic ) policy, which is why Congress has foreign relation committees.
If the President is considering whether to defer or rescind military assistance to a foreign country, but has not yet made a decision to do so under the Impoundment Control Act, is he required to notify Congress? That’s what Sen. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) wants to know and is asking the Government Accountability Office (GAO) to report on.

The question comes after decisions by the White House to temporarily freeze and review State Department and USAID foreign aid spending in August, and $250 million of military assistance to Ukraine in July. Both reviews were completed, with the broader foreign aid being released on Aug. 7 and the military spending in Ukraine being obligated on Sept. 11. Ultimately, the President chose not to request either a deferral or rescission of the funds.

And yet Democrats want to remove Trump from office over the issue.

The Office of Management and Budget for its part is saying it did nothing wrong, with OMB communications director Rachel Semmel issuing a statement saying, “As has been well documented, we fully complied with the law and decades of precedent with respect to these funds. Congress is notified if the administration intends to rescind, defer, reprogram or t***sfer funding, but in this case none of those things occurred and the funding was obligated as planned.”

Under 2 U.S.C. Section 684 or 2 U.S.C. Section 683, the Impoundment Control Act, the President has the power to propose deferring funds on a temporary basis or rescinding them altogether, subject to Congressional approval.

Reply
Jan 19, 2020 02:52:32   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
useful mattoid 45 wrote:
I do detect the rwnj splutter that we are about to engage with for the next few days starting Tuesday.

It is hopefully going to come down to preserving our democracy and defending our e******ns from interference.

And that the majority of Americans are able to articulate that this is what they want to happen is essential.

A cover-up leaves a pretty bad stain.
If you want to preserve democracy, go live in a country with a full democracy government. There are 19 to choose from, nearly a third live under authoritarian rule.

What makes America unique among nations is her founding as a Constitutional Republic (or, Representative Republic, if you wish). Separation of powers, consent of the governed, and like that. We need to repeal the 17th amendment, that was a major mistake.

Foreign entities and governments have been attempting to interfere with our e******ns since the beginning of the Cold War - primarily Russia and China.

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 4 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main
OnePoliticalPlaza.com - Forum
Copyright 2012-2024 IDF International Technologies, Inc.