Did we just get an Archduke Ferninand Moment compliments of Trump?
Jan 4, 2020 19:24:16 #
rumitoid wrote:
I am somewhat on the fence about the assassination of Iranian general, Qasem Soleimani. The arguments pro and con are somewhat a wash, though I lean that it was wrong and a direct threat to national security...and worse. I am tempted to give the reasons for my lean towards it being wrong, and the split on the topic seems to go along party lines, yet I want to hear what you think. Was it or wasn't the right thing to do ethically, morally, and strategically?
Come on, don't go all wishy-washy on us. Take a stand. Since President Trump did it, it has to be bad, right ? I mean your buddy Colin Kaepernick came right out and condemned it. Trump did it, it must be bad, it must be r****t. The only thing I haven't heard yet is Cowboy Trump. When Bush struck at the bad guys he was called a Cowboy.
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/soleimani-colin-kaepernick-us-terrorist-attacks-black-brown-people
Jan 4, 2020 19:28:33 #
rumitoid wrote:
I said and I will say again, I am on the fence about this action. Yes, I lean that it was wrong but need input like yours to decide.
" Did we just get an Archduke Ferninand Moment compliments of Trump? "
An Iranian General's death the equivalent of an Austrian Archduke's death ? You cannot be serious. Shirley you cannot be serious.
Jan 4, 2020 19:38:20 #
dtucker300
Loc: Vista, CA
son of witless wrote:
" Did we just get an Archduke Ferninand Moment compliments of Trump? "
An Iranian General's death the equivalent of an Austrian Archduke's death ? You cannot be serious. Shirley you cannot be serious.
An Iranian General's death the equivalent of an Austrian Archduke's death ? You cannot be serious. Shirley you cannot be serious.
And don't call me Shirley!
Jan 4, 2020 19:39:53 #
Saspatz007 wrote:
Then there should be no prisons? No fines? No legal consequences?
All of these measures are forms of vengeance. Please don’t try to sell me the “rehabilitation” line. The recidivism rate is evidence that prisons don’t rehabilitate.
All of these measures are forms of vengeance. Please don’t try to sell me the “rehabilitation” line. The recidivism rate is evidence that prisons don’t rehabilitate.
Please ;I am not trying to sell a rehab line ,you spoke of vengeance, an eye for an eye,a tooth for a tooth.Why you spoke of tools that are mortals tools to exact vengeance after I sought to remind of what God said of vengeance.... (It was to be left to it)....would you tell me of mankind ignoring his mandate of vengeance being left for him to exact, I'll never know.It does not confirm, ,substaniate,or sustain the correctness of your argument that it is okay for mortalness to exact a vengeance by quoting that there a man made penalties,such as prisons,fines,and legal entities as oppose to absolution,or immortality. it is because man chooses to ignore the concept of vengeance being left to God[ I being an agnostic ]do not nesscesarily believe in that concept; God is still perceived as a myth,myths as of yet do not present a physical enough presence to implement such processes.
Jan 4, 2020 19:43:41 #
dtucker300 wrote:
Why do you think that is? Germany has made some progress in rehabilitation.
I took a look at a very interesting report about a trip to Germany and the Netherlands to look at their criminal justice system.
https://www.vera.org/downloads/Publications/sentencing-and-prison-practices-in-germany-and-the-netherlands-implications-for-the-united-states/legacy_downloads/european-american-prison-report-v3.pdf
There is a bipartisan effort to find a better approach to incarceration. Both sides see the need for some sort of reform. The costs are breathtaking, our system isn’t working, and we need to find a solution.
This report outlines a possible model to work towards.
It’s worth reading and considering.
Jan 4, 2020 19:44:40 #
Jan 4, 2020 19:57:18 #
dongreen76 wrote:
Please ;I am not trying to sell a rehab line ,you ... (show quote)
Vengeance is mine refers to the fact that personal vengeance (aka vigilante justice) is wrong and evil people who escape legal consequences will not escape His justice.
Does the fact that some very horrible people, who have done horrible acts, never face consequences bother you?
Jan 4, 2020 20:07:55 #
dtucker300
Loc: Vista, CA
dongreen76 wrote:
Please ;I am not trying to sell a rehab line ,you ... (show quote)
I not sure I understand what point you are trying to argue. Is it that we have no right to punish wrongdoers because vengeance belongs to God? God wants us to establish civil governments because men are not angels and governments are needed to carry out God's will. One of those functions is to punish wrongdoers in the here and now while in this world. This is not vengeance unless it is done for personal reasons. That is why you cannot carry-out personal retribution against those who have wronged you. It is up to the state to exact punishment. God gave us laws to enforce through our civil government.
Jan 4, 2020 20:10:59 #
Jan 4, 2020 20:22:39 #
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Jan 4, 2020 21:38:46 #
bggamers
Loc: georgia
rumitoid wrote:
Think about law and order. That is the fundamental basis of our Republic. We are not a government that assassinates enemies in undeclared wars, no matter how much he deserved. It was flat-out wrong, and if you agree with that action you spit not only on our Constitution but all principles of liberty. We are based, or were, on due process. Trump spits on that basic right.
He broke no law rum he had every right to make that decision he does not have to ask for permission only if declaring war
Jan 4, 2020 21:40:47 #
Jan 4, 2020 23:01:16 #
Jan 4, 2020 23:06:48 #
bggamers wrote:
SORRY won't load
Can you get on Vera.org? You might also try googling “Sentencing and Prison practices in Germany and the Netherlands.”
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.