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USS Liberty - Never Forget
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Dec 4, 2019 15:05:13   #
ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island
 
Pennylynn wrote:
USS Liberty continued:

Nine minutes later, Hatzor told the pilots the ship was believed to be an Egyptian cargo ship. At 3:07, the pilots were first told the ship might not be Egyptian and were instructed to search for survivors and inform the base immediately the nationality of the first person they rescued. It was not until 3:12 that one of the pilots reported that he saw an American f**g flying over the ship at which point he was instructed to verify if it was indeed a U.S. vessel.

In January 2004, the State Department held a conference on the Liberty incident and also released new documents, including CIA memos dated 13 and 21 June 1967, that say that Israel did not know it was striking an American vessel. The historian for the National Security Agency, David Hatch, said the available evidence “strongly suggested” Israel did not know it was attacking a U.S. ship. Two former U.S. officials, Ernest Castle, the United States Naval Attaché at the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv in June 1967, who received the first report of the attack from Israel, and John Hadden, then CIA Chief of Station in Tel Aviv, also agreed with the assessment that the attack on the Liberty was a mistake.

The new documents do not shed any light on the mystery of what the ship was doing in the area or why Israel was not informed about its presence.

Israel apologized for the tragedy immediately and offered on 9 June to compensate the victims. Israel ultimately paid nearly $13 million in humanitarian r********ns to the United States and to the families of the victims in amounts established by the U.S. State Department. The matter was officially closed between the two governments by an exchange of diplomatic notes on 17 December 1987.

References:

A. Jay Cristol, The Liberty Incident. (Washington, D.C.: Brassey's Inc., 2002); Yitzhak Rabin, The Rabin Memoirs, (CA: University of California Press, 1996), pp. 108-109.
Attack on a SIGINT Collector, the U.S.S. Liberty.
Dan Kurzman, Soldier of Peace: The Life of Yitzhak Rabin, (NY: HarperCollins, 1998), pp. 224-227; Rabin, p. 108-109.
“United States Policy and Diplomacy in the Middle East Crisis, May 15-June 10, 1967,” declassified secret document, Lyndon Johnson P**********l Library, pp. 143-144.
L. Wainstain, “Some Aspects of the U.S. Involvement in the Middle East Crisis, May-June 1967,” Institute for Defense Analysis, (February 1968).
Washington Post, (November 6, 1991).
5Hirsh Goodman, “Messrs. Errors and No Facts,” Jerusalem Report (November 21, 1991); Arieh O' Sullivan, “Exclusive: Liberty attack tapes revelead,” Jerusalem Post, (June 3, 2004)
Nathan Guttman, “Memos show Liberty attack was an error,” Ha'aretz, (July 9, 2003).
“Pilot who bombed 'Liberty' talks to 'Post,“ Jerusalem Post (October 10, 2003).
Hirsh Goodman and Ze'ev Schiff, “The Attack on the Liberty,” Atlantic Monthly, (September 1984).


I can also recommend another book; The Secret War Against the Jews
By John Loftus and Mark Aarons
St. Martin's Press, 1994
USS Liberty continued: br br Nine minutes later, ... (show quote)


* The Israelis initially claimed they had "mistaken" the Liberty for the Egyptian ship El Quseir. But the El Quseir was only 40 percent the size of Liberty (4000 vs. 10,400 tons). The El Quseir was an old, rustedout horse t***sport that bore about as much resemblance to the Liberty as a rusty VW does to a new Cadillac. The Liberty was arrayed with numerous specialized antennas, and an ultramodern (for 1967) 16foot microwave dish, a device possessed by no other ship in the world except her sister ship Belmont. She bore standard U.S. Navy markings, which included a freshly painted 10foothigh hull number, and Liberty on the stern.

* The Israelis claimed that the ship's U.S. f**g hung limp because there was no wind. Later, when presented with the fact that the f**g had been perfectly visible, they claimed that they thought that the ship was an enemy vessel flying false colors. The extended radio monitoring, exposing considerable advance investigation of Liberty's communication facilities, refutes this claim.



Read the Findings of the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Israeli Attack on USS Liberty, the Recall of Military Rescue Support Aircraft while the Ship was Under Attack, and the Subsequent Cover-up by the United States Government (2003)

Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C.
October 22, 2003


Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, United States Navy, (Ret.)
Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff


General Raymond G. Davis, United States Marine Corps, (MOH)[1]
Former Assistant Commandant of The Marine Corps


Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, United States Navy, (Ret.)
Former Judge Advocate General Of The Navy


Ambassador James Akins, (Ret.)
Former United States Ambassador to Saudi Arabia


We, the undersigned, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel's attack on USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers, a review of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries, and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, hereby find the following:[2][3][4]

1. That on June 8, 1967, after eight hours of aerial surveillance, Israel launched a two-hour air and naval attack against USS Liberty, the world's most sophisticated intelligence ship, inflicting 34 dead and 173 wounded American servicemen (a casualty rate of seventy percent, in a crew of 294);

2. That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time unmarked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty's bridge, and fired 30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency radio channels;

3. That the torpedo boat attack involved not only the firing of torpedoes, but the machine-gunning of Liberty's firefighters and stretcher-bearers as they struggled to save their ship and crew; the Israeli torpedo boats later returned to machine-gun at close range three of the Liberty's life rafts that had been lowered into the water by survivors to rescue the most seriously wounded;

4. That there is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and k**l her entire crew; evidence of such intent is supported by statements from Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Undersecretary of State George Ball, former CIA director Richard Helms, former NSA directors Lieutenant General William Odom, USA (Ret.), Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.), and Marshal Carter; former NSA deputy directors Oliver Kirby and Major General John Morrison, USAF (Ret.); and former Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967;

5. That in attacking USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States;

6. That fearing conflict with Israel, the White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the ship was under attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is supported by statements of Captain Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth Fleet carrier division commander, at the time of the attack; never before in American naval history has a rescue mission been cancelled when an American ship was under attack;

7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic efforts of the ship's Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the t***h; and were abandoned by their own government;

8. That due to the influence of Israel's powerful supporters in the United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;

9. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly testify about the attack;

10. That there has been an official cover-up without precedent in American naval history; the existence of such a cover-up is now supported by statements of Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN (Ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Captain Ward Boston, USN, (Ret.), the chief counsel to the Navy's 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty attack;

11. That the t***h about Israel's attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national disgrace;

12. That a danger to our national security exists whenever our elected officials are willing to subordinate American interests to those of any foreign nation, and specifically are unwilling to challenge Israel's interests when they conflict with American interests; this policy, evidenced by the failure to defend USS Liberty and the subsequent official cover-up of the Israeli attack, endangers the safety of Americans and the security of the United States.

WHEREUPON, we, the undersigned, in order to fulfill our duty to the brave crew of USS Liberty and to all Americans who are asked to serve in our Armed Forces, hereby call upon the Department of the Navy, the Congress of the United States and the American people to immediately take the following actions:

FIRST: That a new Court of Inquiry be convened by the Department of the Navy, operating with Congressional oversight, to take public testimony from surviving crewmembers; and to thoroughly investigate the circumstances of the attack on the USS Liberty, with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services, and to determine Israel's possible motive in launching said attack on a U.S. naval vessel;

SECOND: That every appropriate committee of the Congress of the United States investigate the actions of the White House and Defense Department that prevented the rescue of the USS Liberty, thereafter threatened her surviving officers and men if they exposed the t***h, and covered up the true circumstances of the attack from the American people; and

THIRD: That the eighth day of June of every year be proclaimed to be hereafter known as
USS LIBERTY REMEMBRANCE DAY, in order to commemorate USS Liberty's heroic crew; and to educate the American people of the danger to our national security inherent in any passionate attachment of our elected officials for any foreign nation.


We, the undersigned, hereby affix our hands and seals, this 22nd day of October, 2003.


Thomas H. Moorer
Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Moorer_Report

Reply
Dec 4, 2019 15:22:11   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
ACP45 wrote:
If you were ordered to execute an unarmed enemy insurgent that was in the process of surrendering, would you do it? What if you were ordered to fire upon fleeing civilians, would you do it? What if you were ordered to k**l an entire household of people, including women and young children because they may have harbored a terrorist, would you do it? What is worse, committing treason for violating a military order, or committing an illegal and immoral act?


No, I would not obey an order to k**l an unarmed civilian. Military law prevents the firing on civilians. The exception is when the "civilian" crosses from the exempt status to that of a "combatant." In that case, I would obey the order to shoot. A military order has to comply with military law, It is for cases as you pose that allows a military member to refuse an order that contradict military law.

Did you serve? If so, did you follow lawful orders?

Reply
Dec 4, 2019 15:33:55   #
ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island
 
Pennylynn wrote:
The "attack" on the Liberty was horrible. But, it was not deliberate nor preplanned. However, the attacks on civilian hospitals and schools during 2015 and 2016 were premeditated and deliberate attacks on known hospitals and schools. I did not see an outcry from either the creator of this thread nor from respondent. I believe there is a world of difference between the two actions as well as immediate responses.


If you can show me evidence that the attacks on civilian hospitals and schools were premeditated and deliberate rather than mis-identification of a terrorist target, you will certainly hear my outcry. BTW, It is my stated position in numerous posts that the US should cease it's foreign wars in the mid-east, and close most of our overseas bases. They are not needed for self defense of the US, but rather for empire building, and domination.

Reply
 
 
Dec 4, 2019 15:39:45   #
ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island
 
Pennylynn wrote:
In the case of an order, I would follow the order. The act of flying a f**g does not guarantee the ship belongs to the nation associated with the f**g. The individual issuing the order is privy to more accurate intelligence than the military individual on the ground or in the air.


A reasonable response. Thanks

Reply
Dec 4, 2019 15:53:53   #
ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island
 
Pennylynn wrote:
No, I would not obey an order to k**l an unarmed civilian. Military law prevents the firing on civilians. The exception is when the "civilian" crosses from the exempt status to that of a "combatant." In that case, I would obey the order to shoot. A military order has to comply with military law, It is for cases as you pose that allows a military member to refuse an order that contradict military law.

Did you serve? If so, did you follow lawful orders?


No, I did not serve. Did not pass the physical - eyesight. I have the utmost respect for any service member that has or is serving his or her country. And yes, I would obey any lawful order, whether I liked it or not. On the other-hand, the political leadership that orders our troops into situations that are not in the strict interest of our national defense - well, I have other feelings that I will not print.

Reply
Dec 4, 2019 16:02:02   #
ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island
 
Pennylynn wrote:
USS Liberty continued:

Nine minutes later, Hatzor told the pilots the ship was believed to be an Egyptian cargo ship. At 3:07, the pilots were first told the ship might not be Egyptian and were instructed to search for survivors and inform the base immediately the nationality of the first person they rescued. It was not until 3:12 that one of the pilots reported that he saw an American f**g flying over the ship at which point he was instructed to verify if it was indeed a U.S. vessel.

In January 2004, the State Department held a conference on the Liberty incident and also released new documents, including CIA memos dated 13 and 21 June 1967, that say that Israel did not know it was striking an American vessel. The historian for the National Security Agency, David Hatch, said the available evidence “strongly suggested” Israel did not know it was attacking a U.S. ship. Two former U.S. officials, Ernest Castle, the United States Naval Attaché at the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv in June 1967, who received the first report of the attack from Israel, and John Hadden, then CIA Chief of Station in Tel Aviv, also agreed with the assessment that the attack on the Liberty was a mistake.

The new documents do not shed any light on the mystery of what the ship was doing in the area or why Israel was not informed about its presence.

Israel apologized for the tragedy immediately and offered on 9 June to compensate the victims. Israel ultimately paid nearly $13 million in humanitarian r********ns to the United States and to the families of the victims in amounts established by the U.S. State Department. The matter was officially closed between the two governments by an exchange of diplomatic notes on 17 December 1987.

References:

A. Jay Cristol, The Liberty Incident. (Washington, D.C.: Brassey's Inc., 2002); Yitzhak Rabin, The Rabin Memoirs, (CA: University of California Press, 1996), pp. 108-109.
Attack on a SIGINT Collector, the U.S.S. Liberty.
Dan Kurzman, Soldier of Peace: The Life of Yitzhak Rabin, (NY: HarperCollins, 1998), pp. 224-227; Rabin, p. 108-109.
“United States Policy and Diplomacy in the Middle East Crisis, May 15-June 10, 1967,” declassified secret document, Lyndon Johnson P**********l Library, pp. 143-144.
L. Wainstain, “Some Aspects of the U.S. Involvement in the Middle East Crisis, May-June 1967,” Institute for Defense Analysis, (February 1968).
Washington Post, (November 6, 1991).
5Hirsh Goodman, “Messrs. Errors and No Facts,” Jerusalem Report (November 21, 1991); Arieh O' Sullivan, “Exclusive: Liberty attack tapes revelead,” Jerusalem Post, (June 3, 2004)
Nathan Guttman, “Memos show Liberty attack was an error,” Ha'aretz, (July 9, 2003).
“Pilot who bombed 'Liberty' talks to 'Post,“ Jerusalem Post (October 10, 2003).
Hirsh Goodman and Ze'ev Schiff, “The Attack on the Liberty,” Atlantic Monthly, (September 1984).


I can also recommend another book; The Secret War Against the Jews
By John Loftus and Mark Aarons
St. Martin's Press, 1994
USS Liberty continued: br br Nine minutes later, ... (show quote)


Have you read the independent report by ret. Admiral Thomas H Moorer, Gen. Raymond Davis, USMC, et al. that was completed in 2003?

Reply
Dec 4, 2019 16:09:04   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
ACP45 wrote:
No, I did not serve. Did not pass the physical - eyesight. I have the utmost respect for any service member that has or is serving his or her country. And yes, I would obey any lawful order, whether I liked it or not. On the other-hand, the political leadership that orders our troops into situations that are not in the strict interest of our national defense - well, I have other feelings that I will not print.


I did serve.… I was never ordered to carry out one single unlawful order. My Commanders were all very honorable.

Reply
 
 
Dec 4, 2019 16:16:38   #
ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island
 
Pennylynn wrote:
I did serve.… I was never ordered to carry out one single unlawful order. My Commanders were all very honorable.



Reply
Dec 4, 2019 20:38:06   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
ACP45 wrote:
Question CD and Pennylynn,

You join your country's armed forces for patriotic and idealistic purposes. Defending your country is an honorable goal. You become a fighter pilot and in the course of your duties you come across a ship of an ally of your country. You notify your chain of command that it is a friendly (not an enemy) and are ordered to attack the ship anyway. You are placed in a quandry, you know it is wrong to attack a friendly ally that is non-hostile, but you face severe consequences if you disobey your chain of command. What do you do? Do you follow your conscience, or follow orders (34 k**led and 171 wounded). And, if you simply follow orders, isn't that the same argument that many N**i's used during the Nuremberg trials?

From my previous post-
* Immediately preceding the attack, an Israeli pilot recognized Liberty as a U.S. ship and radioed this information to IDF headquarters. He was instructed to attack anyway. This dialogue was intercepted at the U.S. embassy in Beirut. Former U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter revealed the existence of this intercept in 1991.

* The Israelis eventually admitted that before the attack, their commanders had compared reconnaissance photos of the Liberty with Jane's Fighting Ships. But they claimed that before the attack they twice telephoned the U.S. naval attache in Tel Aviv inquiring whether the Liberty was a U.S. ship and were told that there were no U.S. Navy ships in the area. They claimed that having received a negative reply, they decided that the ship had to be the El Quseir. However, the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv, and later the naval attache, emphatically stated that no such inquiries were made. The Israelis not only knew the ship's nationality and that she was an "ELINT" ship; they also knew she was the Liberty herself.
Question CD and Pennylynn, br br You join your co... (show quote)


Emphatically YES...

Soldiers follow orders...

If they take issue with the orders they can resign afterwards...

Reply
Dec 4, 2019 20:47:54   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
ACP45 wrote:
If you were ordered to execute an unarmed enemy insurgent that was in the process of surrendering, would you do it? What if you were ordered to fire upon fleeing civilians, would you do it? What if you were ordered to k**l an entire household of people, including women and young children because they may have harbored a terrorist, would you do it? What is worse, committing treason for violating a military order, or committing an illegal and immoral act?


Yes...

Yes...

Yes...

The first...

Soldiers don't have the luxury of disobedience... They took an oath...

Those that give the command can be tried for war crimes and what not... But a soldier obeys..

Reply
Dec 4, 2019 20:53:49   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Pennylynn wrote:
thank you. I have read several books on this subject. No disrespect to your chosen author and his book, I think to get a well-rounded perspective, one has to read more than one account.


As for the USS Liberty, here are the facts. All have been verified and there is no embellishments. I put it out for everyone to make up their own minds, was this an intentional act or an accident.

8 June 1967 which was the 4th day of the 6-day war, Israeli high command received several reports that troops in El Arish was under heavy fire for the sea. The day before, Egyptian vessels had taken the same position where they bombarded El Arish. Right or wrong, the assumption was made that the Egyptians had commenced firing again. Now then, the US announced that they would have a naval force within hundreds of miles off the coast to monitor the fight, but this was a few days earlier. The USS Liberty, under dual control of the DIS, CIA and the 6th Fleet came within 14 miles off of the Sinai coast. The Israelis mistakenly thought the USS Liberty was the one shelling El Arish. War planes and torpedo boats attacked the Liberty; k*****g 34 members of the Liberty's crew and wounding 171. Ships from the Sixth Fleet were directed to launch four attack aircraft with fighter cover to defend the Liberty, but the planes were recalled by the White House.

Liberty was first reported to be cruising at 30 knots (it was later recalculated to be 28 knots). Under Israeli (and U.S.) naval doctrine at the time, a ship proceeding at that speed was presumed to be a warship. The sea was calm and the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry found that the Liberty's f**g was very likely drooped and not discernible; moreover, members of the crew, including the Captain, Commander William McGonagle, testified that the f**g was knocked down.

According to Israeli Chief of Staff Yitzhak Rabin's memoirs, there were standing orders to attack any unidentified vessel near the shore.1 The day fighting began, Israel asked the US to remove any American ships from off the coast and to be notified of the precise location of U.S. vessels. The Sixth Fleet was moved because President Johnson feared being drawn into a confrontation with the Soviet Union. He also ordered that no aircraft be sent near Sinai.

A CIA report on the incident issued 13 June 1967, found that an overzealous pilot could mistake the Liberty for an Egyptian ship, the El Quseir. When the Liberty began shooting at the Israelis (which was a normal reaction) the Israelis responded with the torpedo attack, which k**led 28 of the sailors. In 1981, NSA noted that accounts by members of the Liberty crew and others did not have access to the relevant signal intelligence reports or the confidential explanation provided by Israel to the United States, which were used in the CIA investigation. The NSA concluded: “While these (Signal intelligence of Israeli communications) reports revealed some confusion on the part of the pilots concerning the nationality of the ship, they tended to rule out any thesis that the Israeli Navy and Air Force deliberately attacked a ship they knew to be American.”

JCS investigated the communications failure and noted that the Chief of Naval Operations expressed concern about the prudence of sending the Liberty so close to the area of hostilities and four messages were subsequently sent instructing the ship to move farther away from the area of hostilities. The JCS report said the messages were never received because of “a combination of (1) human error, (2) high volume of communications traffic, and (3) lack of appreciation of sense of urgency regarding the movement of the Liberty.” The report also included a copy of a flash cable sent immediately after the attack, which reported that Israel had “erroneously” attacked the Liberty, that IDF helicopters were in rescue operations, and that Israel had sent “abject apologies” and requested information on any other U.S. ships near the war zone.

Initially, the Israelis were terrified that they had attacked a Soviet ship and might have provoked the Soviets to join the fighting. Once the Israelis were sure what had happened, they reported the incident to the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv and offered to provide a helicopter for the Americans to fly out to the ship and any help they required to evacuate the injured and salvage the ship. The offer was accepted and a U.S. naval attaché was flown to the Liberty.

The Israelis were “obviously shocked” by the error they made in attacking the ship, according to the U.S. Ambassador in Tel Aviv. In fact, according to a secret report on the 1967 war, the immediate concern was that the Arabs might see the proximity of the Liberty to the conflict as evidence of U.S.-Israel collusion. A second secret report concluded, “While the attack showed a degree of impetuosity and recklessness, it was also clear that the presence of a U.S. naval vessel, unannounced, that close to belligerent shores at a time when we had made much of the fact that no U.S. military forces were moving near the area of hostilities was inviting disaster.”

A U.S. spy plane was sent to the area as soon as the NSA learned of the attack on the Liberty and recorded the conversations of two Israeli Air Force helicopter pilots, which took place between 2:30 and 3:37 p.m. on June 8. The orders radioed to the pilots by their supervisor at the Hatzor base instructing them to search for Egyptian survivors from the “Egyptian warship” that had just been bombed were also recorded by the NSA. “Pay attention. The ship is now identified as Egyptian,” the pilots were informed.

See below for continuation
thank you. I have read several books on this subj... (show quote)



Query?

"Liberty was first reported to be cruising at 30 knots (it was later recalculated to be 28 knots). Under Israeli (and U.S.) naval doctrine at the time, a ship proceeding at that speed was presumed to be a warship. The sea was calm and the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry found that the Liberty's f**g was very likely drooped and not discernible; moreover, members of the crew, including the Captain, Commander William McGonagle, testified that the f**g was knocked down."

How does a f**g droop at 28 knots?

I've been on a ship or two and at that speed the f**g would have been flying proud and true...

Just curious....

Reply
 
 
Dec 5, 2019 00:07:50   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Query?

"Liberty was first reported to be cruising at 30 knots (it was later recalculated to be 28 knots). Under Israeli (and U.S.) naval doctrine at the time, a ship proceeding at that speed was presumed to be a warship. The sea was calm and the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry found that the Liberty's f**g was very likely drooped and not discernible; moreover, members of the crew, including the Captain, Commander William McGonagle, testified that the f**g was knocked down."

How does a f**g droop at 28 knots?

I've been on a ship or two and at that speed the f**g would have been flying proud and true...

Just curious....
Query? br br "Liberty was first reported to... (show quote)


I do not know. I could speculate, but that would not be helpful. Is it possible, due to the Liberty being a spy ship, that no f**g was hoisted? The ship commander said it had been "knocked down."

Reply
Dec 5, 2019 00:24:04   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Pennylynn wrote:
I do not know. I could speculate, but that would not be helpful. Is it possible, due to the Liberty being a spy ship, that no f**g was hoisted? The ship commander said it had been "knocked down."


An interesting bit of history that I am unfamiliar with...

War can lead to such incidents...

Are there any theories as to why Israel would attack an ally? Especially America?

Reply
Dec 5, 2019 04:06:41   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
An interesting bit of history that I am unfamiliar with...

War can lead to such incidents...

Are there any theories as to why Israel would attack an ally? Especially America?


I believe it was a mistake. Time again, I read the reports and what stands out is how afraid Israel was that the Liberty was a Russian spy ship. You see, the Liberty was supposed to have been in International waters.

Reply
Dec 5, 2019 04:54:14   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Pennylynn wrote:
I believe it was a mistake. Time again, I read the reports and what stands out is how afraid Israel was that the Liberty was a Russian spy ship. You see, the Liberty was supposed to have been in International waters.


It may have been... These things happen..

I have trouble imagining Israel attacking its greatest ally during a war...

Honestly can't think of a single reason why they would do that

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