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Is impeachment probe denying Trump's rights?
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Oct 25, 2019 21:20:05   #
BigMike Loc: yerington nv
 
Lt. Rob Polans ret. wrote:
The bottom line and what they h**e most is they don't have an impeachable offense. Even abuse of power by itself isn't one.


Yep. They're shooting blanks.

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Oct 25, 2019 21:25:44   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
BigMike wrote:
...oops!

Yep, it was an oops.

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Oct 26, 2019 15:17:47   #
woodguru
 
proud republican wrote:
I just don't trust Mr Schitt!!!!!! He is dishonest Buffoon!!!

There are republicans in these hearings...why is it you think they aren't making more fuss about what they are hearing? It't because they are hearing incredibly damaging things that there is no defense for...

...which is why the only thing the GOP can do is attack the process.

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Oct 26, 2019 15:27:25   #
woodguru
 
Pariahjf wrote:
No trial, no rights. AND he can ignore ANY of their requests, also.

Except he can't, this is not the trial stage, this is the discovery stage, this stage is not done openly, Gowdy when he was in control of GOP committee said they are much more productive than the open hearings. Dems are doing this how republicans were doing things.

Congress has a right to all of the information the FOJ came up with, all of the Mueller report and the documents behind it...

And the circuit court just ruled on that exact thing, including saying that this is an impeachment hearing, and congress does not have to do anything else to make it so. All of the trump attorneys just had all of their BS made up unsubstantiated legal positions wiped out.

Congress does the investigating...the senate takes that and does the "trial" part. Although it is not a traditional trial. Evidence will be on trial, not how it was derived. If it can be proved something happened that will be all that matters, not the technicalities of the process. It's just like the fact that nothing about the whistleblower matters anymore, wh**ever this person reported has been acted upon and we are into a whole new set of facts that nothing about the whistleblower matters except for the fact that Barr may be in deep doo doo for trying to k**l it.

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Oct 26, 2019 15:40:01   #
woodguru
 
BigMike wrote:
It matters not.
If it went to the Senate Trump would have discovery and be able to call witnesses under oath.

This, if it is done at all intelligently, is not like a normal trial. Things that are proved will be introduced. If witnesses can come up with something that proves things did not happen, fine...but they aren't going to beat dead horses about how information was derived, if evidence exists it will be good to go.

Things are coming out that have cold hard proof, there is no defending that Trump withheld aid that he had no legal right to withhold, against the wishes of congress and the state department, who were kept out of any official loop...which is exactly what makes Trump unfit to hold this office.

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Oct 26, 2019 16:35:55   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
slatten49 wrote:
Really, Blade. The first article stems from FOX...the second from Rueters. Plus, the quote in my post you refused responding to was from FOX's own Judge Napolitano.

You disappoint me by staying in your protective bubble.

Yet, it is best to avoid the t***h behind the GOP enabling the impeachment process they're now criticizing.

The current Republican criticism of impeachment is all about process: It’s too secretive, since all interviews are behind closed doors, and only around 100 members of Congress from both parties are able to observe depositions.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., called it a “star chamber” process this week, and even Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, who is one of President Trump’s most vocal critics inside his own party, said he would like to see a v**e in the full House of Representatives authorizing the inquiry.

But the biggest problem with Republican critiques is that Democrats in the House are following a playbook for investigations that was first written by Republicans in large part over the past several years.

Depositions held behind closed doors? That’s what happened with the congressional investigation into the 2012 attack on a U.S. diplomatic facility in B******i, Libya.

“Of the 50-some odd interviews we have done thus far, the vast majority of them have been private,” said Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., who chaired the House Select Committee on B******i, in 2015. “The private ones always produce better results,” Gowdy said. Gowdy also kept a close hold on transcripts rather than releasing them, as House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff, the California Democrat overseeing the inquiry, is doing now.

Subpoenas issued without consultation with the minority? That too was part of the Republican playbook. Most committee chairs didn’t even have the power to do that until Republicans held control of the House from 2010 to 2018. In their zeal to investigate the Obama administration, House Republicans doubled the number of committees where the chair could issue unilateral subpoenas demanding witnesses come to testify or be deposed.

And while chairing the House Oversight Committee, Republican Darrell Issa of California issued more than 100 subpoenas without minority input during his investigations into the Obama administration.

Democrats did complain about the ways that Republicans were expanding the power of committee chairs to go after a Democratic president.

Drew Hammill, a spokesman for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, said in 2015 that expanding subpoena power would lead “inevitably to widespread abuses of power as Republicans infect the other committees with the poisonous process that Issa has so abused during his chairmanship.”

Republicans say their expansion of committee power was in response to a lack of cooperation from the Obama White House.

And as to the calls for a full House v**e? In fact, that was done in 1974 and 1998 — in the run-up to the impeachment hearings of Presidents Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton — because a full House v**e was required to authorize committee staff to conduct depositions, which occur behind closed doors.

Republicans, however, got rid of that requirement.

Democrats allowed one committee — House Oversight and Government Reform — to set its own rules for staff depositions in 2007. Republicans then extended that power to almost all committees in 2017.
Republican complaints that the president’s attorneys have not been allowed to sit in on the depositions have had more resonance, since Nixon’s attorneys were part of the House Judiciary process in 1974.

But comparisons to the 1998 impeachment of Bill Clinton are of limited value on this point. Much of the investigative work into Clinton was done by independent counsel Ken Starr, and the House moved quickly to impeachment without much of an investigative process.

Molly Reynolds, a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution, said that the House is now “still very much in a fact-finding inquiry” at this point.

That could soon change, as public hearings may commence as soon as mid-November, bringing in for public testimony some individuals who have spoken to staff.

But for now, Reynolds said, the question to ask is, “What stage of the process are we at and what level of t***sparency is appropriate for that?”
img src="https://static.onepoliticalplaza.com/ima... (show quote)
Judge Napolitano is a Paulbot libertarian.

I don't live in a protective bubble, Slat. I don't get my info from the media rumor mill. There are still some journalists out there who embrace the ethics of the profession - honesty, objectivity, independence, impartiality, accountability, t***sparency, and humanity - something you will not find in the MSM mouthpieces.

Ethical journalists do not make up their own stories, or spin a report or resort to manufacturing Pseudo Events

via Fox? via Rueters? From whom did they get the story?

Ever played the Rumor Game, Slat?

A group of people, say at a party, form a circle and one of them is chosen as #1- draw straws, flip a coin, however - Number 1 either makes up a story - 4 or 5 sentences - or reads from a card. #1 whispers the story in the ear of #2 who then, by memory alone, whispers it in the ear of #3, then #3 whispers it to #4 and so on around the circle. The last to hear the story repeats it aloud. Not even close.

Each one in the circle hears what he or she thinks they hear, their perception of the story is subjective, embellished or altered by ones own world view.

Democrats have abandoned bipartisan format of Clinton impeachment

This democrat assault on Trump is not simply the impeachment of a president, it is not based on actual facts or reasonable allegations. This is not simply an attempt to remove a president from office, this is a monumental and thoroughly un-American power grab. This assault is based on an irrational hatred that generates its own extremely biased story, and should it succeed, it will have far reaching consequences for our entire nation. Our American system of governance will be destroyed.

It is a shame that the protective, highly prejudicial bubble you live in won't allow you to see this.

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Oct 26, 2019 16:59:19   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Judge Napolitano is a Paulbot libertarian.

I don't live in a protective bubble, Slat. I don't get my info from the media rumor mill. There are still some journalists out there who embrace the ethics of the profession - honesty, objectivity, independence, impartiality, accountability, t***sparency, and humanity - something you will not find in the MSM mouthpieces.

Ethical journalists do not make up their own stories, or spin a report or resort to manufacturing Pseudo Events

via Fox? via Rueters? From whom did they get the story?

Ever played the Rumor Game, Slat?

A group of people, say at a party, form a circle and one of them is chosen as #1- draw straws, flip a coin, however - Number 1 either makes up a story - 4 or 5 sentences - or reads from a card. #1 whispers the story in the ear of #2 who then, by memory alone, whispers it in the ear of #3, then #3 whispers it to #4 and so on around the circle. The last to hear the story repeats it aloud. Not even close.

Each one in the circle hears what he or she thinks they hear, their perception of the story is subjective, embellished or altered by ones own world view.

Democrats have abandoned bipartisan format of Clinton impeachment

This democrat assault on Trump is not simply the impeachment of a president, it is not based on actual facts or reasonable allegations. This is not simply an attempt to remove a president from office, this is a monumental and thoroughly un-American power grab. This assault is based on an irrational hatred that generates its own extremely biased story, and should it succeed, it will have far reaching consequences for our entire nation. Our American system of governance will be destroyed.

It is a shame that the protective, highly prejudicial bubble you live in won't allow you to see this.
Judge Napolitano is a Paulbot libertarian. br br ... (show quote)

One can't help but notice that while some OPPers see themselves as informed, principled and honest...they often see others as not only ill-informed & wrong but hard-headed, stubborn, belligerent, int***sigent and incorrigible. I also suspect that most of us place ourselves in the first group and not the second.

Shocking, eh Some might call it human nature.

It is, indeed, a shame that the protective, highly prejudicial bubble some live in won't allow them to see the inconvenient t***h. However, denying the t***h doesn't change the facts, it just makes one look foolish and blind. When you deny the t***h the facts will speak for themselves, and you will be like an ostrich with your head in the sand thinking that no one else can see the plain facts either. No denial of the t***h will ever invalidate it.

BTW, Blade, I first heard of/played the rumor game probably 60+ years ago.

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