tNotMyPrez Loc: So. CA, USA

"The Meaning of the Term 'Emolument' "came from: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IF11086.pdf

Full text here:

(Sorry - - upload problem - - still trying - - at 8:42 AM, I should add that I've been trying to upload 2 simple screenshots for 40 minutes and I continue receiving a msg that the site is unreachable. Clearly the site, this site, is VERY reachable, as I am posting and adding other attachments. I'll run out of edit time in a little over 15 mins, but will keep trying till then.)

tNotMyPrez Loc: So. CA, USA

Ahhh - - a philosopher...

However, the more one thinks outside the box, and the next one, and the next one, and the one after that, one realizes we are not in the box or of the box - - that the box is an artificial boundary.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

All boundaries are artificial to the mind... Yet without them the mind lacks the impetus for growth..

How to find proper stimuli and apply it in a methodical way is the rub

Folk are seeking the boundaries of the universe...When we still haven't found an end to the boundaries contained within a single atom

Point??? We homo sapiens like boundaries and will never stop seeking them out

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

You are not that in to historical facts, are you? First, let's talk about wealth and presidents. George Washington was indeed a wealthy man who had no problems running his private business, and indeed increasing the worth of his property using tax payer monies. George Washington, in his letters made it clear, the United States was conceived in business, founded on business, and operated as a business. A lot of people forget about this. When we talk about the United States, we talk about freedom and many other topics. We don’t think much about business. George's mother, according to his letters, taught him that the moral man is industrious and vice versa. She taught him that building your own prosperity is, in and of itself, an ethical thing to do.


So, let us discuss the emolument clause, and if you understand it differently, please voice your objection.

The clause "No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind wh**ever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State."


Hamilton was the author of this clause and he had excellent reasons, "One of the weak sides of republics, among their numerous advantages, is that they afford too easy an inlet to foreign corruption." The Federalist No. 22 (Alexander Hamilton).

Louis XVI had the custom of presenting expensive gifts to departing ministers who had signed treaties with France, including American diplomats. In 1780, the King gave Arthur Lee a portrait of the King set in diamonds above a gold snuff box; and in 1785, he gave Benjamin Franklin a similar miniature portrait, also set in diamonds. Likewise, the King of Spain presented John Jay (during negotiations with Spain) with the gift of a horse. The possibility that such gestures might unduly influence American officials in their dealings with foreign states, the Framers institutionalized the practice of requiring the consent of Congress before one could accept "any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind wh**ever, from...a foreign State."


However, this provision of the Constitution does not seem to be written in stone, as there has been modifications over the years. One most recent, put in place by the obama administration reads: "an employee may not accept a gift of more than minimal value unless it appears that to refuse the gift would likely cause offense or embarrassment or otherwise adversely affect the foreign relations of the United States." HHS General Administration Manual Chapter 20-25, Foreign Gifts and Decorations, the section on Gifts of Minimal Value.


One has to wonder if this change had anything to do with Nicolas Sarkozy's (former president of France) many gifts to Obama and his wife: Mr. Sarkozy gave his U.S. counterpart a Louis Vuitton men's business bag embossed with "BO," along with a Lacoste white polo shirt and a glass sculpture of Alexander the Great's horse, Bucephalus. Ms. Bruni gave First Lady Michelle Obama a $5,500 set of Baccarat crystal table lamps. Appealing to the jock in Mr. Obama, Mr. Sarkozy also gave him a crystal golf statuette and a $7,750 Hermes golf bag. Other leaders also took note of the U.S. leader's interest in sports. German chancellor Angela Merkel gave him a $1,400 German-made Kramski putter set. And, there were more..see https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/us-releases-list-of-gifts-obama-received-from-foreign-governments-guess-what-we-sent/article11570646/

So, using the last administration's gift guide, it is clear that gifts to the US President can exceed $50,000 per gift.


So, what is an emolument? Legally it is defined as, the profit arising from office, employment, or labor; that which is received as a compensation for services, or which is annexed to the possession of office as salary, fees, and perquisites. Any perquisite, advantage, profit, or gain arising from the possession of an office. This raises the question of memoir? If while in office a President writes a book based on their time in office, then sells that book have they violated the "clause?"

From the start of his presidency, people have been under the impression that President Trump runs his businesses and this is unethical. But, t***h is he placed his holdings in a trust overseen by his eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., and Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg before assuming office.

So, my point is from Washington thru Obama, no one was overly concerned about how many, or prices of gifts received by the first family. No one was concerned about where they vacationed. And certainly no one was concerned about their real estate holdings.....but in 2017, this is all of a sudden became news worthy? The Emolument Clause has shifted and changed from the time of Hamilton who thought that a civil servant (including the president) should not accept anything of value from any nation without expressed permission to presidents accepting gifts exceeding $50K each (and when leaving the WH taking those gifts as personal property). And we had no issues with rich presidents in the past (Washington, Jefferson, Roosevelt, Jackson....to name only a few), but now we do?

tNotMyPrez Loc: So. CA, USA

"...When we still haven't found an end to the boundaries contained within a single atom" End ??? And it's likely it mayn't EVER be found because everything folds unto itself; warps, if you will. The wisdom of the Tai Chi

tNotMyPrez Loc: So. CA, USA

Well, that's it - - you'll need to go to the link if you want to read the text - - I don't know what the problem is, but I surrender...

ETA @ 9:28 AM - - well, for some strange reason, I came back to try one more time...

AND - - SUCCESS !!!

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Off to bed.. Taoism is a great way to redefine the parameters of the box...

To truly own something one must be willing to let it go

tNotMyPrez Loc: So. CA, USA

And if it comes back to you, it's yours forever; and if it doesn't, it never was - - Butterflies are free - - sleep well...