TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

Unlike yourself, Rose, I read, consider, and take to heart everything you write to me.

Which one of us, then, is more loving?

Unlike yourself Rose, I spend many hours in prayer, study, and contemplation for words to help you see how you've rejected what Jesus holds most dear. In doing so I consider your statements and address them but you dismiss anything I say as the ravings of a lunatic.

Which one of us, then, is more loving?

"So then, have I become your enemy by telling you the truth?" Galatians 4:16

"As many as I love, I reprove and chasten. Be zealous therefore, and repent." Revelation 3:19

"You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him." Leviticus 19:17

"This testimony is true. For this cause, reprove them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith" Titus 1:13

Once again you've resorted to a railing accusation and an ad hominem. You claim to understand "love" but you won't take the time to reasonably reply to my requests of you. I've even practically begged you to show me where the Bible commands us to believe as you do in a Trinity and you've blown me off as insignificant and not worth the bother. (Let me know if you've forgotten that post and I'll dig it up and repost it for you).

And you have gall to say I'm not loving in the same post where you express your complete lack of love for me.

It is written again:

"But Michael, the archangel, when contending with the devil and arguing about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him an abusive condemnation, but said, "May the Lord rebuke you!" Jude 1:9

If Michael the archangel didn't have the arrogance to condemn someone based on their own view, how is it you dare to have such arrogance? And how is it you come to believe such railing accusations of yours are "love" in the eyes of God?

And why, as I've asked you several times and been ignored by you:

Why don't you love Jesus, Rose?

“Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person” 1 John 2:4

“44Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me, believes not in me, but in him who sent me. 45He who sees me sees him who sent me. 46I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in the darkness. 47If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day. 49For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak ." John 12:44-50

28One of the scribes... asked him, "Which commandment is foremost of all?" 29Jesus answered, "The greatest is, 'Hear, Israel, the Lord our God (singular), the Lord (singular) is one (singular): 30you shall love the Lord (singular) your God (singular) with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.... 32The scribe said to him, "Truly, teacher, you have said well that he (singular) is one (singular), and there is none other but he (singular), 33and to love him (singular) with all the heart, and with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more important than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34When Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God.” Mark 12:28-34

Rose42

Thats not in evidence Tommy. And even the way you slyly ask “why don’t you love Jesus” demonstrates a serpents tongue.

There is no concern for the salvation of others.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Hi Tommy...

I would like to agree with Rose here...

I have never met a Trinitarian who didn't love Jesus...

We can love something that we don't understand...

I don't think you have a "serpent tongue" or anything like that... I think you tell it clearly and concisely.. And that not all are receptive to the message...

But Trinitarians are certainly capable of loving Christ and the Lord....

Just my opinion...

When it comes down to it, can we ever truly understand God?


Hi Rose....

Is can assure you that Tommy is very concerned with the salvation of others... As are most Christians... He has spent an amazing amount of time on his posts.. And has never failed to respond to one of my queries, even when he knew the answer wasn't what I wanted to hear....

If the two of you disregarded the Trinity and spoke of faith for a bit, I am certain you would agree on just about everything...


God bless you both...

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

It’s one thing to love someone and another thing to love your idea of them that isn’t truly them.

If Jesus says “If you love me keep my commandments”, and someone hears his commandment and chooses to disobey, how is the question not valid?

In the Old Testament, God constantly berated His people for going after other gods. He likened His covenant with them as a marriage.

If someone told you they “loved” their spouse, but constantly did things they knew terribly displeased their spouse, wouldn’t it be legitimate to ask, why don’t you love your spouse enough to not do what displeases them? Especially when it is totally in your power to do what they ask and not to do what they don’t like?

For example, it is because I love my wife that for 40 years I’ve remained faithful to her. It certainly isn’t because my human nature doesn’t tempt me otherwise, it is because it would break my heart as well as hers to be unfaithful and I couldn’t live with myself for that.

True love is more than feelings, it also requires action. Read James 2:16.

The truth of the matter is, Incarnationists don’t love the true, biblical Jesus, rather, they love the man-made image of Jesus they have created for themselves to love and they give that “image” their devotion.

How is this not true?

Edited

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Grrrrr... (me grinding my teeth)

You have an excellent point... (usually do )

I think the qualifier "enough" is the key point here... Love stumbles, no?



Now... To consider that worshipping Jesus as God is comparable to worshipping other gods...

I disagree.... Ultimately Trinitarians are still worshipping the God of Abraham... They have simply (poor choice of adverbs) conflated Christ with Him....

It is one thing to worship a false idol... Another entirely to worship incorrectly (perhaps also a poor choice of adverbs)...



Ah... But does God still love them? And is their love denied by our Lord?

Intent must always be taken into account....



All excellent points....

I believe it comes down to a matter of "degree"...

We know that the Lord forgave the Jews numerous times for worshipping false gods... (although there were some pretty awesome punishments)... Could He do less for His Christian children?


Looking forward to your response.... Though I am also heading off to bed fairly soon.. Forgive me if I don't respond immediately...





Edit: I responded before your edit...

But congratulations on 40 years

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

Like I said, I’ve been married for 40 years and never stumbled. Tempted yes, but never followed through. And that was only when I was younger. I’ve long since overcome that nonsense.

And I certainly didn’t go so far as to expect my wife to enter into a permanent covenantal threesome!

You would be arguing that planned, premeditated, habitual adultery is the same as a little stumble in one’s immaturity? I’m not buying it.

So, there’s also a level of maturity that comes to play.

“5but the goal of this command is love, out of a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith; 6from which things some, having missed the mark, have turned aside to vain talking; 7desiring to be teachers of the law, though they understand neither what they say, nor about what they strongly affirm.” 1 Timothy 1:5-7

Besides, God didn’t allow the idolatrous Israelites to remain in their idolatry: He either destroyed them or sent them into bondage.

“The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent” Acts 17:30

Trinitarians and other Incarnationists are making it, their adulterous relation with other god, part of their religion, or marriage, by bringing in pagan gods under Christian sounding names. This is why they insist that Jesus, as logos, which is the name of a pagan deity, be the one they worship by denying that “word” simply means “word” and must be interpreted in the pagan sense of the deity by that name.

There’s no coincidence here, it is planned, calculated, and deliberate. That’s what you learn when you read how the early Trinitarians purposely merged their philosophical background with their newfound Christianity. That is why and how it was pagan-converted Christians that developed the trinity, not the Jewish Christians.

This is why I’ve spent so much time showing the actual sources and development of the Trinity.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

I have been mulling this over...

Just got into bed...

I believe there is a flaw in the analogy.... But I am not seeing it at the moment... Promise to post an answer come morning...

God bless, Tommy

TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA

Looking forward to any flaws you may find.

God bless you too, and good night.

Rose42

His posts reflect more pride at his somehow discovering something many learned men have somehow overlooked over the centuries (men with more knowledge of biblical history) and his entire premise is false to begin with - its not fact but supposition. Joel Osteen and many other false teachers or proponents of false doctrine have also spent HUGE amounts of time writing books, sermons and articles. They also have their defenders. A well known Catholic apologist whose name escapes me has done much as Tommy has promoting Mary as a new Ark of the Covenant and insists its true. I've read that too. That also goes nowhere even though much has been written about it. And its also based on a false premise.

Unitarians and those who claim Jesus is not God love an idea of Jesus but deny part of his nature. It doesn't mean they don't love who they think he is but that they deny who he is. Many people have a false idea of who Jesus is.

Misdirected faith helps no one.

bahmer

Amen and Amen

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

If unable to discuss the Deity who is the object of your faith, you are left to discuss what?

...faith in your faith?

That is meaningless.

bahmer

Are we not created in Gods image? Does that mean that we are just one entity or are we three entities in one body? I believe that we are body soul and spirit which are three entities in one body. We have gid the Son which is a in a physical body and we have God the Spirit in the form of the Holy Spirit and we have God the Father which represents the soul of God so to speak. This may be kind of simplistic but that is the way that I have always visualized it. For what it is worth.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

What you have said, bahmer, I believe to be all true to anyone with the faith and basic understanding to accept it! This has always been true to all with eyes to see.

There are those in pursuit of their own creation, a pink unicorn, perhaps, something "new" of their own discovery, who will never accept what God has revealed to us about Himself.

Rose42

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

I liked this... And I have usually found your words to be of worth