PeterS

Now here is the question: you conservatives are always yammering about how we liberals are r****t because the Democratic party has a history of r****m going back to the Civil War. If that's true then why is it you con's who embrace the stars and bars and statues to southern generals today? If your roots are from the north and you are proud members of the party of Lincoln you should be proud to talk a stand against r****m represented by the symbols of the south...cuz, as Dale said, "it is offensive to the entire human race!"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2015/06/26/dale-earnhardt-jr-jeff-gordon-confederate-f**g-nascar/29349435/?fbclid=IwAR2Yeh4dek0gTqW1WpwtClBTFOVT_EDtWiqUh53aofdhcLAJj4c5mGl0Q84

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Hey Peter,
Hope all is well.

I'm against removing any history good or bad. Seeing and remembering all history is our compass on which direction our and the next generation takes.

I also believe we live in an over sensitive generation that is offended by most anything, get over it and move on this thin skinned generation. The birth of politically correct speech is hogwash too.

Buts that's just what I believe for what it's worth.

Jack

ImLogicallyRight

I with you on that Jack.

And what is that history. To many democrats of old, that f**g stood for their r****m and hatred of b****s they felt superior to. It was as much of the democrat party as the white hoods and lynching. Like it is now with A****a wearing black masks and beating up innocent people and stifling free speech.

But to others, mostly southerners, it was a symbol of their short lived country, the Confederate States of America. Sure, many fought for the right to own s***es. Mostly the officers. But hundreds of men fought in that war for the right to be free as they saw it. Not for the Negro, but for themselves to be free of northern tyranny and taxes. These were poor people, enlisted men fighting for their state. Back then, many had a greater allegiance to their state then the United States. Just because some men signed a Constitution and defeated the British, that didn't change the allegiance of many others. That is what many fought for. Many wave(ed) that f**g now as their remembrance of that war their ancestors lost, but also for their part of a now greater America. Most don't wave that f**g because they want to bring back s***ery. They love the south and that f**g represented the south. And they still revere their officers, especially General Robert E. Lee. It is mainly a r****t symbol to those that h**e it and don't understand those that wave it.

I'm a northerner. If I was alive back then, I might of fought for the north. Not the south. But I have enough intelligence to know that to many, it isn't about hatred or bringing back s***ery. The same with the statues. Remember, their were s***es in the north well after they were freed in the south. General Ulysses S. Grant had s***es after General Robert E. Lee freed his. Do you want to tear down the statues of Rev. King. He c***ted on his wife often and I've heard other nasty things about him. He wasn't perfect. Either was Roosevelt, Kennedy, Johnson, surely Clinton (did anyone ever actually name anything after him?)

It is all part of out history, some good and some bad, but all worth remembering and honoring it as you see fit as we move forward, hopefully to the freedom to honor what you want as long as you don't directly harm others.

PeterS

Remembering history for the purpose of not repeating it is one thing but remembering for the purpose of venerating in it is fully another. I have a feeling that when it comes to the stars and bars and our southern generals the issue is the last which is why I object to it. One, the south was defeated and two what they stood for was nothing that we should be proud of. This isn't a question of being sensitive but a question of what do we stand proudly next to and I don't think r****m and the makeup of the south is something that we should be proud of as a nation.

Radiance3

===============
What ever happened in the past, there are always lessons to be learned good and bad, as we evolve our lives. I think history must be preserved. Most of all the events that happened we learned from it, good or bad.

Most of all what do we have now? Breath a sigh of relief, enjoy God's gift of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
I think we all must be thankful. Instead of carrying endless hatred of the past 400 years ago. I think we must be grateful to God that now, we have the freedom where hundreds of thousands of lives of our ancestors paid for it.
Count your blessings instead, accept God's gift, and live according to what God wants us. You'll be a lot happier and and in peace, as you journey to God's home.

working class stiff Loc: N. Carolina

What makes these statues 'history'? Statues to generals and other leaders fighting for the stars and bars are only a small part of the full history of that they commemorate. And they are decidedly one sided. There are no statues to Frederick Douglas or Sojourner T***h, nor to the many southerners who fought to preserve the Union. In places like NC, where there were few major battles fought between the main forces, a true civil war was fought by local forces and m*****as who were pro secession and pro Union. Yet there are no statues on the county courthouse and other public grounds commemorating the folks who fought against the Confederacy.

The origins of those statues and commemorations signify a different 'history' than they depict. They signify the re-institution of second class status for a large segment of American citizens in the south. If those statues were truly history they would tell that story. Their plaques would read something like ' At this time and place b***k A******ns were re-subjugated'.

Besides, we remove history all the time. How many historical buildings have been demolished to make room for the new? What makes these statues and commemorations on public lands, that depict 'history' that is one sided, so sacred that they cannot be put into actual history museums? History museums would actually be able to tell a much fuller story about those statues, and I think the folks who idolize them are afraid to have them removed for that reason.

The overly sensitive folks whining about their removal are the thin skinned ones. The statues need to be put into museums and taken off public lands. Time to move on and get over it.

But that's just me.

Kevyn

The Confederacy is a defeated enemy of the United States their warped t*****rous actions caused the deaths of more Americans than Tojo, Hitler and Bin Laden combined. Anyone claiming p***e in ancestors such as these should be ashamed of themselves. They cant help who spawned them and shouldn’t be condemned for that but they sure as hell should be condemned for celebration of such t*****rous scum. Every truck flying an enemies f**g be it ISIL, a n**i f**g or the t*****rous stars and bars should get a brick through the windshield.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

Dale Earnharldt, Jr. is entitled to his opinion about the Confederate f**g being offensive to an entire race as is anyone but there are other facts about its background that PeterS ignores. (PeterS ignores everything that does not comport with his view of the world. He always states his opinion as if it is the end of the discussion.) Perhaps a strong majority of b****s find the f**g offensive but not all.

At its inception, the so-called Civil War (I prefer the term War for Confederate Secession) was about secession and not s***ery. Abraham Lincoln said that throughout the first years of the conflict. It was only when he saw he could make political capital out of it that he began to even mention s***ery.

Attorneys for the federal government did not pursue treason charges against Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis and other Confederate leaders after the r*******n, despite clamor for it by many radical Republicans, because of uncertainty as to whether the case against secession could be sustained in court. The Constitutional doesn’t mention secession and at least two states (New York & Virginia?) put clauses in their ratification bills reserving the right to secede if it proved unsatisfactory to them.) This contrasts with The Articles of Confederation which stated that the union of the states would be in perpetuity but it was replaced by the current constitution.

PeterS disparages any Confederate right of secession yet never answers the legitimate question about our right to rise up against the Crown and do the identical thing the Confederacy was trying to do. It all gets so sticky for intellectual boors.

Radiance3

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We must appreciate those 620,000 who died and sacrificed, so that all could have equal rights of freedom. S***ery started from the tyranny of England. The Founders fought years in the battle 8.5 years they bled their blood to obtain freedom. But the hatred did not last long. We still recognize England as the motherland.

But this term s***ery never ends. Why? You are destroying the statues of those who fought for our freedom. Those are the bravest men and most brilliant who've created us a nation where our rights are written in the constitution. We must thank them instead.

Forget about hatred, and s***ery.
Everybody those days have been s***es. But why are there people now whose hatred never ends since 400 years ago? Why do they have so much revenge when all of us experience one way or another similar trials.
Instead they must be thankful that America have given them so much because of the Founders who built this land.

Smedley_buzkill

You keep harping on the "r****m of the South." I live in the South and I've seen far more r****m when I lived in Maryland than I ever did here in Georgia.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

This is precisely the angry, judgmental, irrational, h**e-filled posting I have come to expect from you & I am sure I am not alone on OPP in this.

I'd have p***e in any ancestor who fought for that cause and would hang my head in shame were you a descendant of mine.

You really are a lowlife.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

Notice, it's 24 hours since I posted this and PeterS has not responded.

America 1 Loc: South Miami

Another brilliant remedy,
a brick will certainly solve the problem.

Pariahjf

Then why has this country only told ONE side of American history? We never hear about what all other cultures that were here were doing, how they existed, what happened to them, how they governed. We don't talk about the treaties that were broken, Irish s***ery, land theft, massacres of indigineous tribes, slaughter of several species, paper genocide, the Yamassee Wars, why the US could no longer import s***es after 1803, etc. Too much is missing and they are teaching the wrong things in school now.

Radiance3

===============
Schools don't teach the true history anymore. And if they do, they teach the opposite of the facts. Millennials indoctrination in colleges and universities now defines how they behave. We have to realize that our freedom was achieved through the lives and sacrifices of the Founders who have the wisdom and great courage creating freedom in this great country that we live now.

If you know history, the lives offered by the Founders, how they secured independence from the tyranny of the King of England, they fought for many years, many of them forfeited their pays, with lack of food, and equipment to fight against the British, they still went on until victory was achieved. Read the history and the sacrifices of George Washington, the leader of the Continental Armies for 8.5 years. It was a very touching moment. I could not help but cried realizing that our freedom was achieved thru their lives and sacrifices. How can we be so ungrateful for what we have now? Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are equally given to us all. Where could you find that? Not in the c*******t or socialist countries.

But yet, these ungrateful are k*****g us. The B*M, A****A, MS13GANGS, are all protected and supported by the Socialist-Democrat party.

Everybody sacrificed especially the forefathers who started nothing but their wisdom and great courage, and sacrifices to have their own. Then came the Irish, Italians, Jews, people from Asia, and built the great infrastructures that we have, highways digging the mountains of passages so we could t***sport our lives and goods of commerce to another place. The pilgrims worked very hard. They came with nothing only their faith in God. They sweat out all what they have. The natives k**led them as they strive, diseases and adverse climate conditions k**led so many of them. They did not complain.

But recent coming from other countries they don't have any patriotism and loyalty to this country. They brought their own p***e, demand, and accuse the W****s of r****t. Most of them become criminals and drug dealers to destroy this country. And all they do is SHOUT R****T WHITEYS. Shame on them. They must be thankful they are allowed to come.