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Is violence in the pursuit of freedom acceptable?
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Aug 25, 2019 16:48:03   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
proud republican wrote:
You my dear know no history or facts...



I agree. It would be very hard to compete with Kevyn & his ignorance of history. I have to credit them though with their adroitness and success in blaming c*******t China and Adolf Hitler's German National socialism on the Right.

That's the one thing they are very good at. Look at The Squad. They claim the USSR, Red China and Cuba were not socialism. In this, they are aided and abetted by the media and academe.

Kevyn will never own up to the similarity between his philosophy and National Socialism, c*******m and F*****m.

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Aug 25, 2019 16:53:34   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
Kevyn wrote:
We celebrate our revolution as our forefathers declared independence and fought the British to gain it. The outnumbered Americans resorted to gorilla warfare, sniping from hiding places and sabotage to obtain their goals, this was at the time a grosse violation of the rules of war. Now in places from Moscow to Hong Kong citizens are demanding their freedom from oppressive dictators and true suffrage. The police and military in these cities are using violence in an effort to prevent the mostly peaceful demonstrations and show no willingness to meet the peoples very reasoned demands for basic freedom. My question is this, at what point is it right for the oppressed people to also resort to violence and asymmetric warfare to obtain their rights? The Chinese and Russian propaganda machines are already labeling these legitimate protests terrorism. Shouldn't the free world support these peoples quest for freedom in every way we can?
We celebrate our revolution as our forefathers dec... (show quote)




Ours was not a revolution. It was a war for independence. The philosophies of the Great Britain and the country we founded were very similar.

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Aug 25, 2019 16:57:43   #
Kevyn
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
Ours was not a revolution. It was a war for independence. The philosophies of the Great Britain and the country we founded were very similar.

It is called the revolutionary war

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Aug 25, 2019 21:10:37   #
PLT Sarge Loc: Alabama
 
Kevyn wrote:
We celebrate our revolution as our forefathers declared independence and fought the British to gain it. The outnumbered Americans resorted to gorilla warfare, sniping from hiding places and sabotage to obtain their goals, this was at the time a grosse violation of the rules of war. Now in places from Moscow to Hong Kong citizens are demanding their freedom from oppressive dictators and true suffrage. The police and military in these cities are using violence in an effort to prevent the mostly peaceful demonstrations and show no willingness to meet the peoples very reasoned demands for basic freedom. My question is this, at what point is it right for the oppressed people to also resort to violence and asymmetric warfare to obtain their rights? The Chinese and Russian propaganda machines are already labeling these legitimate protests terrorism. Shouldn't the free world support these peoples quest for freedom in every way we can?
We celebrate our revolution as our forefathers dec... (show quote)


I do agree that citizens of a country have the right to address for their rights under an oppressive government, just as Americans did. If there are no concessions from that government then the citizens have the right to rebel. Not in the French Revolution manner, but as we Americans achieved our freedom. I also believe that America should stay out of the affairs of other countries. Only in the event of clear mass murder and, or genocide should other nations become involved.

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Aug 26, 2019 11:00:04   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
factnotfiction wrote:
Really? Sell that lie to the founders of this country, violent revolution worked, and also in Viet Nam, and some times it doesn't like the south found out in Civil War, and the countless revolutions around the world, like in Mexico, countries in Africa and in your mother russia.

Better read a few more history books before such unfounded statements


All wars and most violence is about who gets rich and who gets poorer. Study the history of the money lenders, central banks and you'll learn a lot you didn't know.

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Aug 26, 2019 11:10:04   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
Kevyn wrote:
We celebrate our revolution as our forefathers declared independence and fought the British to gain it. The outnumbered Americans resorted to gorilla warfare, sniping from hiding places and sabotage to obtain their goals, this was at the time a grosse violation of the rules of war. Now in places from Moscow to Hong Kong citizens are demanding their freedom from oppressive dictators and true suffrage. The police and military in these cities are using violence in an effort to prevent the mostly peaceful demonstrations and show no willingness to meet the peoples very reasoned demands for basic freedom. My question is this, at what point is it right for the oppressed people to also resort to violence and asymmetric warfare to obtain their rights? The Chinese and Russian propaganda machines are already labeling these legitimate protests terrorism. Shouldn't the free world support these peoples quest for freedom in every way we can?
We celebrate our revolution as our forefathers dec... (show quote)


Who attacked who in our war for independence?? Had we not declared our intent? Did they not send an army to put down the revolution??

As for the rules of war, if a military commander is willing to march his troops into battle uncovered, not matter what "tradition" had dictated, it was just stupidity. I also don't think the American army went around burning cities and k*****g civilians.

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Aug 26, 2019 11:11:01   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Kevyn wrote:
Our nation was founded through a violent revolution, it sure as hell worked here.


Not really, the colonies had private script/money and we were prosperous. Then merry old England outlawed it. Then added more taxes. Many letters were sent to the King asking him to reconsider his actions, He refused. Were we suppose to allow our children to become s***es and serfs with no ability to own land of their own? Would you like to hang because you caught a rabbit on the King's land? He owned all the land. Would you like to have a beer and wake up on a British warship? Right is right and wrong is wrong even if you are a king or queen.

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Aug 26, 2019 11:13:28   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Kevyn wrote:
Our nation was founded through a violent revolution, it sure as hell worked here.


Our Founders intentionally provided American citizens the means, through the second amendment, to o*******w a repressive government or stop a bunch of radicals, like the Socialist Left, whose purpose is to change our government incrementally so that it's hardly recognizable anymore. That surely includes people as incomprehensible as you!

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Aug 26, 2019 12:34:52   #
amadjuster Loc: Texas Panhandle
 
padremike wrote:
Our Founders intentionally provided American citizens the means, through the second amendment, to o*******w a repressive government or stop a bunch of radicals, like the Socialist Left, whose purpose is to change our government incrementally so that it's hardly recognizable anymore. That surely includes people as incomprehensible as you!


That's exactly what Jefferson thought.

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Aug 26, 2019 13:24:30   #
maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
 
Kevyn wrote:
We celebrate our revolution as our forefathers declared independence and fought the British to gain it. The outnumbered Americans resorted to gorilla warfare, sniping from hiding places and sabotage to obtain their goals, this was at the time a grosse violation of the rules of war. Now in places from Moscow to Hong Kong citizens are demanding their freedom from oppressive dictators and true suffrage. The police and military in these cities are using violence in an effort to prevent the mostly peaceful demonstrations and show no willingness to meet the peoples very reasoned demands for basic freedom. My question is this, at what point is it right for the oppressed people to also resort to violence and asymmetric warfare to obtain their rights? The Chinese and Russian propaganda machines are already labeling these legitimate protests terrorism. Shouldn't the free world support these peoples quest for freedom in every way we can?
We celebrate our revolution as our forefathers dec... (show quote)


Kevyn, most "civilized" nations at that time in history did not have rules of war, but they DID have strict ideas on how a war should be fought. The British marched in formation and soldiers were not allowed to take cover when attacked from woods and bushes. As their men fell, the rest maintained formation and took no action. This really irritated the Redcoats because we didn't fight "fair". That was a unique time in history and probably will never be repeated.
I don't know about the Russians but the Chinese are very oppressive to their citizenry. One thing that hurts the freedom fighters cause is the huge population. There are so many people that they don't have the same sense of empathy for the injured and k**led as we do. You can see it in videos where people are ran over and no one even stops to see if the victim is OK. I have actually seen a video where a child was ran over 3 times! People walking by didn't even look. Without empathy, it's hard to get support for any cause.
I need to do some research on China because I really don't understand it. How can a nation be c*******t AND embrace capitalization? I do know that a few years ago, several factories closed down in China. The employees had no unemployment benefits, no food stamps, most also lost their homes (owned by the company) and were simply put out on the street.
So, to answer your question, if we support these uprisings (however justified), more than we already do, we will be accused of meddling in other country's affairs.

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Aug 26, 2019 15:26:59   #
cbpat1
 
Kevyn wrote:
We celebrate our revolution as our forefathers declared independence and fought the British to gain it. The outnumbered Americans resorted to gorilla warfare, sniping from hiding places and sabotage to obtain their goals, this was at the time a grosse violation of the rules of war. Now in places from Moscow to Hong Kong citizens are demanding their freedom from oppressive dictators and true suffrage. The police and military in these cities are using violence in an effort to prevent the mostly peaceful demonstrations and show no willingness to meet the peoples very reasoned demands for basic freedom. My question is this, at what point is it right for the oppressed people to also resort to violence and asymmetric warfare to obtain their rights? The Chinese and Russian propaganda machines are already labeling these legitimate protests terrorism. Shouldn't the free world support these peoples quest for freedom in every way we can?
We celebrate our revolution as our forefathers dec... (show quote)




Finally a well thought out post. Good post.

That’s a good question kevyn. There is a lot to think about. This post is the very reason I believe our own public, with exceptions of course should be allowed to own guns like AR-15’s, because someday, God forbid, the day might come and the people will need to be armed.

Who knows on a forum like this when the “time” is, however, I suppose the people would know. There are always people in those situations, but they feel too intimidated because the government has such an overwhelming advantage, when it comes to weapons and such. Here I am in my Chevy Tahoe and my 4 handguns, shotgun which hasn’t been shot in over 30 years and my grandpas sixty five year old 22 against the governments tanks and cannon attached to it and machine guns.

Then you have the people who are behind the scenes trying to get people, who have weapons or who have some way to help them, perhaps another government, trying to find some way to better level the playing field

Then you have the people, usually the young who are ready to fight, get out there and shoot them up. But the sad t***h is, without another government getting involved, it would be almost impossible for the people to beat the government in a war, short of, that is, the governments army taking the side of the people. Sad but true.

I think for those reasons this is why there are very few uprisings by the people, unfortunately. I would love to see the people get armed in Venezuela and I think the army or at least part of it would side with the people. I think the people would get military help from someone also.

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Aug 26, 2019 15:41:21   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
amadjuster wrote:
That’s depressing! You should just drop out.


Only a radical few in America have a problem with the rule of law. The rest live by it and get by quite well. Unless some moonbats try to interfere. I don't think that they realize it, they've crossed every red line. The next logical step will be violence and they REALLY aren't prepared. If I, Benzle, Rob or a Proud Boy can facedown their cell by ourselves, they shouldn't count on them unless...

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Aug 26, 2019 18:46:42   #
debeda
 
proud republican wrote:
Violence doesn't work...Never did...Take Russian Revolution in 1917 how many millions of people died and for what???C*******m???...70 yrs later it all fell apart anyways...Violence only work with C*******m ,f*****m(A****a).....You can protest w/out violence and say a lot with your voice!!!


Civil discourse is the route of a civilized people. Anarchy and violence is the route of thugs and would-be dictators. IMHO.

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Aug 26, 2019 18:48:11   #
debeda
 
factnotfiction wrote:
My answer is HISTORY and FACT, instead of your rambling hyperbole about things you have no clue about


Hyperbole??? We are talking about countrymen turning on each other. D********g.

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Aug 26, 2019 21:31:07   #
Tsion1953
 
factnotfiction wrote:
Really? Sell that lie to the founders of this country, violent revolution worked, and also in Viet Nam, and some times it doesn't like the south found out in Civil War, and the countless revolutions around the world, like in Mexico, countries in Africa and in your mother russia.

Better read a few more history books before such unfounded statements


Nailed it.

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