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Out of control spending by trump administration?
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Jul 11, 2019 20:53:19   #
Rose42
 
woodguru wrote:
Get your debt and deficits straight, there is an irrelevance to debt created by deficits a president did not create.

Here's a true statement, Trump is already increasing debt at a higher rate per year than Obama did. Obama reduced the rate at which debt was accruing, Trump is increasing it through unnecessary tax cuts.


Thanks for proving my point once again about partisanship.

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Jul 12, 2019 06:00:34   #
America 1
 
woodguru wrote:
Obama reduced the Bush deficit he took over by $900 Billion from the $1.4 Trillion it was at, and what does the GOP do but ram an ill conceived tax cut for the wealthy through and start increasing the deficit right out the gate. And it's done in such a way that it goes up every year higher than the last year.

When there is a deficit of $500 Billion is not the time to cut taxes for the wealthy and increase spending as well.


In raw terms, Trump added the second-most debt of any recent president. According to the Treasury data, the US added $2.07 trillion — $2,065,536,336,472.90 to be exact — in new debt between Trump's inauguration on January 20, 2017, and February 11, when the country pushed past $22 trillion. (The US added another $2.8 billion through February 15, the latest daily figures available.)

That is less than the $3.46 trillion added between Obama's inauguration in January 2009 and February 11, 2011
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-national-debt-deficit-compared-to-obama-bush-clinton-2019-2

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Jul 12, 2019 07:50:38   #
working class stiff Loc: N. Carolina
 
America 1 wrote:
In raw terms, Trump added the second-most debt of any recent president. According to the Treasury data, the US added $2.07 trillion — $2,065,536,336,472.90 to be exact — in new debt between Trump's inauguration on January 20, 2017, and February 11, when the country pushed past $22 trillion. (The US added another $2.8 billion through February 15, the latest daily figures available.)

That is less than the $3.46 trillion added between Obama's inauguration in January 2009 and February 11, 2011
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-national-debt-deficit-compared-to-obama-bush-clinton-2019-2
In raw terms, Trump added the second-most debt of ... (show quote)


Obama was handed a $1 trillion budget hole which he reduced. Trump was handed a $500 billion budget hole which he has increased to 800b . Obama was handed 'the great recession'. Trump was handed a humming economy. Trump had no reason to increase the deficit by that much, other than handing his friends an increase in wealth.

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Jul 12, 2019 08:43:57   #
Barracuda2020
 
Rose42 wrote:
Obama ramped up the debt much further than Bush did. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Neither side will face the failures of their respective parties.


You're missing the entire fact that Bush climbed us into that debt with an unpaid for war and his tax cuts to the wealthy, Obama had to dig us out of that, and considering all of the sabotaging obstruction it's amazing he actually accomplished anything. This attitude you have that both are equally wrong is inaccurately off base and naive.

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Jul 12, 2019 08:52:26   #
Barracuda2020
 
Rose42 wrote:
Thanks for proving my point once again about partisanship.


Maybe you should reiterate your point, how does what woodguru said have to do with partisan?

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Jul 12, 2019 08:53:31   #
Barracuda2020
 
working class stiff wrote:
Obama was handed a $1 trillion budget hole which he reduced. Trump was handed a $500 billion budget hole which he has increased to 800b . Obama was handed 'the great recession'. Trump was handed a humming economy. Trump had no reason to increase the deficit by that much, other than handing his friends an increase in wealth.


blade talks about the great expansion in his slanted article, the difference between the Clinton and Reagan is that Clinton expanded while chewing down our deficit and finding a balanced budget, All Bush had to do was to keep peddling, apparently, he couldn't steer and we wound up in a ditch. The same with this so-called expansion, the base of this expansion the eight years out of ten was Obama's. We haven't been in a recession since Obama, yet Trump from the first budget approval, approved a budget in the red, wtf? Where's the beef? Where's the money? What do we have to show for it?

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Jul 12, 2019 10:01:47   #
Rose42
 
Barracuda2020 wrote:
You're missing the entire fact that Bush climbed us into that debt with an unpaid for war and his tax cuts to the wealthy, Obama had to dig us out of that, and considering all of the sabotaging obstruction it's amazing he actually accomplished anything. This attitude you have that both are equally wrong is inaccurately off base and naive.


No I'm not missing that. Obama dug us out of nothing and did a lot of damage. Both parties have their excuses.

This is the same old "my party is better than yours" nonsense that is a big problem in this country. Its one reason many of us want nothing to do with either.

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Jul 12, 2019 16:03:24   #
Barracuda2020
 
Rose42 wrote:
No I'm not missing that. Obama dug us out of nothing and did a lot of damage. Both parties have their excuses.

This is the same old "my party is better than yours" nonsense that is a big problem in this country. Its one reason many of us want nothing to do with either.


If you think Obama didn't dig us out of anything ...and did damage, there nothing left to talk about. As I said before, you wanting nothing to do with the other, solves nothing. Both sides may be guilty of somethings but that's no case to stand on, both have very different attitudes. Conservatives say they're all about accountability, but as soon as it comes time to pay the bill they've left the table, and leave the Democrats to pay the tab. Just like now, Trump is doing his thing spending money like there's no tomorrow, building up that tab, so tell me who's going to pay it, with this great expansion, more debt and less tax revenue?

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Jul 12, 2019 17:20:56   #
America 1
 
working class stiff wrote:
Obama was handed a $1 trillion budget hole which he reduced. Trump was handed a $500 billion budget hole which he has increased to 800b . Obama was handed 'the great recession'. Trump was handed a humming economy. Trump had no reason to increase the deficit by that much, other than handing his friends an increase in wealth.


Go Figure: Federal Revenues Hit All-Time Highs Under Trump Tax Cuts
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-tax-cuts-federal-revenues-deficits/

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Jul 12, 2019 18:22:03   #
Rose42
 
Barracuda2020 wrote:
If you think Obama didn't dig us out of anything ...and did damage, there nothing left to talk about. As I said before, you wanting nothing to do with the other, solves nothing. Both sides may be guilty of somethings but that's no case to stand on, both have very different attitudes. Conservatives say they're all about accountability, but as soon as it comes time to pay the bill they've left the table, and leave the Democrats to pay the tab. Just like now, Trump is doing his thing spending money like there's no tomorrow, building up that tab, so tell me who's going to pay it, with this great expansion, more debt and less tax revenue?
If you think Obama didn't dig us out of anything .... (show quote)


Neither is anything solved by devotees to party. Both are dead sure they're right and both attitudes of right and left are smugly self righteous. That solves nothing either.

If you think I'm defending Trump or the republicans I'm not. Just as true liberalism is in its death throes so is true conservatism. I don't see that changing with the next election unless people finally come to their senses.

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Jul 13, 2019 02:53:16   #
Seth
 
factnotfiction wrote:
So now trump wants the debt ceiling increased before congress goes on break.

And while the administration is floating the idea and a year long spending freeze, republicans are complaining that policy would be worse than the much hated "sequestration".

Perhaps the stereotypes of which party is fiscally responsible needs to be updated.


http://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/10/trump-officials-gop-budget-talks-1405570


Not much was said about fiscal responsibility when Obama was adding trillions to the debt. I don't suppose there's any kind of double standard at work here...

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Jul 13, 2019 03:41:51   #
PeterS
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
New York Times archive: The Reagan Boom - Greatest Ever

Almost everyone knows that the greatest depression the U.S. ever had was in the 1930's. It was known as the Great Depression, and its infamy merits a separate section in economics textbooks. But what was its counterpart? When did our greatest economic expansion occur?

We just had it. And it is still expanding, setting new records with each passing month.

We don't know whether historians will call it the Great Expansion of the 1980's or Reagan's Great Expansion, but we do know from official economic statistics that the seven year period from 1982 to 1989 was the greatest, consistent burst of economic activity ever seen in the U.S. In fact, it was the greatest economic expansion the world has ever seen - in any country, at any time.

The two key measures that mark a depression or expansion are jobs and production. Let's look at the records that were set. Creation of jobs. From November 1982, when President Ronald Reagan's new economic program was beginning to take effect, to November 1989, 18.7 million new jobs were created. It was a world record: Never before had so many jobs been created during a comparable time period. The new jobs covered the entire spectrum of work, and more than half of them paid more than $20,000 a year. As total employment grew to 119.5 million, the rate of unemployment fell to slightly over 5 percent, the lowest level in 15 years. Creation of wealth.

The amount of wealth produced during this seven year period was stupendous - some $30 trillion worth of goods and services. Again, it was a world record. Never before had so much wealth been produced during a comparable period. According to a recent study, net asset values - including stocks, bonds and real estate - went up by more than $5 trillion between 1982 and 1989, an increase of roughly 50 percent.

There are other important measures. Steady economic growth. As we begin the decade of the 1990's, we are in our 86th straight month of economic growth - a new record for peacetime, five months longer than the wartime growth of World War II and only 23 months short of the wartime record set during the Vietnam War in the 1960's. Most experts now predict that it will last right through 1990, and perhaps beyond.
Continue reading the main story

Income tax rates, interest rates and inflation.

Under President Reagan, top personal income tax rates were lowered dramatically, from 70 percent to 28 percent. This policy change was the prime force behind the record breaking economic expansion. Interest rates and inflation also fell sharply and, so far, have stayed comfortably low - a further indication of the power and pervasiveness of Mr. Reagan's economic policies. The stock market. Perhaps the key indicator of an economy's booms and busts is the stock market, the bottom line economic report card. And here the record has been striking. During the period from 1970 to 1982, the stock market barely moved. The Standard & Poor's index of 500 stocks inched up about 35 percent during that entire period. But starting in late 1982, just as Reaganomics began to work, the stock market took off like a giant skyrocket. Since then, the Standard & Poor's index has soared, reaching a record high of 360, almost triple what it was in 1982.

There were other consequences of the expansion. Annual Federal spending on public housing and welfare, and on Social Security, Medicare and health all increased by billions of dollars. The poverty rate has fallen steadily since 1983.

When you add up the record of the Reagan years, and the first year of President Bush - during which he has faithfully continued Mr. Reagan's economic policies - the conclusion is clear, inescapable and stunning. We have just witnessed America's Great Expansion.

The Reagan economic expansion was not perfect and we will never have one that is. The Federal budget deficits were too high and still are, too many Federal regulations lay unreformed and the trade deficit is worrisome.

In fact, the Reagan expansion may not have been the best economic expansion in history, for every economic expansion must be judged by many criteria. But if we look at the sheer size and immensity of it, at its scope and power, then it cannot be denied that it was the greatest.

The full impact of the powerful economic recovery that President Reagan launched during the 1980s is still unfolding.

Mr. Reagan's expansion provided the financial resources to allow the U.S. to build up the combat capability of its defense forces and to begin blazing the new trail for a protective missile system. This, in turn, convinced the Soviet rulers they could never defeat the U.S., and today the Soviet Union and the U.S. are busily engaged in nuclear disarmament as peace breaks out in country after country throughout the world.

Equally important, it proved beyond doubt to all (except perhaps for a handful of left-wing faculty members in our best universities) that capitalism is superior to Socialism and Communism. Our economy is the guiding beacon for all those countries that are ripping apart the ruthless collectivist regimes that ruined the lives of their people for so long.

One thing the Marxists got right: Economics is a powerful determining factor of history. But Marxists never dreamed it would be the economics of Ronald Reagan and all those capitalists that would prevail in the end.
b New York Times archive: The Reagan Boom - Great... (show quote)

So get in your wayback machine and enjoy the economy...

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Jul 13, 2019 03:44:14   #
PeterS
 
Seth wrote:
Not much was said about fiscal responsibility when Obama was adding trillions to the debt. I don't suppose there's any kind of double standard at work here...

There is a difference between adding trillions in debt because of a recession and trillions in debt because of tax revenue too low to cover the budget in spite of a growing economy...

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Jul 13, 2019 03:46:42   #
PeterS
 
Rose42 wrote:
No I'm not missing that. Obama dug us out of nothing and did a lot of damage. Both parties have their excuses.

This is the same old "my party is better than yours" nonsense that is a big problem in this country. Its one reason many of us want nothing to do with either.

And how did Obama do a lot of damage? If you are going to point fingers than at least be specific...

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Jul 13, 2019 04:00:30   #
Seth
 
PeterS wrote:
There is a difference between adding trillions in debt because of a recession and trillions in debt because of tax revenue too low in spite of a growing economy...


No, there is a difference between how the money is spent by one and how it is spent by the other.

Much of Obama's "stimulus" spending just seems to have disappeared into a black hole (no pun intended), "shovel-ready jobs" that never materialized, money poured into the financial community that apparently wasn't very stimulating, oh, yes... Obama's peerless investments of our hard earned dinero in Solyndra.

Obama really got us out of that recession, huh?

You can opine in denial to your heart's content, but the fact of the matter is that the economy didn't take off to any notable degree until after Trump's tax cuts came along. 😎

TDS and the truth are by no means compatible.

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