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Out of control spending by trump administration?
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Jul 11, 2019 05:02:37   #
factnotfiction (a regular here)
 
So now trump wants the debt ceiling increased before congress goes on break.

And while the administration is floating the idea and a year long spending freeze, republicans are complaining that policy would be worse than the much hated "sequestration".

Perhaps the stereotypes of which party is fiscally responsible needs to be updated.


http://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/10/trump-officials-gop-budget-talks-1405570

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Jul 11, 2019 05:21:44   #
PeterS (a regular here)
 
factnotfiction wrote:
So now trump wants the debt ceiling increased before congress goes on break.

And while the administration is floating the idea and a year long spending freeze, republicans are complaining that policy would be worse than the much hated "sequestration".

Perhaps the stereotypes of which party is fiscally responsible needs to be updated.


http://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/10/trump-officials-gop-budget-talks-1405570

The budget only counts when Democrats are in power. Just wait until Trump is booted from office and suddenly the budget will become important again.

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Jul 11, 2019 07:51:54   #
Barracuda2020 (a regular here)
 
factnotfiction wrote:
So now trump wants the debt ceiling increased before congress goes on break.

And while the administration is floating the idea and a year long spending freeze, republicans are complaining that policy would be worse than the much hated "sequestration".

Perhaps the stereotypes of which party is fiscally responsible needs to be updated.


http://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/10/trump-officials-gop-budget-talks-1405570


I'd like to know what has he actually improved or done with they've received already? Holy Cow Batman, we're up to 22 trillion!
Ironically our so-called great economy, maybe a facade, according to the Treasury Department data, tax revenue has fallen and federal spending continues to rise. The new debt level reflects a rise of more than $2 trillion from the day President Trump took office in 2017. So much for giving the Corporations and the wealthy their tax breaks. Once again the Repubs are spending money like they got a hold of daddy's credit card again.

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Jul 11, 2019 08:58:05   #
working class stiff
 
PeterS wrote:
The budget only counts when Democrats are in power. Just wait until Trump is booted from office and suddenly the budget will become important again.


Bingo....like Cheney said...Reagan showed that deficits don't matter.
Reagan, Bush II, and now Trump have shown the hypocrisy of the party of fiscal responsibility. Let a Democrat run deficits and it's 'Oh my God...what about the children'.

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Jul 11, 2019 09:09:48   #
Rose42 (a regular here)
 
Both sides play their games and both sides waste billions.

I'd like to see all elected officials fined if they can't balance the budget including the president.

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Jul 11, 2019 17:34:33   #
Barracuda2020 (a regular here)
 
Rose42 wrote:
Both sides play their games and both sides waste billions.

I'd like to see all elected officials fined if they can't balance the budget including the president.


That sideline resolves nothing, no both sides do not operate the same way when it comes to the budget and the deficit. The numbers along with administrations easily prove that.

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Jul 11, 2019 17:38:28   #
Blade_Runner (a regular here)
 
working class stiff wrote:
Bingo....like Cheney said...Reagan showed that deficits don't matter.
Reagan, Bush II, and now Trump have shown the hypocrisy of the party of fiscal responsibility. Let a Democrat run deficits and it's 'Oh my God...what about the children'.
New York Times archive: The Reagan Boom - Greatest Ever

Almost everyone knows that the greatest depression the U.S. ever had was in the 1930's. It was known as the Great Depression, and its infamy merits a separate section in economics textbooks. But what was its counterpart? When did our greatest economic expansion occur?

We just had it. And it is still expanding, setting new records with each passing month.

We don't know whether historians will call it the Great Expansion of the 1980's or Reagan's Great Expansion, but we do know from official economic statistics that the seven year period from 1982 to 1989 was the greatest, consistent burst of economic activity ever seen in the U.S. In fact, it was the greatest economic expansion the world has ever seen - in any country, at any time.

The two key measures that mark a depression or expansion are jobs and production. Let's look at the records that were set. Creation of jobs. From November 1982, when President Ronald Reagan's new economic program was beginning to take effect, to November 1989, 18.7 million new jobs were created. It was a world record: Never before had so many jobs been created during a comparable time period. The new jobs covered the entire spectrum of work, and more than half of them paid more than $20,000 a year. As total employment grew to 119.5 million, the rate of unemployment fell to slightly over 5 percent, the lowest level in 15 years. Creation of wealth.

The amount of wealth produced during this seven year period was stupendous - some $30 trillion worth of goods and services. Again, it was a world record. Never before had so much wealth been produced during a comparable period. According to a recent study, net asset values - including stocks, bonds and real estate - went up by more than $5 trillion between 1982 and 1989, an increase of roughly 50 percent.

There are other important measures. Steady economic growth. As we begin the decade of the 1990's, we are in our 86th straight month of economic growth - a new record for peacetime, five months longer than the wartime growth of World War II and only 23 months short of the wartime record set during the Vietnam War in the 1960's. Most experts now predict that it will last right through 1990, and perhaps beyond.
Continue reading the main story

Income tax rates, interest rates and inflation.

Under President Reagan, top personal income tax rates were lowered dramatically, from 70 percent to 28 percent. This policy change was the prime force behind the record breaking economic expansion. Interest rates and inflation also fell sharply and, so far, have stayed comfortably low - a further indication of the power and pervasiveness of Mr. Reagan's economic policies. The stock market. Perhaps the key indicator of an economy's booms and busts is the stock market, the bottom line economic report card. And here the record has been striking. During the period from 1970 to 1982, the stock market barely moved. The Standard & Poor's index of 500 stocks inched up about 35 percent during that entire period. But starting in late 1982, just as Reaganomics began to work, the stock market took off like a giant skyrocket. Since then, the Standard & Poor's index has soared, reaching a record high of 360, almost triple what it was in 1982.

There were other consequences of the expansion. Annual Federal spending on public housing and welfare, and on Social Security, Medicare and health all increased by billions of dollars. The poverty rate has fallen steadily since 1983.

When you add up the record of the Reagan years, and the first year of President Bush - during which he has faithfully continued Mr. Reagan's economic policies - the conclusion is clear, inescapable and stunning. We have just witnessed America's Great Expansion.

The Reagan economic expansion was not perfect and we will never have one that is. The Federal budget deficits were too high and still are, too many Federal regulations lay unreformed and the trade deficit is worrisome.

In fact, the Reagan expansion may not have been the best economic expansion in history, for every economic expansion must be judged by many criteria. But if we look at the sheer size and immensity of it, at its scope and power, then it cannot be denied that it was the greatest.

The full impact of the powerful economic recovery that President Reagan launched during the 1980s is still unfolding.

Mr. Reagan's expansion provided the financial resources to allow the U.S. to build up the combat capability of its defense forces and to begin blazing the new trail for a protective missile system. This, in turn, convinced the Soviet rulers they could never defeat the U.S., and today the Soviet Union and the U.S. are busily engaged in nuclear disarmament as peace breaks out in country after country throughout the world.

Equally important, it proved beyond doubt to all (except perhaps for a handful of left-wing faculty members in our best universities) that capitalism is superior to Socialism and Communism. Our economy is the guiding beacon for all those countries that are ripping apart the ruthless collectivist regimes that ruined the lives of their people for so long.

One thing the Marxists got right: Economics is a powerful determining factor of history. But Marxists never dreamed it would be the economics of Ronald Reagan and all those capitalists that would prevail in the end.

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Jul 11, 2019 17:41:36   #
Rose42 (a regular here)
 
Barracuda2020 wrote:
That sideline resolves nothing, no both sides do not operate the same way when it comes to the budget and the deficit. The numbers along with administrations easily prove that.


They operate differently and still waste billions while each side complains about the other and each side believes their argument is better.

Whatever. Fine them if they can't get it done.

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Jul 11, 2019 17:48:05   #
woodguru (a regular here)
 
Rose42 wrote:
Both sides play their games and both sides waste billions.

I'd like to see all elected officials fined if they can't balance the budget including the president.


Obama reduced the Bush deficit he took over by $900 Billion from the $1.4 Trillion it was at, and what does the GOP do but ram an ill conceived tax cut for the wealthy through and start increasing the deficit right out the gate. And it's done in such a way that it goes up every year higher than the last year.

When there is a deficit of $500 Billion is not the time to cut taxes for the wealthy and increase spending as well.

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Jul 11, 2019 17:53:47   #
Rose42 (a regular here)
 
woodguru wrote:
Obama reduced the Bush deficit he took over by $900 Billion from the $1.4 Trillion it was at, and what does the GOP do but ram an ill conceived tax cut for the wealthy through and start increasing the deficit right out the gate. And it's done in such a way that it goes up every year higher than the last year.

When there is a deficit of $500 Billion is not the time to cut taxes for the wealthy and increase spending as well.


Obama ramped up the debt much further than Bush did. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Neither side will face the failures of their respective parties.

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Jul 11, 2019 17:56:54   #
working class stiff
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
New York Times archive: The Reagan Boom - Greatest Ever

Almost everyone knows that the greatest depression the U.S. ever had was in the 1930's. It was known as the Great Depression, and its infamy merits a separate section in economics textbooks. But what was its counterpart? When did our greatest economic expansion occur?

We just had it. And it is still expanding, setting new records with each passing month.

We don't know whether historians will call it the Great Expansion of the 1980's or Reagan's Great Expansion, but we do know from official economic statistics that the seven year period from 1982 to 1989 was the greatest, consistent burst of economic activity ever seen in the U.S. In fact, it was the greatest economic expansion the world has ever seen - in any country, at any time.

The two key measures that mark a depression or expansion are jobs and production. Let's look at the records that were set. Creation of jobs. From November 1982, when President Ronald Reagan's new economic program was beginning to take effect, to November 1989, 18.7 million new jobs were created. It was a world record: Never before had so many jobs been created during a comparable time period. The new jobs covered the entire spectrum of work, and more than half of them paid more than $20,000 a year. As total employment grew to 119.5 million, the rate of unemployment fell to slightly over 5 percent, the lowest level in 15 years. Creation of wealth.

The amount of wealth produced during this seven year period was stupendous - some $30 trillion worth of goods and services. Again, it was a world record. Never before had so much wealth been produced during a comparable period. According to a recent study, net asset values - including stocks, bonds and real estate - went up by more than $5 trillion between 1982 and 1989, an increase of roughly 50 percent.

There are other important measures. Steady economic growth. As we begin the decade of the 1990's, we are in our 86th straight month of economic growth - a new record for peacetime, five months longer than the wartime growth of World War II and only 23 months short of the wartime record set during the Vietnam War in the 1960's. Most experts now predict that it will last right through 1990, and perhaps beyond.
Continue reading the main story

Income tax rates, interest rates and inflation.

Under President Reagan, top personal income tax rates were lowered dramatically, from 70 percent to 28 percent. This policy change was the prime force behind the record breaking economic expansion. Interest rates and inflation also fell sharply and, so far, have stayed comfortably low - a further indication of the power and pervasiveness of Mr. Reagan's economic policies. The stock market. Perhaps the key indicator of an economy's booms and busts is the stock market, the bottom line economic report card. And here the record has been striking. During the period from 1970 to 1982, the stock market barely moved. The Standard & Poor's index of 500 stocks inched up about 35 percent during that entire period. But starting in late 1982, just as Reaganomics began to work, the stock market took off like a giant skyrocket. Since then, the Standard & Poor's index has soared, reaching a record high of 360, almost triple what it was in 1982.

There were other consequences of the expansion. Annual Federal spending on public housing and welfare, and on Social Security, Medicare and health all increased by billions of dollars. The poverty rate has fallen steadily since 1983.

When you add up the record of the Reagan years, and the first year of President Bush - during which he has faithfully continued Mr. Reagan's economic policies - the conclusion is clear, inescapable and stunning. We have just witnessed America's Great Expansion.

The Reagan economic expansion was not perfect and we will never have one that is. The Federal budget deficits were too high and still are, too many Federal regulations lay unreformed and the trade deficit is worrisome.

In fact, the Reagan expansion may not have been the best economic expansion in history, for every economic expansion must be judged by many criteria. But if we look at the sheer size and immensity of it, at its scope and power, then it cannot be denied that it was the greatest.

The full impact of the powerful economic recovery that President Reagan launched during the 1980s is still unfolding.

Mr. Reagan's expansion provided the financial resources to allow the U.S. to build up the combat capability of its defense forces and to begin blazing the new trail for a protective missile system. This, in turn, convinced the Soviet rulers they could never defeat the U.S., and today the Soviet Union and the U.S. are busily engaged in nuclear disarmament as peace breaks out in country after country throughout the world.

Equally important, it proved beyond doubt to all (except perhaps for a handful of left-wing faculty members in our best universities) that capitalism is superior to Socialism and Communism. Our economy is the guiding beacon for all those countries that are ripping apart the ruthless collectivist regimes that ruined the lives of their people for so long.

One thing the Marxists got right: Economics is a powerful determining factor of history. But Marxists never dreamed it would be the economics of Ronald Reagan and all those capitalists that would prevail in the end.
b New York Times archive: The Reagan Boom - Great... (show quote)
\



Yeah the Reagan years were great for the well off....not so much for most American workers.

https://www.insidesources.com/reagan-tax-cuts-failure-workers/

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

And things aren't improving for workers now.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickwwatson/2018/09/25/real-wage-growth-is-actually-falling/#1cd3ca0e7284

But it was a nice deflection away from the topic: why don't Republicans care about this huge deficit during a 'hot economy'?

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Jul 11, 2019 18:55:33   #
woodguru (a regular here)
 
Rose42 wrote:
They operate differently and still waste billions while each side complains about the other and each side believes their argument is better.

Whatever. Fine them if they can't get it done.


Faulty reality right there, Obama reduced the deficit throughout his terms except for a couple of years, taking it down from $1.4 Trillion to $500 Billion is nothing to sneeze at, and all Trump had to do to maintain was refuse to do the GOP tax cuts.

It is extremely safe and accurate to say that republicans grow the deficit and dems shrink or reduce it...

it grew under
Reagan
Bush Senior?
Bush Junior
Trump

and shrunk under
Clinton
Obama

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Jul 11, 2019 19:01:44   #
Rose42 (a regular here)
 
woodguru wrote:
Faulty reality right there, Obama reduced the deficit throughout his terms except for a couple of years, taking it down from $1.4 Trillion to $500 Billion is nothing to sneeze at, and all Trump had to do to maintain was refuse to do the GOP tax cuts.

It is extremely safe and accurate to say that republicans grow the deficit and dems shrink or reduce it...

it grew under
Reagan
Bush Senior?
Bush Junior
Trump

and shrunk under
Clinton
Obama


I said debt not deficit but thank you for proving my point once again.

| Reply
Jul 11, 2019 19:22:54   #
woodguru (a regular here)
 
Rose42 wrote:
Obama ramped up the debt much further than Bush did. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Neither side will face the failures of their respective parties.


Debt is the result of a deficit, it is ignorant to say that a $1.4 Trillion deficit inherited by a new president can be saddled to the resulting debt accrual...

It would be far safer to say, especially in light of the budget surplus Bush took over from Clinton, that the continuing debt accrued during the next administration is a further legacy of the president that created and left the budget deficit.

Obama reduced the deficit he inherited by 2/3rds, he did not create any additional debt.

While Bush is the reigning deficit builder of all time, the huge deficit he left made Obama a debt ceiling leader, it's important to understand the difference, because Trump is headed toward going back to Trillion dollar deficits.

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Jul 11, 2019 19:25:48   #
woodguru (a regular here)
 
Rose42 wrote:
I said debt not deficit but thank you for proving my point once again.


Get your debt and deficits straight, there is an irrelevance to debt created by deficits a president did not create.

Here's a true statement, Trump is already increasing debt at a higher rate per year than Obama did. Obama reduced the rate at which debt was accruing, Trump is increasing it through unnecessary tax cuts.

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