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Move to Nullify the E*******l College
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May 22, 2019 18:51:01   #
confused one
 
proud republican wrote:
Why rewrite Constitution just because hillary lost???Would you feel the same if she would of won and President Trump lost???..What if President would of said we need to do away EC,what would you say then???.....You people need to realize that President T***p w*n because he was a better candidate then she was,because people v**ed for him and not for her..Its time to stop her whining and go back to the woods or where ever she came from!!!
Why rewrite Constitution just because hillary lost... (show quote)


I never mentioned Hillary or President Trump. Personally, I see Democrats cheering for open borders because in their minds that's forever going to change the demographics that will keep them in power. It's a shortsighted vision easily derailed by the emergence of a multiparty system. We might be watching the death of the Democrat Party as we've known it today. The ree******n of President Trump might be the final straw.

Reply
May 23, 2019 05:48:36   #
crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island
 
dtucker300 wrote:
This is getting serious. There is a civil war raging in the USA in case you have not noticed. Everything except shooting between combatants has begun.


https://www.dailywire.com/news/47520/nevada-passes-bill-give-e*******l-v**es-national-james-barrett?utm_source=shapironewsletter-ae&utm_medium=email&utm_content=052219-news&utm_campaign=shapiroemail


Nevada Passes Bill To Give E*******l V**es To National Popular V**e Winner
Democratic p**********l candidate Hillary Clinton arrives onstage during a primary night rally at the Duggal Greenhouse in the Brooklyn Navy Yard, June 7, 2016 in the Brooklyn borough of New York City. Drew Angerer/Getty Images



By JAMES BARRETT
May 22, 2019
If Nevada's Democratic governor signs a bill passed by the state senate Tuesday into law, his state will have moved the National Popular V**e movement six v**es closer to effectively nullifying the E*******l College as established in the U.S. Constitution.


By a v**e of 12-8, the Nevada Senate passed AB 186 on Tuesday, which if signed by Gov. Steve Sisolak, will add Nevada's six e*******l v**es to the 189 v**es already pledged by 14 other states in the National Popular V**e Interstate Compact, which would "guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular v**es across all 50 states and the District of Columbia." If triggered, the pact would override the majority decision of v**ers in particular states.

Thus far, 14 states and one district have officially passed the measure, their collective e*******l v**e total currently at 189. The compact requires a minimum of 270 total pledged e*******l v**es to go into effect. Should Sisolak sign the bill, the total would edge up to 195 v**es.

The 15 jurisdictions, which are predominantly blue, that have signed on thus far are: California (55), Colorado (9), Connecticut (7), Delaware (3), the District of Columbia (3), Hawaii (4), Illinois (20), Massachusetts (11), Maryland (10), New Jersey (14), New Mexico (5), New York (29), Rhode Island (4), Vermont (3), and Washington (12).

"The bill has passed one house in 9 additional states with 82 e*******l v**es (AR, AZ, ME, MI, MN, NC, NV, OK, OR), including a 40–16 v**e in the Republican-controlled Arizona House and a 28–18 in Republican-controlled Oklahoma Senate, and been approved unanimously by committee v**es in two additional Republican-controlled states with 26 e*******l v**es (GA, MO)," the National Popular V**e website explains.

As CNN underscores suggestively, the E*******l College "clinched President Donald Trump the 2016 p**********l victory despite Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton winning a popular-v**e majority by nearly 3 million v**es." Among the high-profile Democrats pushing for the elimination of the E*******l College are p**********l candidates, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (MA), Sen. Kamala Harris (CA), and former Rep. Beto O'Rourke (TX), CNN notes.

Including Trump's victory over Clinton, there have been a total of "five instances where a p**********l candidate has been elected without winning the popular v**e since the E*******l College was created in 1787," The Hill reports.

In a video for PragerU (below), E*******l College expert Tara Ross explains the rationale behind the current U.S. p**********l v****g system and summarizes some of the arguments against the National Popular V**e agreement, including the impact of states' widely varying v****g policies, the exponentially increased threat of v***r f***d, and the encouragement of p**********l candidates neglecting the needs and concerns of rural areas and smaller states.

"If NPV is adopted, and winning is only about getting the most v**es, a candidate might concentrate all of his efforts in the biggest cities, or the biggest states," she argues. "We could see the end of p**********l candidates who care about the needs and concerns of people in smaller states or outside of big cities."



Video and partial transcript below via PragerU:


In every p**********l e******n, only one question matters: which candidate will get the 270 v**es needed to win the E*******l College? Our Founders so deeply feared a tyranny of the majority that they rejected the idea of a direct v**e for President. That's why they created the E*******l College. For more than two centuries it has encouraged coalition building, given a voice to both big and small states, and discouraged v***r f***d.

Unfortunately, there is now a well-financed, below-the-radar effort to do away with the E*******l College. It is called National Popular V**e or NPV, and it wants to do exactly what the Founders rejected: award the job of President to the person who gets the most v**es nationally.

Even if you agree with this goal, it's hard to agree with their method. Rather than amend the Constitution, which they have no chance of doing, NPV plans an end run around it.

Here's what NPV does: it asks states to sign a contract to give their p**********l e*****rs to the winner of the national popular v**e instead of the winner of the state's popular v**e.

What does that mean in practice? It means that if NPV had been in place in 2004, for example, when George W. Bush won the national v**e, California's e*******l v**es would have gone to Bush, even though John Kerry won that state by 1.2 million v**es! Can you imagine strongly Democratic California calmly awarding its e*****rs to a Republican?

Another problem with NPV's plan is that it robs states of their sovereignty. A key benefit of the E*******l College system is that it decentralizes control over the e******n. Currently, a p**********l e******n is really 51 separate e******ns: one in each state and one in D.C.

These 51 separate processes exist, side-by-side, in harmony. They do not -- and cannot -- interfere with each other. California's e******n code applies only to California and determines that state's e*****rs. So a v**e cast in Texas can never change the identity of a California e*****r.

NPV would disrupt this careful balance. It would force all v**ers into one national e******n pool. Thus, a v**e cast in Texas will always affect the outcome in California. And the existence of a different e******n code in Texas always has the potential to unfairly affect a v**er in California.

Why? Because state e******n codes can differ drastically. States have different rules about early v****g, registering to v**e, and qualifying for the b****t. They have different policies regarding felon v****g. They have different triggers for recounts.

Each and every one of these differences is an opportunity for someone, somewhere to file a lawsuit claiming unfair treatment. Why should a v**er in New York get more or less time to early v**e than a v**er in Florida? Why should a h*****g chad count in Florida, but not in Ohio? The list of possible complaints is endless.

And think of the opportunities for v***r f***d if NPV is passed! Currently, an attempt to steal a p**********l e******n requires phony b****ts to appear or real b****ts to disappear in the right state or combination of states, something that is very hard to anticipate. But with NPV, v***r f***d anywhere can change the e******n results -- no need to figure out which states you must swing; just add or subtract the v**es you need -- or don't want -- wherever you can most easily get away with it.

And finally, if NPV is adopted, and winning is only about getting the most v**es, a candidate might concentrate all of his efforts in the biggest cities, or the biggest states. We could see the end of p**********l candidates who care about the needs and concerns of people in smaller states or outside of big cities.
This is getting serious. There is a civil war rag... (show quote)



Actually, it is entirely constitutional for any state to allocate its e*******l v**es in any way it decides. There is no requirement to even have an e******n. As a born New Yorker and former Rhode Islander, I can unequivocally assert that they are among the most c*******t of the the states from top to bottom.

Reply
May 23, 2019 09:08:55   #
Smedley_buzkill
 
Kevyn wrote:
Everyone’s v**e will count the same as they should. As it is people in low population states have significantly more representation than those in larger states. A resident in Wyoming has two senators representing only a bit over a half million people while those in California have two senators for almost forty million. This gives Wyoming v**ers proportionally 80 times more representation in the senate than Californians.


Actually, Trump was ahead in the popular v**e also until the California returns came in. Hillary's approximately 3 million v**e margin in the popular v**e was directly due to California. It was still not enough to overcome Trump's vast e*******l lead, in spite of the 54 California v**es going to Hillary.
So you are contending that we should let the v**ers in the flakiest state in the Union decide on a president for the entire country.
I almost wish it would happen, so I could watch you and people like you squirm when you had to live in the mess you have championed for so long. It would almost be worth it.

Reply
 
 
May 23, 2019 09:40:27   #
johnsorrell7
 
Is this legal. Is it not a constitution violation???
Anybody???

Reply
May 23, 2019 09:56:54   #
okie don
 
Who should rule?
The unqualified majority or qualified minority?

Reply
May 23, 2019 10:22:05   #
johnsorrell7
 
The v***r f***d will k**l the conservative v**e. Ther are States today advocating hi wing the illegal the legal right to v**e. We cannot won against these odds.
Something must’ve done to protect the American v**e.

Reply
May 23, 2019 10:52:50   #
Hug
 
woodguru wrote:
The reason the e*******l college was implemented has no valid reason today...

One person one v**e


It is more valid today than it has ever been. Surely the majority of citizens do not want the folks running around pooping on the street running our country.

Reply
 
 
May 23, 2019 11:33:47   #
johnsorrell7
 
California, more than the other states, is the worrisome problem. Do we have any idea how many i******s California will encourage to v**e in the 2020 federal e******n? They alone could make the difference on winning and us losing.
Why do we think the democrats are so against photo id’s to be allowed to v**e? This alone is a real worry.
Am I the only one concerned here???

Reply
May 23, 2019 11:35:21   #
Smedley_buzkill
 
Hug wrote:
It is more valid today than it has ever been. Surely the majority of citizens do not want the folks running around pooping on the street running our country.

Abolition of the E*******l College requires a Constitutional Amendment.

Reply
May 23, 2019 12:04:20   #
TrueAmerican
 
Kevyn wrote:
Oh the horror, it will be the end of the world if each Americans v**e was counted equally.


Ignorant people make ignorant, moronic, stupid and assinine comments !!!!!!

Reply
May 23, 2019 12:13:36   #
woodguru
 
It's just a matter of time, the US is the only democratic nation in the world that doesn't have a straight popular v**e.

Reply
 
 
May 23, 2019 12:35:17   #
America 1 Loc: South Miami
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
Actually, it is entirely constitutional for any state to allocate its e*******l v**es in any way it decides. There is no requirement to even have an e******n. As a born New Yorker and former Rhode Islander, I can unequivocally assert that they are among the most c*******t of the the states from top to bottom.


The E*****rs shall meet in their respective states, and v**e by b****t for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their b****ts the person v**ed for as President, and in distinct b****ts the person v**ed for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons v**ed for as President, and of all persons v**ed for as Vice-President and of the number of v**es for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and t***smit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;



Amendment 12 - Choosing the President, Vice-President
The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the v**es shall then be counted;

The person having the greatest Number of v**es for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of E*****rs appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those v**ed for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by b****t, the President.
https://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am12.html

Reply
May 23, 2019 13:14:30   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
woodguru wrote:
It's just a matter of time, the US is the only democratic nation in the world that doesn't have a straight popular v**e.


Yes, it's called American exceptionalism because we have not relinquished our sensibilities to mass passions no matter how misguided they may be. It also why we are not as flaky as so many other nations.

CA wants to let 16 year-olds v**e in local e******ns. Remember John Walker Lindh, who was a teenager when he succumbed to the brainwashing of Al Queda and went to join the jihad against the USA. They don't have the mental or intellectual maturity to be an informed v**er.


https://www.dailywire.com/news/47565/hammer-e*******l-college-under-assault-heres-why-josh-hammer?utm_source=cnemail&utm_medium=email&utm_content=052319-news&utm_campaign=position5

HAMMER: The E*******l College Is Under Assault. Here’s Why It’s Worth Saving.
James Benet via Getty Images



By JOSH HAMMER
@JOSH_HAMMER
May 22, 2019
It has never been clearer that the E*******l College is under systemic assault.

It has become de rigueur for 2020 Democratic p**********l candidates to casually excoriate the institution in no uncertain terms, and oftentimes vow to eliminate it via constitutional amendment. Furthermore, as The Daily Wire reported this morning, Nevada is the latest state to pass a bill that adds the Silver State to the National Popular V**e Interstate Compact (NPV), which, if upheld as constitutional after 270 E*******l College v**es' worth of states join, would guarantee the presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular v**es across all 50 states and the District of Columbia. As I explained last month, the NPV project is largely funded and promoted by partisan Democratic activists, including a California-based computer scientist named John Koza.

The constitutionality of NPV is debatable. Such a backdoor route toward the abolition of a core constitutional structural provision would indubitably violate the Framers' intent, but the question from a purely textualist perspective is murkier. After all, Article II, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Constitution seems to provide that state legislatures have plenary power over allocation of their states' e*****rs: "Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of e*****rs, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress." As long as NPV amounts to a purely voluntary and non-binding compact for each state that joins, constitutionalists would be severely misguided to rely on our black-robed judicial overlords to save We the People from our own self-inflicted follies.

But NPV ought to be countered on a state-by-state basis, because the E*******l College is an important institution worthy of protection and preservation.

Alexander Hamilton most expressly defended the E*******l College in The Federalist No. 68. The E*******l College, Hamilton argued, "affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications." Specifically, Hamilton added that "it will require other talents, and a different kind of merit, to establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union."

More generally, the Constitution's Framers envisioned the E*******l College as one of their many structural securities against majoritarian tyranny — what James Madison described in The Federalist No. 10 as the problem of "faction":

By a faction, I understand a number of citizens, whether amounting to a majority or a minority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adversed to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community.

There are two methods of curing the mischiefs of faction: the one, by removing its causes; the other, by controlling its effects.

The E*******l College, in attempting to ensure that smaller, more rural states would not be politically overrun by parochial urban interests, was one means by which the Framers sought to "control[ the] effects" of faction. Other examples of counter-majoritarian protections abound, and are woven into our constitutional structure: A bicameral legislature at the national level, a senior legislative chamber whose (pre-17th Amendment) state representative nature was intended as a deliberative counterweight to the more populist proclivities of the people's more junior legislative chamber, a tripartite separation of powers framework borrowed from the French political theorist Montesquieu, and the uniquely American political innovation of a federalist system of genuine dual sovereignty.

The Daily Wire's own Michael Knowles explained it well on his show in March:

[The E*******l College] has a few purposes. One, it's to restrain pure democracy. Very good, very important, that's a wonderful thing. What is another purpose of the e*******l college? It doesn't just restrain democracy — let's say all of the American people v**ed for super-duper mecha-Hitler or they elected Stalin Jr. to be president, the E*******l College could then come out and say nope, sorry we are going to disagree with the American people and we're going to elect a good candidate, so there's that aspect. ... The people participate in v**es in their states to choose e*****rs to elect the president, but the people don't elect the president. We are not a democracy; we are a democratic republic. We have a representation system of government.

Rebelling as they did from the tyranny of Britain's King George III, the Framers were doubtlessly petrified at the prospect of monarchy — and all the unpredictability, impulsivity, and tyrannical threats to individual liberty that rule by one necessarily entails. At the same time, the Framers also feared the wrath of unchecked ochlocracy — the equally petrifying tyranny of mob rule, which is best encapsulated by a plebiscite such as that which NPV aspires to be. Constitutional structural provisions such as the E*******l College and the Senate are not bugs, but features, of the Framers' genius in securing the people against their own zealous caprices. As Jonah Goldberg succinctly put it, the Framers understood that "democracy depends on some undemocratic mechanisms to maintain liberty."

At its core, the NPV movement lacks this fundamental, key insight into human nature.

"If men were angels, no government would be necessary," Madison mused in The Federalist No. 51. But men are not angels. And because men are not angels, structural constitutional provisions are necessary to chasten the whims of the frothing mob. The E*******l College is one such constitutional mechanism and, as such, it is worth preserving.

Reply
May 23, 2019 13:22:10   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
okie don wrote:
Who should rule?
The unqualified majority or qualified minority?


That's the problem with L*****ts. They think they should be the ruling elite minority while everyone else is a Plebian. They are just like the pigs in Animal Farm.

Reply
May 23, 2019 14:17:52   #
badbob85037
 
dtucker300 wrote:
This is getting serious. There is a civil war raging in the USA in case you have not noticed. Everything except shooting between combatants has begun.


https://www.dailywire.com/news/47520/nevada-passes-bill-give-e*******l-v**es-national-james-barrett?utm_source=shapironewsletter-ae&utm_medium=email&utm_content=052219-news&utm_campaign=shapiroemail


Nevada Passes Bill To Give E*******l V**es To National Popular V**e Winner
Democratic p**********l candidate Hillary Clinton arrives onstage during a primary night rally at the Duggal Greenhouse in the Brooklyn Navy Yard, June 7, 2016 in the Brooklyn borough of New York City. Drew Angerer/Getty Images



By JAMES BARRETT
May 22, 2019
If Nevada's Democratic governor signs a bill passed by the state senate Tuesday into law, his state will have moved the National Popular V**e movement six v**es closer to effectively nullifying the E*******l College as established in the U.S. Constitution.


By a v**e of 12-8, the Nevada Senate passed AB 186 on Tuesday, which if signed by Gov. Steve Sisolak, will add Nevada's six e*******l v**es to the 189 v**es already pledged by 14 other states in the National Popular V**e Interstate Compact, which would "guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular v**es across all 50 states and the District of Columbia." If triggered, the pact would override the majority decision of v**ers in particular states.

Thus far, 14 states and one district have officially passed the measure, their collective e*******l v**e total currently at 189. The compact requires a minimum of 270 total pledged e*******l v**es to go into effect. Should Sisolak sign the bill, the total would edge up to 195 v**es.

The 15 jurisdictions, which are predominantly blue, that have signed on thus far are: California (55), Colorado (9), Connecticut (7), Delaware (3), the District of Columbia (3), Hawaii (4), Illinois (20), Massachusetts (11), Maryland (10), New Jersey (14), New Mexico (5), New York (29), Rhode Island (4), Vermont (3), and Washington (12).

"The bill has passed one house in 9 additional states with 82 e*******l v**es (AR, AZ, ME, MI, MN, NC, NV, OK, OR), including a 40–16 v**e in the Republican-controlled Arizona House and a 28–18 in Republican-controlled Oklahoma Senate, and been approved unanimously by committee v**es in two additional Republican-controlled states with 26 e*******l v**es (GA, MO)," the National Popular V**e website explains.

As CNN underscores suggestively, the E*******l College "clinched President Donald Trump the 2016 p**********l victory despite Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton winning a popular-v**e majority by nearly 3 million v**es." Among the high-profile Democrats pushing for the elimination of the E*******l College are p**********l candidates, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (MA), Sen. Kamala Harris (CA), and former Rep. Beto O'Rourke (TX), CNN notes.

Including Trump's victory over Clinton, there have been a total of "five instances where a p**********l candidate has been elected without winning the popular v**e since the E*******l College was created in 1787," The Hill reports.

In a video for PragerU (below), E*******l College expert Tara Ross explains the rationale behind the current U.S. p**********l v****g system and summarizes some of the arguments against the National Popular V**e agreement, including the impact of states' widely varying v****g policies, the exponentially increased threat of v***r f***d, and the encouragement of p**********l candidates neglecting the needs and concerns of rural areas and smaller states.

"If NPV is adopted, and winning is only about getting the most v**es, a candidate might concentrate all of his efforts in the biggest cities, or the biggest states," she argues. "We could see the end of p**********l candidates who care about the needs and concerns of people in smaller states or outside of big cities."



Video and partial transcript below via PragerU:


In every p**********l e******n, only one question matters: which candidate will get the 270 v**es needed to win the E*******l College? Our Founders so deeply feared a tyranny of the majority that they rejected the idea of a direct v**e for President. That's why they created the E*******l College. For more than two centuries it has encouraged coalition building, given a voice to both big and small states, and discouraged v***r f***d.

Unfortunately, there is now a well-financed, below-the-radar effort to do away with the E*******l College. It is called National Popular V**e or NPV, and it wants to do exactly what the Founders rejected: award the job of President to the person who gets the most v**es nationally.

Even if you agree with this goal, it's hard to agree with their method. Rather than amend the Constitution, which they have no chance of doing, NPV plans an end run around it.

Here's what NPV does: it asks states to sign a contract to give their p**********l e*****rs to the winner of the national popular v**e instead of the winner of the state's popular v**e.

What does that mean in practice? It means that if NPV had been in place in 2004, for example, when George W. Bush won the national v**e, California's e*******l v**es would have gone to Bush, even though John Kerry won that state by 1.2 million v**es! Can you imagine strongly Democratic California calmly awarding its e*****rs to a Republican?

Another problem with NPV's plan is that it robs states of their sovereignty. A key benefit of the E*******l College system is that it decentralizes control over the e******n. Currently, a p**********l e******n is really 51 separate e******ns: one in each state and one in D.C.

These 51 separate processes exist, side-by-side, in harmony. They do not -- and cannot -- interfere with each other. California's e******n code applies only to California and determines that state's e*****rs. So a v**e cast in Texas can never change the identity of a California e*****r.

NPV would disrupt this careful balance. It would force all v**ers into one national e******n pool. Thus, a v**e cast in Texas will always affect the outcome in California. And the existence of a different e******n code in Texas always has the potential to unfairly affect a v**er in California.

Why? Because state e******n codes can differ drastically. States have different rules about early v****g, registering to v**e, and qualifying for the b****t. They have different policies regarding felon v****g. They have different triggers for recounts.

Each and every one of these differences is an opportunity for someone, somewhere to file a lawsuit claiming unfair treatment. Why should a v**er in New York get more or less time to early v**e than a v**er in Florida? Why should a h*****g chad count in Florida, but not in Ohio? The list of possible complaints is endless.

And think of the opportunities for v***r f***d if NPV is passed! Currently, an attempt to steal a p**********l e******n requires phony b****ts to appear or real b****ts to disappear in the right state or combination of states, something that is very hard to anticipate. But with NPV, v***r f***d anywhere can change the e******n results -- no need to figure out which states you must swing; just add or subtract the v**es you need -- or don't want -- wherever you can most easily get away with it.

And finally, if NPV is adopted, and winning is only about getting the most v**es, a candidate might concentrate all of his efforts in the biggest cities, or the biggest states. We could see the end of p**********l candidates who care about the needs and concerns of people in smaller states or outside of big cities.
This is getting serious. There is a civil war rag... (show quote)


Cause that's what they do and will continue to do so until they win and destroy the Constitution or we gather these people up and relocate them 200 miles West of San Francisco allowing them to only take their chains and lead weights with them.

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