whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon

If the spirit is eternal, does this correlate to the Buddhist concept of karma and reincarnation? It seems that your statement implies this ... just curious.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

You might have, I'm between patients and not paying full attention. I would point out that the heart can continue in many people even after the brain is dead, with zero brain activity. But yes, with out the heart, it all dies, but without the brain life can continue even if the individual is actually gone.

susanblange Loc: USA

If there is an incarnation (of God), there can also be reincarnation. People who go to Heaven and become Angels have a choice to live again on earth and to be reincarnated. There are two that have been kicked out of Heaven and reincarnated. They are Adam (Satan), and Jesus (Lucifer) who was Satan's counterfeit messiah. Lucifer means "morning star" and that is who Jesus claims to be. Revelation 22:16. Reincarnation is a fact and there is some T***h in all religions. I practice and eclectic mix.

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

This is a contradiction

You say: The Hebrew word for spirit is ruach, and it means "breath"" (inside the body), and "wind" (outside the body).

Then you say: We do not have a spirit until we are born and take that first breath.

Babies do not breath in the womb until almost the end of the pregnancy.. They are supplied oxygen through the umbilical cord..

Please excuse my ignorance over this comment: Miscarried, stillborn, and aborted babies do not go to Heaven or Hell because they have no spirit.[/quote]

Must respectfully disagree, from God this soul and spirit came and when that soul/spirit leaves it returns to God..Not simply discarded as though it was never a Being... If the spirit Is immortal where does it go if not back to God??

susanblange Loc: USA

I think you're confusing the soul and the spirit. Most people do. Babies in the womb are a soul (body) but they do not have a spirit. I don't think babies breathe until they are born. Oxygen is the "life force".

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

So, you have accepted the instincts of a two year old as a definition of who we are.

"Being" can simply mean 'to exist", or it can mean the nature or essence of a person, such as soul, spirit, inner self.

The brain, the heart, all vital organs, muscles, skeleton, and skin all function in concert. K**l the brain, the heart stops beating, k**l the heart the brain dies, and all other elements of physical existence die with them.

If you are going to define what is "being" from a purely humanist POV, then a being can be anything you want it to be and you can put any value on it that suits your fancy.

Humanism cannot answer the four fundamental questions that have plagued mankind from the beginning--Origin, Meaning, Morality, and Destiny. Even the great secular philosophers failed to fully answer those questions.

If we are nothing more than time plus matter plus chance, nothing more than chemistry and physics in motion, then we have no intrinsic worth. Our worth as human BEINGS is then determined by the state or an extrinsic philosophy.

susanblange Loc: USA

A baby is a part of the mother's body until it is born and the umbilical cord is cut. If it is not viable outside of the mother's body, then it will not survive. The soul is not alive until the baby is breathing. Genesis 2:7. "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul".

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

Thanks man. I bring it up because I don't like the heart beat bill. I'm pro-life but I do respect when extreme circumstances occur that there could be good reason for an a******n for the health and well being of the mother, especially rape and incest. The child a rape victim is forced to carry will have the eyes of her attacker and the mother will be forced to see that every time see looks at her child; a definite mental health issue! I truly object to the in-discriminant use of a******n as birth control for people who should be responsible, especially those who repeatedly do it.

That being said, I simply got to thinking that a heart beat doesn't define a person or being. True, with out the heart beat there is no life and without life there can be no being. No issues with that. But I do think that being, as you say a subjective thing, is what we need to consider as where the line is drawn. Being subjective, it needs to be discussed to a much greater degree.

Thus, I don't hold with a zygote being a human. Those who take it to such extremes such as objecting to the use of the morning after pill, which doesn't stop fertillization but prevents implantation, are simply too extreme and have their beliefs based in to much religious self-righteousness.

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

My daughter is just an example of what we know instinctively, outside of the influences of religious teachings. I would point out that the brain can di and in many cased the heart continues to beat.

I don't know what humanism is, but I do, for myself, define being as a "who I am" thing, not just existing.

I also disagree with your "intrinsic worth" statement. Our effects upon others can define our worth, God or no God. I would ask, if we are made by God, how does that enhance our intrinsic worth??

My concern here is the effect of what I view as a draconian law in Alabama which doesn't allow for a******n even in the case of rape or incest. If my daughter was raped and pregnant and wanted to make sure she didn't have to have that baby, I would choose her over any fetus and the laws of any land, no matter what.

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Like other recently-enacted a******n bills passed in Georgia, Ohio, Kentucky, Mississippi and elsewhere, the Alabama legislation will almost certainly be blocked by the lower courts because it runs counter to the 1973 Supreme Court Roe v Wade a******n rights ruling. And that’s the point. Anti-a******n state legislatures and governors want the Supreme Court’s new conservative majority to overturn, or at least significantly curtail, the a******n protections enshrined in Roe....

Im pro choice for the very reasons you give, not to use as a birth control..Never have nor will I support infantile genocide of full term babies!! Murder!!!!

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Ok thank you...

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

Oh absolutely, same here!

maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee

God gives us freedom to choose what path we want to follow, so lets look at the reasons for all those 25% miscarriages...drugs would be #1. Poor prenatal care due to drugs #2. STD's contracted while engaging in prostitution due to #2 and #1. How the mother (and father) give care for the unborn baby makes all the difference in the world.
Jesus said you will not see the kingdom of God unless you become as a small child. Does that not tell you that aborted babies, murdered babies, abused babies DO see the kingdom of God?

son of witless

Excellent point, we are what we are at the time we. Okayyyyy. When we are first born and up to 6 months, we are an eating, crying, urinating, defecating, unintelligent, needy parasite. We do not seem to fit your definition of a being. So why is it a crime to k**l us ? We are not much more than when we were a fetus. Back then we had a price on our brainless heads.

maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee

For anyone who's interested, check out 5 things a baby can do while still in the womb.

https://www.lifenews.com/2015/04/21/5-amazing-things-unborn-babies-can-do-in-the-womb/

This page helped me to realize that the time spent in the womb, is the baby getting ready to be born. It hears language and music, it remembers, it makes gestures, AND it dreams. Can any baby survive after birth with out cleaning, warming, care, and feeding? Nope. The mother supplies the baby with O2, blood, and nutrition until birth, and still requires round the clock care to make it.
No one has mentioned premature babies. Should they be left to die because they can't "make it" on their own?
Lay a dead body alongside a living body. What's the difference? They look the same, have the same organs, don't they? So, the only difference in the two is "life". So, define "life". I don't believe you can. Even when you are dead, your hair and nails still grow!. Since we can't define "life", how do we know when it starts? The egg and the sperm are both alive, are they not? If dead, there would be no baby. Life is life. We do everything in our power to keep an injured person alive, so why is it OK to k**l a baby?