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At what point are we "beings?"
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May 24, 2019 20:11:22   #
susanblange Loc: USA
 
whitnebrat wrote:
I can't recall where I read it years ago, but an experiment was done on dying patients where they very accurately weighed the patient through the dying episode. At the moment of death, they detected a very slight loss of weight in the body, as if something had departed from the person. Like I said, it was years ago, and I can't recall the article. But I'm sure that one of our posters could find it.


E=mc2. The spirit, which is partly composed of energy, does have weight. The body (soul) also loses heat when it dies. Heat is a form of energy.

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May 25, 2019 06:58:52   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
The "21 grams" experiment was a failure. Basing his hypothesis on souls have weight, Duncan MacDougall, a Massachusetts physician conducted an experiment on six terminal patients in a nursing home.

One of the patients lost weight but then put the weight back on, and two of the other patients registered a loss of weight at death but a few minutes later lost even more weight. One of the patients lost "three-fourths of an ounce" (21.3 grams) in weight, coinciding with the time of death. MacDougall disregarded the results of another patient on the grounds the scales were "not finely adjusted", and discounted the results of another as the patient died while the equipment was still being calibrated. MacDougall reported that none of the dogs lost any weight after death.

While MacDougall believed that the results from his experiment showed the human soul might have weight, his report, which was not published until 1907, stated the experiment would have to be repeated many times before any conclusion could be obtained.
The "21 grams" experiment was a failure.... (show quote)


Thank You, Blade.. Whitney triggered it memory and you provided it in the facts..
Given the calibration issues at least he included that in his report saying more would be needed..inconclusive finding yet interesting..

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May 25, 2019 07:18:41   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
whitnebrat wrote:
Buddhist teachings are replete with the idea of reincarnation. Each Dalai Lama is reputed to be the reincarnated spirit of the previous one, and the Tibetan Buddhists go to great lengths to assess candidates as having knowledge of which only the previous Dalai Lama could have known or had. It isn't limited to the priestly class, either ... the whole idea of karma is that it may come to fruition in a future lifetime, not necessarily this one. Many similarities here.


Lol, I have also read what you recite here...Even that for some that Déjà vu experience we have or some have is that split second remembrance of another life..Also that the cycle of rebirth is because of Karma, ( putting forth~ reason) on why we return..Good or bad done in one life needing Karma t***sition in the next life etc..

How about the Hindu groups that do not believe in reincarnation but believe in an afterlife?? All very interesting if not compelling..

I remember a time of deep study and found the more I read the more confused I became with all the parallels enjoyed..

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May 25, 2019 07:38:50   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
Wouldn't it be very cool, though, if indeed, we got to review our live after we die, and decide to go back and work on something we need in ourselves, or to move forward to a greater realm?!! To, essentially, live another life from child to old man, never knowing that we actually chose that, and wondering about these very same things, even though we already had done that!!??


Yes, nwtk, it would be yet I can’t completely dismiss it doesn’t happen either.. I suspect we would have to be void of another life span so as not to repeat our t***sgressions yet having at least some carinal knowledge in why we chose to return..????

The idea that we return to learn or relearn something all for the reason of eventually reaching that euphoric divineness of heavenly t***sformation is enticing if not soothing to the soul/spirit..

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May 25, 2019 09:05:27   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
lindajoy wrote:
Yes, nwtk, it would be yet I can’t completely dismiss it doesn’t happen either.. I suspect we would have to be void of another life span so as not to repeat our t***sgressions yet having at least some carinal knowledge in why we chose to return..????

The idea that we return to learn or relearn something all for the reason of eventually reaching that euphoric divineness of heavenly t***sformation is enticing if not soothing to the soul/spirit..


It is! I like the way you put that. So much better a thought than the idea of just blinking out of existence.

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May 25, 2019 09:20:58   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
It is! I like the way you put that. So much better a thought than the idea of just blinking out of existence.


"the idea of just blinking out of existence."

Very well put, nwtk.

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May 25, 2019 09:22:50   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
In the post following this are actual laboratory photos of the burst of light that occurs at the moment of Human fertilization.

Unknown in the past, because the moment a human egg is fertilized has always taken place in the darkness of the mother's womb, there are now astounding laboratory taken pictures showing an inexplicable burst of light occurs at the moment of human conception.

"Let there be light."

"Let there be life."


nwtk2007 wrote:
When an egg if fertilized, is it a being? I asked my daughter when she was two, where is she. She instinctively pointed to her head. We are who our brains are, not our beating hearts.

At what point does a mass of neurons come together to make up a being? And don't say potential to be a "being" is being a "being." Every cell in our bodies has the potential to be a "being."

It's not about potential, it's about when we actually are.

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May 25, 2019 09:31:57   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Zemirah wrote:
Unknown in the past, because the moment a human egg is fertilized has always taken place in the darkness of the mother's womb, there are now astounding laboratory taken pictures showing an inexplicable burst of light occurs at the moment of human conception.

Unknown in the past, because the moment a human egg is fertilized has always taken place in the darkness of the mother's womb, there are now astounding laboratory taken pictures showing an inexplicable burst of light occurs at the moment of human conception.


Sarah Knapton, science editor
4/26/16 11:49 A.M.

Human life begins in a bright flash of light as a sperm meets an egg, scientists have shown for the first time, after capturing the astonishing ˜fireworks on film.

An explosion of tiny sparks erupts from the egg at the exact moment of conception.

"To see the zinc radiate out in a burst from each human egg was breathtaking,"
according to Professor Teresa Woodruff of Northwestern University

"It is an incredible spectacle, highlighting the very moment that a new life begins."
Unknown in the past, because the moment a human eg... (show quote)



"Let there be light."

"Let there be life."

A brilliant flash of light announcing life
A brilliant flash of light announcing life...

A bright light occurs simultaneously with human conception
A bright light occurs simultaneously with human co...

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May 25, 2019 09:46:47   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
nwtk2007 wrote:
It is! I like the way you put that. So much better a thought than the idea of just blinking out of existence.


Thank You and yes, it is... 👍

If you consider cause and effect you may likewise consider there are many unseen chains or effects which resonate within the entire life realm which may lead us further to more supple realms of existence or at least finer ones???

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May 25, 2019 10:40:07   #
JW
 
Zemirah wrote:
Is Blade's "authority" to express his religious beliefs and convictions in any way less than your "authority" to expound upon yours?

science - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com
[Search domain www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/science] https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/science

quote:Science is an "empirical" field, that is, it develops a body of knowledge by observing things and performing experiments. The meticulous process of gathering and analyzing data is called the "scientific method," and we sometimes use science to describe the knowledge we already have."End quote
Is Blade's "authority" to express his re... (show quote)


As I have said here several times already, everyone has a perfect right to express his beliefs and more power to him, even you do. However, it would be helpful if you understood the actual flow of the conversation before you elect to respond.

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May 25, 2019 10:59:15   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
JW wrote:
As I have said here several times already, everyone has a perfect right to express his beliefs and more power to him, even you do. However, it would be helpful if you understood the actual flow of the conversation before you elect to respond.


How was this not in"the flow of the converstation", JW?

"In the post following this are actual laboratory photos of the burst of light that occurs at the moment of Human fertilization.

Unknown in the past, because the moment a human egg is fertilized has always taken place in the darkness of the mother's womb, there are now astounding laboratory taken pictures showing an inexplicable burst of light occurs at the moment of human conception.

"Let there be light."

"Let there be life."" - Zemirah

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May 25, 2019 11:12:14   #
JW
 
eagleye13 wrote:
How was this not in"the flow of the converstation", JW?

"In the post following this are actual laboratory photos of the burst of light that occurs at the moment of Human fertilization.

Unknown in the past, because the moment a human egg is fertilized has always taken place in the darkness of the mother's womb, there are now astounding laboratory taken pictures showing an inexplicable burst of light occurs at the moment of human conception.

"Let there be light."

"Let there be life."" - Zemirah
How was this not in"the flow of the conversta... (show quote)


I was responding to the comment quoted in my response. I have not commented on the pictures. After I check them out, I may comment on them.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/trasancos/pro-lifers-there-is-no-flash-of-light-at-conception

checked it out...

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May 25, 2019 15:32:28   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
(Romans 1:18-19) "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the t***h.
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them."

After denying 20 ways from Sunday, that there is such a light, by referring to it as a "zinc spark" (rather than a light) and bitterly castigating all pro-lifers, this paper of propaganda finally quotes the actual heart of the scientific paper, which, in no way, is able to deny there is actually a "zinc spark."

Their emphasis on the laboratory procedure of detecting and recording that spark with "fluorescence microscopy" does not deny that (emphasized or not) the "spark" is there to film.

The actual paper is titled “The zinc spark is an inorganic signature of human egg activation” (Duncan, F. E. et al. Sci. Rep. 6, 24737), published by Professors Teresa K. Woodruff’s and Thomas V. O’Halloran’s research groups at Northwestern University in Chicago. The "flash of light" only refers to the “inorganic signature” of the “zinc spark” detected with fluorescence microscopy in the laboratory—an analytical technique.

Calcium levels rise in the egg when a sperm enters it. These high calcium levels cause zinc to be released outside the egg. Researchers wanted to see the zinc, so they simulated fertilization in the lab and put the eggs in a solution containing a fluorescent tag (FluoZin™-3). When the zinc is released, it is chemically labeled because this tag bonds to it. The tag (also called a fluorophore) can be illuminated with light of one color, and it emits light of a different, specific color. That “fluorescence” can be detected under a suitable microscope, thus revealing the zinc.

Consistently calling a flash of light, a "spark" does not remove the t***h that there is, indeed, an instantaneous "flash of light" at human conception.

The dishonesty on display of those who will turn themselves inside out to deny the God given humanity of new human life never fails to astound.


JW wrote:
I was responding to the comment quoted in my response. I have not commented on the pictures. After I check them out, I may comment on them.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/trasancos/pro-lifers-there-is-no-flash-of-light-at-conception

checked it out...

Reply
May 25, 2019 16:20:27   #
JW
 
Zemirah wrote:
(Romans 1:18-19) "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the t***h.
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them."

After denying 20 ways from Sunday, that there is such a light, by referring to it as a "zinc spark" (rather than a light) and bitterly castigating all pro-lifers, this paper of propaganda finally quotes the actual heart of the scientific paper, which, in no way, is able to deny there is actually a "zinc spark."

Their emphasis on the laboratory procedure of detecting and recording that spark with "fluorescence microscopy" does not deny that (emphasized or not) the "spark" is there to film.

The actual paper is titled “The zinc spark is an inorganic signature of human egg activation” (Duncan, F. E. et al. Sci. Rep. 6, 24737), published by Professors Teresa K. Woodruff’s and Thomas V. O’Halloran’s research groups at Northwestern University in Chicago. The "flash of light" only refers to the “inorganic signature” of the “zinc spark” detected with fluorescence microscopy in the laboratory—an analytical technique.

Calcium levels rise in the egg when a sperm enters it. These high calcium levels cause zinc to be released outside the egg. Researchers wanted to see the zinc, so they simulated fertilization in the lab and put the eggs in a solution containing a fluorescent tag (FluoZin™-3). When the zinc is released, it is chemically labeled because this tag bonds to it. The tag (also called a fluorophore) can be illuminated with light of one color, and it emits light of a different, specific color. That “fluorescence” can be detected under a suitable microscope, thus revealing the zinc.

Consistently calling a flash of light, a "spark" does not remove the t***h that there is, indeed, an instantaneous "flash of light" at human conception.

The dishonesty on display of those who will turn themselves inside out to deny the God given humanity of new human life never fails to astound.
(Romans 1:18-19) "For the wrath of God is re... (show quote)



"Calcium levels rise in the egg when a sperm enters it. These high calcium levels cause zinc to be released outside the egg. Researchers wanted to see the zinc, so they simulated fertilization in the lab and put the eggs in a solution containing a fluorescent tag (FluoZin™-3). When the zinc is released, it is chemically labeled because this tag bonds to it. The tag (also called a fluorophore) can be illuminated with light of one color, and it emits light of a different, specific color. That “fluorescence” can be detected under a suitable microscope, thus revealing the zinc."

Read this again. It explains the artificial origin of the "spark". The only thing that actually occurs is the chemical release of the zinc. Making the process visible was the whole point of the experiment.

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May 25, 2019 17:55:32   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Added by "Edit:" Confirmed, At the Moment of Conception, There is a Flash of Light.


Providing sufficient light to be able to record the "zinc spark" occurring in human fertilization was the reason and intent of the experiment. If there had been no spark there, there would have been no excitement about successfully recording it.

No one would get excited about filming unless there was something extraordinary about it...

They didn't "simulate" fertilization! When the sperm penetrated the egg, fertilization took place.

You read it again, for the first time on another scientific website observing and recording the "zinc spark" created by mice and other mammals at the moment of fertilization.

"Let there be Life."

They were able to predict and determine the relative healthiness and strength of each zygote by the brightness of the spark created at the moment of fertilization.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep22772

Scientific Reports volume 6, Article number: 22772 (2016)

The fertilization-induced zinc spark is a novel biomarker of mouse embryo quality and early development.

Nan Zhang, Francesca E. Duncan, Emily L. Que, Thomas V. O’Halloran & Teresa K. Woodruff

Scientific Reports volume 6, Article number: 22772 (2016

Abstract

Upon activation, mammalian eggs release billions of zinc ions in an exocytotic event termed the “zinc spark.” The zinc spark is dependent on and occurs coordinately with intracellular calcium t***sients, which are tightly associated with embryonic development. Thus, we hypothesized that the zinc spark represents an early extracellular physicochemical marker of the developmental potential of the zygote. To test this hypothesis, we monitored zinc exocytosis in individual mouse eggs following parthenogenetic activation or in vitro fertilization (IVF) and tracked their development. Retrospective analysis of zinc spark profiles revealed that parthenotes and zygotes that developed into blastocysts released more zinc than those that failed to develop. Prospective se******n of embryos based on their zinc spark profile significantly improved developmental outcomes and more than doubled the percentage of embryos that reached the blastocyst stage. Moreover, the zinc spark profile was also associated with embryo quality as the total cell number in the resulting morulae and blastocysts positively correlated with the zinc spark amplitude (R = 0.9209). Zinc sparks can thus serve as an early biomarker of zygote quality in mouse model.

Introduction

Recently, zinc emerged as an essential element required for the completion of meiosis and egg activation1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11. In mouse, meiotic maturation is accompanied by a substantial (50%) increase in total zinc content4, which is required to t***sition through anaphase. At fertilization, total zinc levels decrease. Within minutes of fertilization, zinc is released from the zygote into the extracellular space in a secretory event termed the “zinc spark”3,7. This zinc release closely follows calcium t***sients and is necessary for cell cycle resumption via pathways that include modulation of the cell cycle regulatory protein EMI22,8. Our work has shown that in human (Duncan et al. a manuscript submitted to Scientific Reports) and other mammalian species12, zinc spark is a hallmark of egg activation that happens upon parthenogenetic activation or fertilization13. Thus, the zinc spark represents an early marker of the quality of the mammalian egg, one of particular interest because it can be measured extracellularly. The predictive quality of the zinc spark as a marker of the developmental potential of human zygotes, however, is not readily evaluated due to ethical, legal and technical considerations regarding human embryo research. We therefore used a mouse model to determine whether zinc spark profiles are correlated with preimplantation embryo development14,15,16. We measured zinc spark profiles in individual mouse eggs following parthenogenetic activation or in vitro fertilization (IVF) and tracked the development of the resulting parthenotes and embryos, respectively. We found a significant correlation between the amplitude of the fertilization-induced zinc spark and successful embryo development to the blastocyst stage. Prospective se******n of zygotes based on their zinc spark amplitude improved IVF outcomes and more than doubled the blastocyst percentage, indicating that the magnitude of zinc released at the time of fertilization can be used to predict embryo quality. These studies provide strong evidence that the zinc spark, a conserved hallmark of egg activation in multiple mammalian species including human, can be used to predict IVF outcomes.
Results
Distinct ionomycin-induced zinc spark profiles are correlated with egg activation and blastocyst formation

To determine whether there is variability in zinc spark profiles that could underlie differences in the quality of individual eggs, we imaged zinc sparks in eggs collected from the same animal following activation with 5 μM Ca-ionomycin (Ca-Iono). Ca-Iono directly delivers exogenous calcium into the cell and induces a single large intracellular calcium t***sient17. Consistent with our previous findings that a rise in intracellular calcium triggers the zinc spark12, each of the cells treated with Ca-Iono mounted a single zinc spark (Fig. 1A a-f and Movie S1). Of note, each egg had a distinct zinc spark profile, which can be analyzed using a number of parameters including amplitude (maximum peak height), integrated intensity (area under the curve), duration, and rate of rise calculated as amplitude divided by the rising time (Fig. S1).

To further test the relationship between zinc spark profile and mouse embryonic development, we analyzed zinc spark profiles in individual eggs following parthenogenetic activation in calcium-free media using Ca-Iono or the apo (i.e. calcium free) form of ionomycin (Iono)18. Both reagents can induce an intracellular calcium rise. However, Ca-Iono delivers a bolus of exogenous calcium directly into the egg therefore Iono is thought to provide a better readout of egg quality as it only triggers the release of endogenous calcium stores to mount the activation-associated calcium t***sients. Cells treated with either activating agent were then allowed to develop, and at the conclusion of the experiment were characterized as “unactivated” eggs (cells that remained at metaphase of meiosis II; MII), “non-blastocyst” parthenotes, and “blastocyst” parthenotes (Fig. 1B). We found that compared to Ca-Iono, Iono treatment yielded higher percentages of both egg activation (85% Ca-Iono, 97% Iono; Fig. 1C,D) and blastocyst formation 120 hours post activation (11% Ca-Iono, 14% Iono; Fig. 1C-c,D-c). This incidence of blastocyst formation is comparable to the rate reported in the literature (16%) using the same activation method19. A majority of the eggs (74% Ca-Iono, 83% Iono; Fig. 1C-b,D-b) initiated preimplantation embryo development but did not reach the blastocyst stage (“non-blastocyst”).

Using this data, we performed a retrospective analysis to characterize the zinc spark profile associated with each of the three developmental outcomes. In both Ca-Iono and Iono treatments, the unactivated eggs displayed significantly lower zinc spark amplitudes and integrated intensity of all the groups (Fig. 1E). Zinc sparks in eggs that developed into blastocysts had higher amplitude and larger integrated intensity compared to non-blastocysts (Fig. 1E). We note that the duration of the Ca-Iono induced zinc spark was longer than that induced by Iono, which might be an effect of the excess calcium introduced into the cell by the Ca-Iono. Taken together, these results indicate that zinc spark profiles are closely related to egg quality and parthenogenetic development in mice.

To further test these findings, we prospectively selected embryos based on their zinc spark profile and monitored their development. Because the correlation between zinc spark profiles and embryo quality is more robust in Ca-Iono method compared to Iono method, we activated eggs with Ca-Iono and separated and cultured the parthenotes in two groups based on their zinc spark amplitude: those in the top 50th percentile and those in the bottom 50th percentile. These were then scored on their ability to progress to the blastocyst stage. Published rates of blastocyst formation for this protocol are low (16%)19 but we find more than twice as many activated eggs in the group whose zinc spark amplitude was in the top 50th percentile progressed through early development (top 50th: 19% blastocyst, bottom 50th: 8% blastocyst). These results indicate that the zinc spark profile is a statistically significant marker of mammalian embryo quality that can be used to select embryos with greater developmental potential.

Zinc sparks induced by fertilization correlate with development to blastocyst stage

We next investigated if zinc spark profiles observed during IVF were correlated with embryo development. We imaged a group of zona pellucida (ZP) intact eggs during fertilization and tracked their long-term development (N = 152, Fig. 2C). Among these eggs, we were able to document the zinc spark in real time for the first time upon fertilization. This egg mounted a zinc spark exactly two minutes and eight seconds after the sperm penetrated the ZP, and it reached the blastocyst stage 120 hours after fertilization (Fig. 2A and Movie S2). As was observed with parthenogenetic activation, IVF elicited different zinc spark profiles among eggs collected from the same animal. Figure 2B shows six fertilized eggs – four had one zinc spark (a,d,e,f); one had two zinc sparks (b) and one egg did not release a zinc spark (c) during the two-hour monitoring window.
Figure 2: Larger zinc spark release during IVF Figure 2 : Larger zinc spark release during IVF is associated with embryos that develop to the blastocyst stage.

From: The fertilization-induced zinc spark is a novel biomarker of mouse embryo quality and early development.



JW wrote:
"Calcium levels rise in the egg when a sperm enters it. These high calcium levels cause zinc to be released outside the egg. Researchers wanted to see the zinc, so they simulated fertilization in the lab and put the eggs in a solution containing a fluorescent tag (FluoZin™-3). When the zinc is released, it is chemically labeled because this tag bonds to it. The tag (also called a fluorophore) can be illuminated with light of one color, and it emits light of a different, specific color. That “fluorescence” can be detected under a suitable microscope, thus revealing the zinc."

Read this again. It explains the artificial origin of the "spark". The only thing that actually occurs is the chemical release of the zinc. Making the process visible was the whole point of the experiment.
"Calcium levels rise in the egg when a sperm ... (show quote)

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