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A prescient allegory written for today's OPP thousands of years ago
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May 17, 2019 17:41:59   #
America 1 Loc: South Miami
 
debeda wrote:
There is definitely a lot of false reality going around. Certainly the preponderance is NOT on the right. I wonder why you would post such a thing and make it try to fit into politics. There was a young native American man who joined the service during Vietnam. He was captured and tortured, then rescued after 18 long months. He went back to his home, but couldnt fit in. He began to drink, do drugs, abuse his friends and girlfriend. People pitied him for what he had gone through, but began to avoid him. One morning the tribal shaman went to visit the young man. The young man was hung over and NOT in the mood for company. The shaman went in, pulled the curtains wide, and wouldn't go away. "What do you want from me?" The young man said. "I want you to come home" said the shaman. "What are you talking about, old man, I have been here for 3 years!" Shouted the young man. The shaman said, "Really? I have not seen you since before you went to war." The young man thought he knew where the shaman was going. He said, "You dont know what they did to me!! I was a helpless prisoner!" The shaman said, "Do you h**e them? Do you think of that time?" The young man said, "Yes, I h**e them! I think of that time every moment!" The shaman said, "Then you are still a prisoner."

Never be a prisoner to your h**e and fear. It will destroy you.
There is definitely a lot of false reality going a... (show quote)


Overload of prisoners posting here.

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May 17, 2019 17:44:24   #
debeda
 
Nickolai wrote:
Conservatives have been resistant to change historically. Conservatives resisted the war for independence. They were the Tories that remained loyal to the King of England acted as spies on behalf of the monarchy. Many sold out and moved to England


In my opinion conservatives CONSERVE what is good, be that assets, more, morals, etc. The current iteration of liberals and progressives want to throw the baby out with the bath water (figuratively and, sadly, literally) and conserve nothing. They dont want to build upon a solid foundation but constantly reinvent the wheel, all the while shrieking like Chicken Little

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May 17, 2019 17:45:31   #
trucksterbud
 
rumitoid wrote:
In the Allegory of the Cave, Plato distinguishes between people who mistake sensory knowledge for the t***h and people who really do see the t***h. It goes like this:

The Cave

Imagine a cave, in which there are three prisoners. The prisoners are tied to some rocks, their arms and legs are bound and their head is tied so that they cannot look at anything but the stonewall in front of them. Right Wing Partisans.
These prisoners have been here since birth and have never seen outside of the cave.
Behind the prisoners is a fire, and between them is a raised walkway.
People outside the cave walk along this walkway carrying things on their head including; animals, plants, wood and stone.

The Shadows

So, imagine that you are one of the prisoners. You cannot look at anything behind or to the side of you – you must look at the wall in front of you. That is what your party dictates.
When people walk along the walkway, you can see shadows of the objects they are carrying cast on to the wall.
If you had never seen the real objects ever before, you would believe that the shadows of objects were ‘real.’

The Game

Plato suggests that the prisoners would begin a ‘game’ of guessing which shadow would appear next.
If one of the prisoners were to correctly guess, the others would praise him as clever and say that he were a master of nature.

The Escape

One of the prisoners then escapes from their bindings and leaves the cave.
He is shocked at the world he discovers outside the cave and does not believe it can be real. Can Liberals exist?
As he becomes used to his new surroundings, he realizes that his former view of reality was wrong. Not really wrong but so limited as to be unable to make a t***hful assessment of anything.
He begins to understand his new world, and sees that the Sun is the source of life and goes on an intellectual journey where he discovers beauty and meaning.
He see’s that his former life, and the guessing game they played is useless.

The Return

The prisoner returns to the cave, to inform the other prisoners of his findings.
They do not believe him and threaten to k**l him if he tries to set them free.

And there you have the vision of the Right here and elsewhere.
In the Allegory of the Cave, Plato distinguishes b... (show quote)


Ya, roomi, always trying to play "Holier than thou..." just to stir things up. Which cave did you escape from..?? And you still didn't learn anything...??

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May 17, 2019 18:07:14   #
Iliamna1
 
What a warped twist on American history! The Tories, who were supporters of a nearly dictatorial government, supported the King, The WHIGS (We Hope In God) party favored less government and taxation. Strangely, the original WHIG party developed into the Democrat party (which supported s***ery) and the other Americans developed into several other parties, but finally ended up as the Republican party, of which, Abraham Lincoln was a member, and it's fundamental platform was for the freeing of the s***es.
The Democrat party is the party of knuckle-d**gging troglodites.

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May 17, 2019 18:12:27   #
Ricktloml
 
rumitoid wrote:
That is a totally bizarre alt-right rant. You do not seriously believe that nonsense? I know of no one who wants to do away with the 2nd Amendment or wants open borders or control free speech or (where on earth did you get this ludicrous idea) promote d*****t sexual behaviors. Irresponsible demonizing, sick and twisted attacks to destroy our two party system. This is industrial strength Troll.


You obviously haven't been paying attention to the Democrat/socialist Party p**********l candidates. I would point out you have to go by what they do, not just what they say...but as far as the 2nd Amendment there are several who proudly proclaim they will use executive orders to get the gun control the 2nd Amendment prohibits. And while the Democrat/socialist Party claims they don't want open borders, ALL their policies (or lack of doing ANYTHING,) are geared to just that. I guess you've missed the left defining deviancy downward the last few decades. Talk about refusing to see.

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May 17, 2019 19:21:30   #
Iliamna1
 
Admit it , Rumi. You've lost this argument on all fronts.

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May 17, 2019 20:00:03   #
RT friend Loc: Kangaroo valley NSW Australia
 
rumitoid wrote:
In the Allegory of the Cave, Plato distinguishes between people who mistake sensory knowledge for the t***h and people who really do see the t***h. It goes like this:

The Cave

Imagine a cave, in which there are three prisoners. The prisoners are tied to some rocks, their arms and legs are bound and their head is tied so that they cannot look at anything but the stonewall in front of them. Right Wing Partisans.
These prisoners have been here since birth and have never seen outside of the cave.
Behind the prisoners is a fire, and between them is a raised walkway.
People outside the cave walk along this walkway carrying things on their head including; animals, plants, wood and stone.

The Shadows

So, imagine that you are one of the prisoners. You cannot look at anything behind or to the side of you – you must look at the wall in front of you. That is what your party dictates.
When people walk along the walkway, you can see shadows of the objects they are carrying cast on to the wall.
If you had never seen the real objects ever before, you would believe that the shadows of objects were ‘real.’

The Game

Plato suggests that the prisoners would begin a ‘game’ of guessing which shadow would appear next.
If one of the prisoners were to correctly guess, the others would praise him as clever and say that he were a master of nature.

The Escape

One of the prisoners then escapes from their bindings and leaves the cave.
He is shocked at the world he discovers outside the cave and does not believe it can be real. Can Liberals exist?
As he becomes used to his new surroundings, he realizes that his former view of reality was wrong. Not really wrong but so limited as to be unable to make a t***hful assessment of anything.
He begins to understand his new world, and sees that the Sun is the source of life and goes on an intellectual journey where he discovers beauty and meaning.
He see’s that his former life, and the guessing game they played is useless.

The Return

The prisoner returns to the cave, to inform the other prisoners of his findings.
They do not believe him and threaten to k**l him if he tries to set them free.

And there you have the vision of the Right here and elsewhere.
In the Allegory of the Cave, Plato distinguishes b... (show quote)


A better analagy would be the echo chamber, written by the German Parliament yesterday read all about it on the "Real News Network " their guest Shir Hever, the point is Israel can't possibly survive the US Policeman era, Jews can't be tied to Israel or they won't survive either, this is probably the Christian plan and Germany that is the German left is fully on board with Hitler, Trump hummm well let's just say he's in the Cave looking at shadows, he'll never be let out alone it's just not safe.

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May 17, 2019 20:37:35   #
son of witless
 
rumitoid wrote:
Okay, MAGA hats. You have to be blind or diminished in some way to wear one. Only the unreality of a Cave-like view of the world could account for such a sad statement. You do not and maybe can't get it. The reality of Trump's undermining our vital institutions, the Constitution, our image as a nation, the office he holds, and American ideals is so clear and unmistakable there should be no need to mention it. It is just crazy not to see it.


I do not have a MAGA hat. Nothing against them, just not my style. Although I see they have a very useful function. Making Left wing Lunatics go bonkers. I fail to see why they drive you poor fellows so crazy. They are simply a form of expression. A form of free speech. I mean I did not like to see Obama and Hillary hats, but I did not start an argument or a fight with the people I saw wearing them. I recognized their right to wear silly hats.

People on your side decided that they were bulls and MAGA hats were red capes. America supposedly enshrines certain rights in our Constitution. Like the right to wear a MAGA hat with out being confronted by a foaming at the mouth berserk left wing i***t. Or a left wing Hollywood i***t staging a f**e attack on himself by fictional MAGA hat wearing right wingers.

Right after my folks McCain and Palin lost to Obama-Biden, I did not go nuts and cry, or attack their supporters. I did however like to wear my old Palin hat to my local Mcdonalds. One old Obama fan would give me dirty looks. He knew better than to confront me, but his side won and he still was bitter that I dared to wear a hat he objected to. In fact I was at a college in 2008, where 99.9999% of everyone there was a big Obama fan. I surrounded by them, some of were related to me. Did I go crazy ? No sir I did not. I even stood next to a cardboard Obama and had my picture taken with him. We both had grins on our faces.

Maybe I should get me one of them MAGA hats and see how long it takes to be attacked .

Trump is not undermining our institutions at all. He is reviving them after they were almost destroyed under young Barry the Obama.

What does this have to with the allegory of the cave ? You have proven that it was not a thing.

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May 17, 2019 21:12:20   #
debeda
 
son of witless wrote:
I do not have a MAGA hat. Nothing against them, just not my style. Although I see they have a very useful function. Making Left wing Lunatics go bonkers. I fail to see why they drive you poor fellows so crazy. They are simply a form of expression. A form of free speech. I mean I did not like to see Obama and Hillary hats, but I did not start an argument or a fight with the people I saw wearing them. I recognized their right to wear silly hats.

People on your side decided that they were bulls and MAGA hats were red capes. America supposedly enshrines certain rights in our Constitution. Like the right to wear a MAGA hat with out being confronted by a foaming at the mouth berserk left wing i***t. Or a left wing Hollywood i***t staging a f**e attack on himself by fictional MAGA hat wearing right wingers.

Right after my folks McCain and Palin lost to Obama-Biden, I did not go nuts and cry, or attack their supporters. I did however like to wear my old Palin hat to my local Mcdonalds. One old Obama fan would give me dirty looks. He knew better than to confront me, but his side won and he still was bitter that I dared to wear a hat he objected to. In fact I was at a college in 2008, where 99.9999% of everyone there was a big Obama fan. I surrounded by them, some of were related to me. Did I go crazy ? No sir I did not. I even stood next to a cardboard Obama and had my picture taken with him. We both had grins on our faces.

Maybe I should get me one of them MAGA hats and see how long it takes to be attacked .

Trump is not undermining our institutions at all. He is reviving them after they were almost destroyed under young Barry the Obama.

What does this have to with the allegory of the cave ? You have proven that it was not a thing.
I do not have a MAGA hat. Nothing against them, ju... (show quote)


Well said, Son

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May 17, 2019 23:36:14   #
Ricktloml
 
America 1 wrote:
Overload of prisoners posting here.


Well said

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May 17, 2019 23:41:17   #
debeda
 
America 1 wrote:
Overload of prisoners posting here.


True story!

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May 18, 2019 19:17:45   #
Abel
 
redpill wrote:
Just talking points. I counter every one of them and challenge you to support your accusations. Vital Institutions?: Name them. The Constitution? really?: How? Image as a Nation? Again REALLY?: What talking heads are you listening to? The Office: let me guess on this one, you don't like his tweets? Explain. American Ideals: Picking and choosing are we?: List the ones you think he is undermining. Hope it is not the Rule of Law or Freedom of Speech. What are the ones you are thinking of? And it is just crazy to spew hatred. Discussions are great. Rhetoric is not.
Just talking points. I counter every one of them ... (show quote)


Maybe it would be a good thing, and even helpful, if Progressives learned how to discuss rather than just parrot their "leaders."

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May 20, 2019 11:24:48   #
redpill Loc: Oregon - not PDX
 
debeda wrote:
In my opinion conservatives CONSERVE what is good, be that assets, more, morals, etc. The current iteration of liberals and progressives want to throw the baby out with the bath water (figuratively and, sadly, literally) and conserve nothing. They dont want to build upon a solid foundation but constantly reinvent the wheel, all the while shrieking like Chicken Little
In my opinion conservatives CONSERVE what is good,... (show quote)


Bingo. There is plenty to modify, but hardly anything that has to be destroyed out right.

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May 20, 2019 11:32:02   #
redpill Loc: Oregon - not PDX
 
Iliamna1 wrote:
Rumi, you and I have agreed on some things and disagreed on others. May I please share with you what I see coming from the liberal left, aka, the Democrat party? The following items seem to be their platform:
Unbridled sex legalized for any and everyone, despite age or perversion, mounting taxes and spending, often for nonsense, demonization of Christians and the Judeo-Christian ethics on nearly every issue, k*****g of babies, born and unborn, elevation of the environment and government to deity status, open borders with nearly unlimited immigration, confusion of g****rs, passage of legalizing pot and other drugs, stifling of free speech for conservatives (but not liberals). You can say this is untrue, but there are news reports and videos to substantiate what we see (some clips posted above), not mere shadows on a wall. This what the Democrat party is presenting to the American public and most of us don't like it.
Rumi, you and I have agreed on some things and dis... (show quote)


Well stated.

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May 20, 2019 11:40:03   #
redpill Loc: Oregon - not PDX
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Shameful, rumi, that you would allude to Plato's allegory to post an obviously prejudicial political argument. In case you didn't know this, there is a real world outside the bubble of politics. This real world is not driven by any political or ideological agenda. There is an unbridgeable gap between those who politicize EVERYTHING and those who don't.

Those who perceive the world only through the senses are pitiable creatures to say the least. These are the ones who do not think for themselves, they merely look at the world and its marvelous manifestations rather than seeing through things. There is an abundance of these types in this world. Atheists most likely top the list. Empirical evidence is all they have to inform them. Such a shame.

In Plato’s theory, the cave represents people who believe that knowledge comes from what we see and hear in the world – empirical evidence. The cave shows that believers of empirical knowledge are trapped in a ‘cave’ of misunderstanding.

The Shadows

The Shadows represent the perceptions of those who believe empirical evidence ensures knowledge. If you believe that what you see should be taken as t***h, then you are merely seeing a shadow of the t***h. In Plato’s opinion you are a ‘pleb’ if you believe this (their insult for those who are not Philosophers)!

The Game

The Game represents how people believe that one person can be a ‘master’ when they have knowledge of the empirical world. Plato is demonstrating that this master does not actually know any t***h, and suggesting that it is ridiculous to admire someone like this.

The Escape

The escaped prisoner represents the Philosopher, who seeks knowledge outside of the cave and outside of the senses.
The Sun represents philosophical t***h and knowledge
His intellectual journey represents a philosophers journey when finding t***h and wisdom

The Return

The other prisoners reaction to the escapee returning represents that people are scared of knowing philosophical t***hs and do not trust philosophers.
Shameful, rumi, that you would allude to Plato's a... (show quote)


Very interesting analysis. I don't agree or disagree but did enjoy the intellectual way you addressed this allegory. Maybe some time in the future, if the opportunity arises, I can take the time to debate points you might make. Allegorical stories are like poems, they are made to create thought. Interpretation is the fun part.

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