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A Crack In Trump's Stonewalling
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May 5, 2019 16:00:29   #
son of witless
 
slatten49 wrote:
May 1st, 2019, By David Frum

To date, the cover-up has worked about as well as President Donald Trump could have hoped.

Almost four years after Trump declared his campaign for the presidency, and more than 30 months since he won that office, he has successfully kept secret almost all the things he wished to keep secret. How much debt does he owe, and to whom? How much of his income derives from people who do business with the U.S. government? How much of his income derives from foreign sources? Who are his business partners, and do any of them present ethical or national-security concerns.

These basics of post-Watergate official disclosure have all been suppressed. Incredibly, even after the delivery of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report, the American people still have only the haziest idea of Trump’s business connections to Russia and Russians. Do those connections cast any light on why the Russian government was so eager to have him elected president in 2016? Perhaps that information is held somewhere within the Department of Justice or the FBI, but citizens and taxpayers can only guess.

If Trump has his way, the secrecy will continue for a lot longer. In the past few days, he’s filed suit to prevent his bankers from complying with a congressional subpoena. His secretary of the Treasury has defied a never-before-questioned law and refused to surrender the president’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee. His attorney general mischaracterized the Mueller report, as Mueller complained in writing, and now has operational control over the ongoing criminal prosecutions bequeathed to the Justice Department.

Trump’s trouble is that the dike is sprouting more leaks than he has fingers with which to plug the expanding trickles. Two federal judges, one in Maryland and one in the District of Columbia, have approved lawsuits based on the U.S. Constitution’s emoluments clause demanding information about Trump’s revenues from foreign-government entities. Those lawsuits—one filed by congressional Democrats, the other by attorneys general for the state of Maryland and the District of Columbia—now proceed to two different appellate courts, the Fourth Circuit and the D.C. Circuit. At this rate, an emoluments case could reach the Supreme Court before the 2020 e******n.

The dispute over the president’s tax returns has not yet triggered a judicial process. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin must first decide whether he will risk a contempt-of-Congress citation and shoulder personal legal risk. If the tax-return demand ends up in court, we’ll witness the unusual spectacle of a Republican administration inviting judges to reverse decades of conservative legal theory and to defy the clear letter of the law in favor of nebulous concepts of privacy.

For half a century, conservative lawyers have mocked the 1965 birth-control case in which Justice William O. Douglas created a new constitutional right to privacy out of the “penumbras” formed by “emanations” of the Bill of Rights. Perhaps Douglas, like Julian Assange before him, will now t***sition from conservative villain to Trumpist hero.

The law very much favors Congress in the subpoena of Trump’s bankers. Congressional subpoena power extends to any subject on which Congress can constitutionally legislate, among other realms, as the Supreme Court has affirmed again and again. It’s not necessary that Congress actually have any legislation in mind, so long as it potentially could. The Supreme Court explained in 1975: “The wisdom of congressional approach or methodology is not open to judicial veto … Nor is the legitimacy of a congressional inquiry to be defined by what it produces. The very nature of the investigative function—like any research—is that it takes the searchers up some ‘blind alleys’ and into nonproductive enterprises. To be a valid legislative inquiry there need be no predictable end result.”

Meanwhile, Attorney General William Barr has just advanced a likely doomed new legal theory that a president is entitled to shut down any investigation that he feels is unfair to him: “The president does not have to sit there constitutionally and allow a special-counsel investigation to run its course. The president could terminate the proceeding and it would not be a corrupt intent, because he was being falsely accused.” It’s an argument for total impunity based purely on political power—and for that reason will gain no favor from either Congress or courts.

Perhaps the Trump administration hopes that it can run out the clock on the bank subpoenas and the other matters, too. But so many clocks are ticking over so many inquiries into so many areas of potential scandal. Can they all be postponed and postponed past 2020? For a president with many guilty secrets, everything turns on the ability to insert delay after delay before ultimate legal defeat. It’s not a great plan. It’s liable to go wrong, maybe catastrophically wrong. At this point, though, it’s all he’s got.
May 1st, 2019, By David Frum br br To date, the c... (show quote)


" For a president with many guilty secrets, everything turns on the ability to insert delay after delay before ultimate legal defeat. It’s not a great plan. It’s liable to go wrong, maybe catastrophically wrong. At this point, though, it’s all he’s got. "

Obviously the Mueller Investigation was a fishing expedition. Two years and nothing. Now Congressional Democrats wish to continue an open ended discovery, based on nothing. Collusion, Collusion, Collusion backed up by nothing. Then Obstruction, Obstruction, Obstruction once again backed up by nothing.

I suppose the good thing is that Democrats can pass nothing harmful to the US of A while ahuntin for witches.

Reply
May 5, 2019 18:48:31   #
Bcon
 
slatten49 wrote:
Vernon, for some reason, all my computer picked up on the last post of yours was your quote from your previous one....


Slatten I truly enjoy your posts and even though they are not what I believe, you are very articulate. With the intelligence that you show, I am really disappointed in your political bent. I am sure that you can see the improvements that the e******n of Trump has accomplished for America, from employment, to the great economy, to foreign policy in getting our allies to pay more of their own way, to the improvement in the trade deals, to the diplomacy with Our adversaries, etc., etc. What I don’t understand is your reasoning in not being glad that we, as a country, are recovering from the worst eight years that we had to endure under the false presidency of Obama. I truly believe that you love America, but I am confused by your posts.

Reply
May 6, 2019 10:32:51   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
Slatten, I can't believe that you would say this. If anything, it's the Democrats, Hillary and BHO (Dem/Hill/BHO) who have been the artful dodgers. Every seeming fantasy thing he's complained of, has been borne out. Dem/Hill/BHO did bug his campaign HQ, the Dem/Hill/BHO did collude.

This is part of progressive long term legacy. They scoffed at McCarthy's accusations of penetration of the governemnt and ARMY. Alger Hiss was a spy.

With Barr's investigation of the investigaton and FISA Warrant abuse becoming public, that rumbling sound you're hearing in the distance, is the cracks developing in their flamsy facade. You can't indict a sitting president but no one has ever maintained that you can't indict a former president nor a former p**********l candidate.

And Kerry is another with a lot to worry about.
Slatten, I can't believe that you would say this. ... (show quote)

I wrote many times prior to the 2016 p**********l e******n that whether Trump or Clinton won, I would be relegated to holding my nose, biting my lips and gnashing my teeth to live with the results. I was and remain disappointed with a system that offers, artful dodgers or not, such bad choices.

With regards to how anyone could feel this way, C-L, I will respond with a likely paraphrase of a bumper sticker read years ago (origin unknown): "If you're not alarmed with what's going on, then you haven't been paying attention." Unsurprisingly, many on both sides feel this way. As a result, v**ers are often left, post-e******ns, with a feeling of hoping for the best while preparing for the worst.

The legacy that I sense both parties seeking is simply that of partisan/ideological control for as long as they can, with each putting party before country. President Trump is just the latest offering by a GOP seeking to obtain that control. The fear is that we will be offered another bad choice of options from each major party.

As far as future investigations and indictments go, we all will be left with the actions taken by Congress and or the courts.

Reply
 
 
May 6, 2019 10:41:31   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
son of witless wrote:
" For a president with many guilty secrets, everything turns on the ability to insert delay after delay before ultimate legal defeat. It’s not a great plan. It’s liable to go wrong, maybe catastrophically wrong. At this point, though, it’s all he’s got. "

Obviously the Mueller Investigation was a fishing expedition. Two years and nothing. Now Congressional Democrats wish to continue an open ended discovery, based on nothing. Collusion, Collusion, Collusion backed up by nothing. Then Obstruction, Obstruction, Obstruction once again backed up by nothing.

I suppose the good thing is that Democrats can pass nothing harmful to the US of A while ahuntin for witches.
" For a president with many guilty secrets, e... (show quote)

To state or write that "Obviously, the Mueller Investigation was a fishing expedition. Two years and nothing," borders on the absurd and amounts to little more than wishful thinking.

Reply
May 6, 2019 10:58:54   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
Bcon wrote:
Slatten I truly enjoy your posts and even though they are not what I believe, you are very articulate. With the intelligence that you show, I am really disappointed in your political bent. I am sure that you can see the improvements that the e******n of Trump has accomplished for America, from employment, to the great economy, to foreign policy in getting our allies to pay more of their own way, to the improvement in the trade deals, to the diplomacy with Our adversaries, etc., etc. What I don’t understand is your reasoning in not being glad that we, as a country, are recovering from the worst eight years that we had to endure under the false presidency of Obama. I truly believe that you love America, but I am confused by your posts.
Slatten I truly enjoy your posts and even though ... (show quote)

Thank you, Bcon. Considering you recognize my intelligence and love for America, I respectfully hope that you will understand my being just as disappointed and having much trouble understanding your allegiance to President Trump.

Reply
May 6, 2019 11:11:05   #
Rose42
 
slatten49 wrote:
Thank you, Bcon. Considering you recognize my intelligence and love for America, I respectfully hope that you will understand my being just as disappointed and having much trouble understanding your allegiance to President Trump.


Do you remember Reagan and Tip O'Neill were political foes but at the end of the day they were cordial with each other. Countrymen didn't consider people with opposing views as enemies though I always thought the fringe wingnuts weren't exactly productive.

Reply
May 6, 2019 11:40:04   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
Rose42 wrote:
Do you remember Reagan and Tip O'Neill were political foes but at the end of the day they were cordial with each other. Countrymen didn't consider people with opposing views as enemies though I always thought the fringe wingnuts weren't exactly productive.

Yes, I remember, Rose. Wouldn't it be nice if more members of Congress regained that cordiality and mutual respect for opposing views and enjoying a shot of whiskey together after-hours

God forbid that compromise break out.

Reply
 
 
May 6, 2019 17:43:21   #
Bcon
 
slatten49 wrote:
Thank you, Bcon. Considering you recognize my intelligence and love for America, I respectfully hope that you will understand my being just as disappointed and having much trouble understanding your allegiance to President Trump.


My allegiance to the president is simply because he has promised to do many of the things he has already accomplished and these, among others, were what I wanted for America. Less payments to countries that should be carrying their own water and not expect everything from “ rich” America. Less allegiance to the very corrupt United Nations. No paying homage to foreign leaders as Obama did. Better trade deals with the rest of the world, which I believe is happening. Better funding of our military that Obama allowed to regress to pre world war numbers. Standing up to threats to our country by showing strengths and not buying promises , such as from North Korea that Clinton was duped by. These reasons, and the numerous Obama placed regulations that were trashed by Trump for the betterment of the country. The opening of the banned by Obama oilfield locations that allow us to be a leader in oil production. There are many other accomplishments that are too numerous to mention. Now I ask you, what is there not to like?

Reply
May 6, 2019 20:52:58   #
son of witless
 
slatten49 wrote:
To state or write that "Obviously, the Mueller Investigation was a fishing expedition. Two years and nothing," borders on the absurd and amounts to little more than wishful thinking.


You need to compare Mueller's treatment of Trump with Comey's treatment of Hillary. The difference is motivation. Comey laid out the case for locking Hillary up and welding the cell door shut. Then he said no prosecutor would proceed. Mueller laid out no proof and then hinted about Trump's guilt.

The difference is the Mueller was a motivated Prosecutor. If he had anything at all on Trump he would have run with it. Then look at Comey. Comey was totally unmotivated. Hillary could have committed murder, handed Comey the smoking gun, and a confession, and Comey would not have recommended prosecuting her.

Reply
May 6, 2019 23:38:23   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
son of witless wrote:
You need to compare Mueller's treatment of Trump with Comey's treatment of Hillary. The difference is motivation. Comey laid out the case for locking Hillary up and welding the cell door shut. Then he said no prosecutor would proceed. Mueller laid out no proof and then hinted about Trump's guilt.

The difference is the Mueller was a motivated Prosecutor. If he had anything at all on Trump he would have run with it. Then look at Comey. Comey was totally unmotivated. Hillary could have committed murder, handed Comey the smoking gun, and a confession, and Comey would not have recommended prosecuting her.
You need to compare Mueller's treatment of Trump w... (show quote)

I guess this is your way of avoiding admitting that the investigation was not just a "fishing expedition" and "two years of nothing." The resulting indictments, convictions, guilty pleas and convictions suggests otherwise, as does the following...

"Trump's staff cooperated with Russian agents. Yes collusion, But collusion isn’t a crime.

Mueller decided there wasn’t enough evidence to charge with conspiracy, which is a crime, and stated he would not prosecute for conspiracy. Although he found Russia wanted to help Trump win, and Trump staff were willing to accept that help, the evidence fell short of what he thought he could prove beyond a reasonable doubt on the crime of conspiracy against the US with a foreign government = Russia.
On obstruction, Mueller lays out detailed, clear, and overwhelming evidence of obstruction of justice. The evidence clearly proves that Trump is guilty of multiple counts of obstruction of justice. In my opinion, there is no reasonable reading of the evidence that doesn’t lend itself to that conclusion, i.e. Trump obstructed justice multiple times.

Here’s what Mueller says about obstruction: 'Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations. The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General's recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony. Viewing the acts collectively can help to illuminate their significance.'

But due to DOJ policy that says a sitting President can’t be charged with a crime while in office, Mueller does not indict.

Mueller also says since he’s not charging, due to DOJ policy, he also won’t state a conclusion on obstruction as that would be unfair.

Mueller goes on to say he is preserving the evidence and the remedy to a President that has committed crimes such a obstruction are limited to: Prosecute once the President leaves office, and Congress can impeach.

Bottom line: The only reason our President isn’t in jail right now is because of DOJ policy that you can’t charge a sitting President."

If you doubt that, there are close to 400 former federal prosecutors who served all over the country and under both Republican and Democratic administrations who signed a letter saying as much...

https://dmlnewsapp.com/breaking-hundreds-former-prosectors-sign-letter-mueller-report-obstruction-justice/

Excerpt from link: “Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice,” the former federal prosecutors wrote.

Reply
May 7, 2019 04:45:31   #
son of witless
 
slatten49 wrote:
I guess this is your way of avoiding admitting that the investigation was not just a "fishing expedition" and "two years of nothing." The resulting indictments, convictions, guilty pleas and convictions suggests otherwise, as does the following...

"Trump's staff cooperated with Russian agents. Yes collusion, But collusion isn’t a crime.

Mueller decided there wasn’t enough evidence to charge with conspiracy, which is a crime, and stated he would not prosecute for conspiracy. Although he found Russia wanted to help Trump win, and Trump staff were willing to accept that help, the evidence fell short of what he thought he could prove beyond a reasonable doubt on the crime of conspiracy against the US with a foreign government = Russia.
On obstruction, Mueller lays out detailed, clear, and overwhelming evidence of obstruction of justice. The evidence clearly proves that Trump is guilty of multiple counts of obstruction of justice. In my opinion, there is no reasonable reading of the evidence that doesn’t lend itself to that conclusion, i.e. Trump obstructed justice multiple times.

Here’s what Mueller says about obstruction: 'Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations. The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General's recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony. Viewing the acts collectively can help to illuminate their significance.'

But due to DOJ policy that says a sitting President can’t be charged with a crime while in office, Mueller does not indict.

Mueller also says since he’s not charging, due to DOJ policy, he also won’t state a conclusion on obstruction as that would be unfair.

Mueller goes on to say he is preserving the evidence and the remedy to a President that has committed crimes such a obstruction are limited to: Prosecute once the President leaves office, and Congress can impeach.

Bottom line: The only reason our President isn’t in jail right now is because of DOJ policy that you can’t charge a sitting President."

If you doubt that, there are close to 400 former federal prosecutors who served all over the country and under both Republican and Democratic administrations who signed a letter saying as much...

https://dmlnewsapp.com/breaking-hundreds-former-prosectors-sign-letter-mueller-report-obstruction-justice/

Excerpt from link: “Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice,” the former federal prosecutors wrote.
I guess this is your way of avoiding admitting tha... (show quote)


Mueller is supposed to find and weigh evidence, not inject his personal opinions. As far as Russia wanting Trump to win, you seem ignorant of how Russia works. Russia did not care who won. They only care about weakening whomever won. They threw dirt at both candidates. If they threw more at Hillary it only shows that they were fooled like everyone else by the crooked polling. They believed Hillary was a shoe in.

Hillary paid for the Steele Dossier which was Russian disinformation, and yet you are fine and dandy with that little bit of Russia-Hillary Collusion.

Reply
 
 
May 7, 2019 07:57:12   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
son of witless wrote:
Mueller is supposed to find and weigh evidence, not inject his personal opinions. As far as Russia wanting Trump to win, you seem ignorant of how Russia works. Russia did not care who won. They only care about weakening whomever won. They threw dirt at both candidates. If they threw more at Hillary it only shows that they were fooled like everyone else by the crooked polling. They believed Hillary was a shoe in.

Hillary paid for the Steele Dossier which was Russian disinformation, and yet you are fine and dandy with that little bit of Russia-Hillary Collusion.
Mueller is supposed to find and weigh evidence, no... (show quote)


Yet again, you deflect from being previously absurd by stating Mueller's investigation was a fishing expedition and a waste of two years.

Insofar as this post of yours is concerned, we seem to agree on the Russian intent. However, you exhibit a degree of your ignorance by claiming my being "fine and dandy" with any collusion on Russia's part. I ask that you please point out the specific basis for such a foolish assertion.

Good luck with that.

Reply
May 7, 2019 08:29:58   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
slatten49 wrote:
Thank you, Vernon.

So far, Trump has proven to be quite the artful dodger.


I think he took lessons from Obama~~~

Reply
May 7, 2019 10:06:27   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
lindajoy wrote:
I think he took lessons from Obama~~~


Reply
May 7, 2019 10:15:00   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
slatten49 wrote:
I guess this is your way of avoiding admitting that the investigation was not just a "fishing expedition" and "two years of nothing." The resulting indictments, convictions, guilty pleas and convictions suggests otherwise, as does the following...

"Trump's staff cooperated with Russian agents. Yes collusion, But collusion isn’t a crime.

Mueller decided there wasn’t enough evidence to charge with conspiracy, which is a crime, and stated he would not prosecute for conspiracy. Although he found Russia wanted to help Trump win, and Trump staff were willing to accept that help, the evidence fell short of what he thought he could prove beyond a reasonable doubt on the crime of conspiracy against the US with a foreign government = Russia.
On obstruction, Mueller lays out detailed, clear, and overwhelming evidence of obstruction of justice. The evidence clearly proves that Trump is guilty of multiple counts of obstruction of justice. In my opinion, there is no reasonable reading of the evidence that doesn’t lend itself to that conclusion, i.e. Trump obstructed justice multiple times.

Here’s what Mueller says about obstruction: 'Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations. The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General's recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony. Viewing the acts collectively can help to illuminate their significance.'

But due to DOJ policy that says a sitting President can’t be charged with a crime while in office, Mueller does not indict.

Mueller also says since he’s not charging, due to DOJ policy, he also won’t state a conclusion on obstruction as that would be unfair.

Mueller goes on to say he is preserving the evidence and the remedy to a President that has committed crimes such a obstruction are limited to: Prosecute once the President leaves office, and Congress can impeach.

Bottom line: The only reason our President isn’t in jail right now is because of DOJ policy that you can’t charge a sitting President."

If you doubt that, there are close to 400 former federal prosecutors who served all over the country and under both Republican and Democratic administrations who signed a letter saying as much...

https://dmlnewsapp.com/breaking-hundreds-former-prosectors-sign-letter-mueller-report-obstruction-justice/

Excerpt from link: “Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice,” the former federal prosecutors wrote.
I guess this is your way of avoiding admitting tha... (show quote)

The total is now up to 450+ federal prosecutors who believe Trump to have likely been guilty of a felony....

https://www.ibtimes.com/trump-guilty-felony-if-he-wasnt-president-according-450-federal-prosecutors-2790238

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