Show me something Bcon, and I'll be honest, it's a thing I have never heard a conservative intelligently define, let's see if you are up to it.

We need a baseline for the "worst eight years we have had to endure"...how bad was it?

Let's establish where the country and it's economy was at when Obama took office...
...unemployment was at 11% and December and January after the e******n we lost 700,000/800,000 more jobs each month. Bush lost somewhere between 20 and 25 million jobs in his eight years, and when he took office Clinton had put on 25 million.
...a record number of homes were being foreclosed, 25% of them due to medical related expenses that robbed people of their savings and equity
...home prices were at a ridiculous low
...the stock market had tanked and an estimated $20 Trillion of people's wealth had been "lost"
...my wife's Kaiser was $950 a month before Obamacare, it was $450mo the first year and went down every year to $350mo until 2017, when it went back to $900, and now it is $950

There is more, but the point has been made that the economy of the country was in the crapper

By Obama's second or third month jobs started being put on rather than lost. Obama had a straight run of jobs put on of at least 85 months, and we saw jobs growth the whole eight years, when he left office unemployment was at 5%. Trump didn't turn anything around, things kept doing what they were doing and would have continued to do so under anyone.

Homes were at highs, very few were in inventory, and those selling homes were often seeing them sell in a few weeks for more than the asking price. Home prices have been going soft, and more are sitting on the market as people can't get their prices. Interest rates have been going up and this is a trend that will keep going. The housing market was better when Obama left than it is now.

The stock market during Obama's eight years showed a solid steady growth and stability, upset at one point by the GOP pressuring a government shutdown. Prior to Obama leaving the market had been setting new all time record highs. Once again it continued that growth, Trump did nothing that turned what was going on around. Trump did on the other hand do all of the things that makes markets nervous and unstable, that instability is still evident, and it would be very surprising if Trump escapes a full on crash.

So, indicators show eight years of slow stable growth and stability under Obama, we could have use more of that.

All I want from you since you coined the phrase about how horrible the eight years of Obama were to the country, is tell us what made them so bad? What has Trump done that turned anything around except hurt healthcare and other things?

The divide was there before Obama and republicans can't be blamed for it all.

Obama spat on the military his first day and that set the tone. To deny he was r****t in many of his remarks and actions is like denying he's black.

Both parties betray their country. Yet people seem pretty content to let theirs do it while complaining about the other. I am all for liberals and conservatives keeping each other in check but liberalism has morphed into something unrecognizable and conservatism isn't the same either. JFK and RFK would want nothing to do with today's democrat party and I'm betting Reagan would be disgusted at the state of the republicans.

I see nothing changing next e******n. No leaders have emerged from the democrats. No people of integrity.

Yet again, you deflect from being previously absurd by stating Mueller's investigation was a fishing expedition and a waste of two years.

Insofar as this post of yours is concerned, we seem to agree on the Russian intent. However, you exhibit a degree of your ignorance by claiming my being "fine and dandy" with any collusion on Russia's part. I ask that you please point out the specific basis for such a foolish assertion.

Good luck with that.

The Steele Dossier was crucial in getting the FISA warrants for the Obama Administration to spy on the Trump campaign. With out that the Mueller Investigation never happens. Hillary paid for this bit of Russian disinformation. That makes it fine and dandy.

I am impressed that you actually read the details and questioned me on my post. I do that all the time to liberals on OPP and it invariably shuts them up. I am not used to having it done to me. I have gotten quite lazy over the years arguing with Liberal bots who cannot think. Should I be scared of you ? I don't know yet. Anyway, thank you for the intelligent conversation.

You've pretty much capsulized my disappointment. Our rare exchanges have generally proved to be both somewhat intriguing and respectful. Insofar as your stated 'concern' : Not even my grandkids or great-grandkids are scared of me. Instead, they see me as easy pickin's...especially for ice cream and candy.

BTW, I see it only as a matter of semantics, but FBI Director Wray stated that he did not see any of the agency's actions on the matter as "spying". And, as you know, President Trump appointed Wray.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/sports/christopher-wray-on-if-the-fbi-engages-in-spying-thats-not-the-term-i-would-use/vi-AAB28jp

Enjoy your evening, S-O-W.

I should not admit this, but I am slowly losing interest in the whole Russian Collusion mess. The only thing that keeps it in my focus is that Democrats still want to use it to damage My Boy Trump so I must force myself to care. The problem is that I am losing memory of all of the various details of how this all started.

I realize you disagree. I still get back to the point that this was strictly a political maneuver by Democrats. To me it is the fruit of the poisonous tree. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree

The FBI uses at least in part, the accusations contained in the Steele Dossier. That document has been legally shown to have falsehoods in it. Even though officials keep saying that the Dossier was not the primary source for the FISA Warrants, I think any decent lawyer could argue that it taints everything from those warrants to the Mueller Indictments and convictions. Therefore if I was a lawyer for Gen. Flynn and the rest of Mueller's victims I would seek to over turn the convictions, throw out future indictments, and smear the Democrats in the House of Representatives who will not let go of this. What do you think of my out house legalese ?

I realize you are not a legal expert, but maybe you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHCTaUFXpP8

I should not admit this, but I am slowly losing interest in the whole Russian Collusion mess. The only thing that keeps it in my focus is that Democrats still want to use it to damage My Boy Trump so I must force myself to care. The problem is that I am losing memory of all of the various details of how this all started.

I realize you disagree. I still get back to the point that this was strictly a political maneuver by Democrats. To me it is the fruit of the poisonous tree. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree

The FBI uses at least in part, the accusations contained in the Steele Dossier. That document has been legally shown to have falsehoods in it. Even though officials keep saying that the Dossier was not the primary source for the FISA Warrants, I think any decent lawyer could argue that it taints everything from those warrants to the Mueller Indictments and convictions. Therefore if I was a lawyer for Gen. Flynn and the rest of Mueller's victims I would seek to over turn the convictions, throw out future indictments, and smear the Democrats in the House of Representatives who will not let go of this. What do you think of my out house legalese ?

I realize you are not a legal expert, but maybe you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHCTaUFXpP8

I know a lot folks who do the motor home route. Not for me. I don't travel all that much, but when I do, I want at least a cheap motel room. Finding a place to park a motor home on my property and maintaining it are not how I want to spend my time or money.

I will say that about 15 years ago we got talked into going camping at a beautiful State Park. We had a good time, but we roughed it in a tent. I envied those in the campers. As I've aged tent camping has lost it's appeal. I always try to observe those around me. Being a non camper I was fascinated at the difference between the tent campers and the trailer campers. The camp ground seemed to be roughly 50-50. The tent campers tended to be younger, more fit, and poorer. The trailer folks were older and richer looking.

No for me, Nirvana is a first class Hotel room on the ocean. I lay out on the beach until I am done to a crispy brown. Then I go back to my room, eat lunch, watch a little TV, though at the shore it sucks, then to the pool, back to the room, and finally back to the beach. At night it is walk the boardwalk, find a good place to eat, then a bar, then walk the surf line almost half drunk, and then party back in the room. Next day repeat the first day.

I can shower off the salt and sand at any time. Back when my parents took us to the beach, we did not have that glorious luxury. It sounds like a small thing, but it isn't.

Although we love our motor home, and have used it much in the past, it is now more likely to be extra room for company as a guest house to our home. Since we retired to living on Lake Whitney, we are in a day-to-day camping set-up with an RV port and hook-ups in our backyard. The grandkids like staying in it while the older folks are in our home up front.

Most of our trips are now short rather than long road trips. I always take it for the 9th-12th of November for our Veteran's Day/USMC Birthday Brother's Bash. Other trips include my wife's favorite hangouts, the gambling casinos in Louisiana or Oklahoma. On cross-country trips, we often travel pre-planned routes that include casinos along the Gulf Coast or Mississippi River. Also, in the western U.S. Indian casinos, and of course, Reno & Las Vegas.

As far as the differences between 'primitive campers' and RV campers...you nailed 'em. Having all the luxuries of home at your disposal doesn't suck, and my wife wouldn't tolerate sleeping in a tent after twenty years of RV'ing. One thing I don't do is take the internet with us on the road. I rather enjoy not having to keep up with the madness of OPP or social media.

Like you, when I was a kid and young adult, we had to settle 'for roughing it' on camping trips. No more.
One other thing, I do not care for sand or salt water, much preferring the fresh water of ponds, lakes and rivers. I do not drink alcohol to any degree, but do enjoy hiking and exploring new areas and parks, both state and national.

The two National Parks we want to visit badly, but haven't, are Glacier in Montana and Acadia in Maine.

You sound like my Sister's family. Although she is a beech bum at heart like I am, having been deep fried in the same 1960s station wagon trips, her kids are definitely fresh water, mountain people. They h**e the salt and sand.

My outhouse theory is that you have to spend your childhood jumping waves and building sandcastles on the beech, otherwise you will always h**e the yuckyness of showering sand from your butt crack, and the salt off of the rest of your body. The cool thing about a week at the beech is, you come back with the cleanest body you will ever have in your life. Your feet and the rest of your body have the dirt and germs and dead skin sandblasted off, and the constant showers don't hurt either.

I am jealous of you RVers, but it is not for me. Ernest Borgnine of Mchales Navy TV show fame used to go around in a big bus to camping grounds until he was very old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3QQpS2QzA0