JediKnight

Joy - since you were not there and therefore could not know what is true or fiction - one would think you would at least give McCain credit for serving. In my opinion, having served, anyone who serves and becomes a POW is a hero -regardless of what those back home may think. We don't know the circumstances or why McCain did that broadcast. He may have been told "if you don't -we'll k**l all your comrades." The point here is -no matter how you spin it, McCain is still more of a 'military hero' than Trump could ever hope to be. period.

bggamers Loc: georgia

Because of the people who served when he did you want to know what kind of a record he has with those in the know ask them. Just like I have no respect for Jane Fonda who is a t*****r and should not even be allowed in this country after what she did during the Vietnam war

JoyV

I'm not comparing McCain to Trump. That was never the thrust of my comments. And though I wasn't there, his fellow POWs were. He gave the first broadcast before he even knew he would be going to the Hanoi Hilton, if he even knew of the existence of the place. So threatening to k**l his fellow POWs would have been meaningless. He was fed better (as his weight at release attests to) and not tortured. Other POWs were known to refuse any special treatment that all didn't receive.

Why did his fellow POWs call him songbird?
Why did the VietCong call him their Crown Prince?
Why did only 3 of the POWs have anything good to say about him?
Why did he weigh more than his fellow POWs, even ones who had been captured later than him so there stay was shorter?
Why did he make the broadcast in which he appeared to whole heartedly endorse what he was saying, unlike the wooden, stiff, forced looking confessions of some other POWs?
Why did he claim members of the US peace movement visited him, urged him to confess, and, when he refused, told his captors he had to be “straightened out in his thinking.”; while other POWs have a very different story to tell?
Why did he turn some of his fellow POWs in to their captors?
Why did he accuse other POWs, whose medical and physical conditions were far worse than his at time of release, of collaborating with the enemy?

Other McCain info which doesn't fit with the glowing accounts of him are that he graduated 899th out of 899 in his Naval Academy class.

That the plane he crashed in when captured was not the first he crashed. McCain joked about crashing three planes in an interview.
*On March 12, 1960, he crashed his AD-6 Skyraider in Corpus Christi Bay due to pilot error.
*During a training mission in December 1961, in southern Spain, McCain flew into electrical wires. He flew the damaged Skyraider back to the USS Intrepid aircraft carrier d**gging 10 feet of wire and having severed an oil line. This caused multiple power failures and created an international incident.
*On Nov. 28, 1965, he flew a T-2 trainer to a football game. On his way back he said the engine quit and he bailed out and the plane crashed. Investigation into the crash could not find a cause for engine failure.
*On Oct. 26, 1967: On his 23rd bombing mission over Vietnam, McCain’s A-4 Skyhawk jet was hit by a surface-to-air missile about 3,000 feet above Hanoi. A then-secret report by McCain’s squadron said aviators had learned to fly at 4,000 to 10,000 feet, to avoid missiles. McCain ignored the practice.

That he was at the root of an accident on his carrier which some say was linked to his incompetence which badly injured various soldiers, k**led some, and did a great deal of damage. McCain was in his F4-B Phantom on the deck of the carrier, USS Forrestal; when a missile fired from another fighter hitting a fuel source and causing flammable jet fuel to spill across the flight deck. He claims the missile, which passed close to his plane caused two bombs to drop from his plane which hit the flaming spreading fuel and exploded. He had managed to jump out of his jet and race off the deck before they hit the deck. The explosion triggered a chain-reaction of explosions that k**led 134 sailors and injured 161. At the time, Forrestal was engaged in combat operations in the Gulf of Tonkin, during the Vietnam War. The ship survived, but with damage exceeding $72 million, not including the damage to aircraft. Of the 73 aircraft aboard the carrier, 21 were destroyed and 40 were damaged. McCain was uninjured! The accident was later attributed to an electrical problem. But the missile passing close to his jet could not have caused bombs to fall. They had to have done so due to the pilot's actions. McCain was uninjured!

And I won't even get in to his being a RINO and supporting the Democrats over Republicans in Congress, and undermining his own party nominee to the point of participating in the use of a phony dossier against his president!!!!

I served my country. My injuries were in no way due to goofing off or ignoring the advice and practices of others more knowledgeable. I am partially paralyzed; have episodic blindness; and until the right medication was found, had a dozen grand mal seizures a day with unknown number of petit mals. I spent many years in a wheelchair (until I quit physical therapy and trained a dog to help me walk), and could not drive for many years. AND my son was born with multiple birth defects as was my grandson. But McCain is a hero! Do I sound bitter? I suppose I do, but not with the army! I volunteered and accept that doing so led to my disabilities. But it really gets to me when someone like McCain gets accolades other truly deserving veterans should but are discounted.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/08/28/john-mccain-risky-history-navy-pilot/1119237002/

https://www.t***hdig.com/articles/investigating-john-mccains-tragedy-at-sea/

JoyV

AGREED!!!!!

JediKnight

Joy: why did McCain remain a prisoner when he was able to get released being the son of a Navy Admiral? And more importantly, why does any of what you posted matter? The man is dead and no longer a threat to anyone. I'm not republican, but I can respect the fact that he served. You support Trump, a true coward -which is bad enough, but then you slam and criticize McCain, who at least served voluntarily. Would you like to dreg up all the possible "cowards" in history and belittle them -to what end and for what purpose?

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

"I'm not republican" - JediKnight

A reason you defend McCain?
He would have made a fine Democrat also.
A CFR member that toed the line for the NWO establishment/elitists.

JediKnight

Eagle: it is not so much McCain that I am defending -but more so the principal behind "giving credit where credit is due." As I said, I am not republican, nor did I agree with many of the things Mc Cain supported. However, as a US Navy combat veteran, I respect the fact that the man did voluntarily serve, was captured, and as a POW endured torture. I was not there, so I cannot attest to "the broadcast" and what may have precipitated it. I will not slam or bash someone for something that I see no point in bashing them for. The man is dead and gone. It would make more sense to bash Andy Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, or George for their "bad acts" and support of s***ery in my opinion.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

"It would make more sense to bash Andy Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, or George for their "bad acts" and support of s***ery in my opinion." - JediKnight

Well at least we have your opinion,Jedi.
So much for seeing the forest from the trees.

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Mentally, Jed is on the massa's plantation pick'en cotton and tot'en them bales.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

Is Jed a Jerk?
That reminds me:
https://youtu.be/Y4HF6hfIQFg

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Bravo!!! When you kick ass you leave no stone unturned...!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

Just an outstanding reply, Joy and I Thank You for your service.... I am sorry to read of your injuries and wish the very best always.. Seems shallow but said from my heart!!!

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Navin Johnson...

Airforceone

(YES EVERYBODY IS ENTITLED TO THERE OWN OPINION BUT YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN FACTS)

proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA

YES I AM,AF1!!!

JoyV

NONE of the POWs took the early releases offered. They abided by the rule that POWs will be released in the order in which they were captured.

All U.S. military personnel are required to memorize and abide by the Code of Conduct for POWs. It says in pertinent part:

*I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

*If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

*I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.


The U.S. military chain of command is in effect among POWs. McCain was not the highest ranking POW in North Vietnam. He was ordered by his senior POW to NOT accept the early release!!!!

Why does anything I posted matter? It matters to many veterans!!!! It matters because while other soldiers abide by their oaths in the most horrendous conditions, and give their lives for our country and our fellow soldiers; he made anti-American statements and painted his fellow soldiers and fliers as war criminals! Go to your nearest VA hospital and ask veterans in making such statements matter! Ask them if keeping their oath matters! What McCain did has nothing to do with Trump. Soldiers to not take an oath which says it is only in effect if all other Americans also serve. Trump not serving in no way exonerates what Songbird McCain did! And before you say that he couldn't help it because he was tortured, he had no evidence of torture but his fellow POWs were definitely tortured. Yet they made no propaganda broadcasts claiming US soldiers were war criminals!

Here is what Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain have to say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g