It’s time to stop the c*****e c****e debate (Page 5): Indeed, it is unfortunate that the lessor of two evils is a narcissistic sociopath! It would seem that neither political party has...

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Indeed, it is unfortunate that the lessor of two evils is a narcissistic sociopath! It would seem that neither political party has of, by, or for the needs of the American people as their platform!

JoyV

Airforceone wrote:

Okay let’s agree to disagree that C*****e c****e i... (show quote)

While the idea of companies powered by renewables sounds great, it isn't so simple. Some of the questions to ask is;

1) Does it have large hidden f****l f**l outlays such as biofuels grown with fertilizer, f****l f**l run equipment, electric cars run on coal generated electricity, or the amount of f****l f**ls used to create electric cars vs gasoline cars? Estimated production of an average gasoline operated car will involve emissions amounting to the equivalent of 5.6 tonnes of CO2, while for an average electric car, the figure is 8.8tonnes

2) Can it be used in large scale for cities. Where will acres of solar panels or wind turbines be put to power eastern cities?

3) Is the subsidy benefiting any but the wealthy? Tesla gets hundreds of millions in taxpayer subsidies to make green cars which they sell for exorbitant prices to the wealthy to make high profits for multimillionairs. Is that where our taxpayer's dollars should go? But hey. It's GREEN!!!!

4) How much energy can be gained for the subsidized money? Mar 23, 2018 - A study by the University of Texas projected that U.S. energy subsidies per megawatt hour in 2019 would be $0.5 for coal, $1- $2 for oil and natural gas, $15- $57 for wind and $43- $320 for solar.

A few failed or failing subsidized green companies.

Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)
Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)

*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2012/10/18/president-obamas-taxpayer-backed-green-energy-failures/

JoyV

Airforceone wrote:

Basically New G***n E****y Deal is mordern ideas such as renewable energy and resource efficiency. This new idea does not even deserve the time to debate by republicans they just go on the attack to protect the f****l f**l companies.

What 30% tax break are you talking about. How did we get from 19% to 30% and all it has done is widen the income ine******y and blown up the deficit. Trump is trying to eliminate subsidies for g***n e****y, but subsidies oil, Gas and coal. That’s called Socialism. That is a fiasco when we subsidies oil, Gas, and coal that is creating billions of dollars in health cost. Like I said let’s not even look at the effects on climate.

So a Solar power is nothing but an array of mirrors that reflect the sunlight and convert to heat for heating water. The steam from the boiling water drives a turbine which generates power. How innovative

So creating clean energy we minimize health risks, slow the effects of c*****e c****e creating massive amounts of jobs, stabilizing fuel cost (FUEL IS FREE) is a disaster to our economy. Can you imagine if this country invested in just solar power and we were able to compete with China just on the sale of solar panels. China is producing almost 70% of the solar panels around the world now. That would be a boom to our economy. New factories opening creating good paying jobs.

So where are your negatives of utilizing free fuel and growing our economy.

I think we can all agree that c*****e c****e is a natural event but by burning oil it is accelerating c*****e c****e. It’s polluting our air, Streams, Lakes and oceans. So forget c*****e c****e just the concentrate on pollution, Heath and job creation, we both know creating high paying jobs generates revenue to the Fed.

Where is this a disaster to our economy. We are already doing G***n E****y investing in renewables and what your saying has no factual basis. It’s a boom to the economy that Trump takes credit for while he is pushing for more coal fired power plants creating health risks, polluting our air and water.

So the new g***n e****y plane according to you does not even deserve to be debated and investigating become your perception is a disaster to our economy (I DISAGREE ITS A DISASTER TO OUR ENVIRONMENT) polluting air, Water, soil, creating billions in health cost, what is the cost to the EPA for clean up of these pollutants. What is the cost for cleanup of pipeline breaks, oil leaks into our oceans these are disasters.

(THE FUEL IS FREE HOW CAN ANYBODY BE AGAINST FREE FUEL)

Basically New G***n E****y Deal is mordern ideas s... (show quote)

Have you actually READ the green new deal bill? It not only calls for a 100% moratorium on f****l f**l use within 10 years; it links c*****e c****e with anti-labor and loss of collective bargaining power; with r****m, and with sexism. It calls for medicare for all, nutritional supplements for all, free higher education for all, and open borders.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-resolution/109/text

JoyV

Airforceone wrote:

No question I will respond with respect as long as I am being respected for doing the reseach and gaining my perception of these issues facing this country. We both know that (PERCEPTION IS ONE THING) (BUT IS IT REALITY) and I believe with common sense debates we can obtain reality.

Now as for my feelings towards Trump is because I have known Trump for 35 years. I have seen first hand what that man has done to so many people and the number of people he has screwed and companies he has put out of business with all his phony bankruptcies. How can anybody not look at the facts when you go bankrupt 5 times how many people did not get paid paid for goods and services provided to the Trump organization. That’s why he files for bankruptcy it’s called protection against creditors because he would be bogged down with lawsuits, contractors, employees that he owes money to from potential lawsuits. We are talking about Trump Organization that cannot borrow funds from any US banks and years ago Trump was asked if you can’t borrow money in the US how does your corporation stay in business. Now in his own words (THE RUSSIANS AND SAUDI’s ARE ONLY TO HAPPY TO HELP) This man has been divorced twice for c***ting on his spouse, he has had numerous affairs while being married. He had an affair with a porno star while his wife was at home with a 5 week old infant and used campaign funds as hush money. Trump has been a pathological liar his entire life, he is a s**m artist and he s**mmed his way into the White House.

I have asked this question on many occasions what has Donald Trump done to MAGA. I still did not receive an answer.
He brags about how a generated a great economy (NO HE INHERITED A GROWING ECONOMY) He brags about generating the lowest black unemployment no what policy or legislation has he ever done to generate work for the minorities in this country.
It’s a typical Trump move take credit for everything positive in this country and play the blame game for everything negative. He campaigned on balancing the budget, cutting the deficit in half in two years, generating new trade agreements ( BUT HIS SUPPORTERS BELIEVE A WORLD TRADE WAR IS THE WAY TO ACCOMPMISH TRADE BALANCE) look at the mess he created with the border he promised a wall that Mexico would pay for now it’s a wall that he wants the American tax payer to foot the bill, he went to a government shutdown to a national emergency because congress did not give him the funds, he has been holding this country hostage over a barrier that CBP, Homeland Security has indicated its not needed and those funds would be better untilized in other areas of technological advances to protect the border. National emergency our National Emergency Director’s testified before Congress there is no emergency on the Southern border and Trump made the comment they are wrong and they should all go back to school. I believe Putin and disregarded our entire National Intel community. The lies about his campaign staff not invovled with Russians, 19 of his campaign staff and over 100 meetings with Russians all denied by Trump he did know about these meetings how can that possibly be. I could go on and on about this guy in the White House when he was proven wrong for over 8,000 lies and misinformation. I just wonder what is going to happen to the Republican Party for protecting a guy that will fire you, denigrate you, denigrate your family, denigrate our NATO Allies, if you disagree with him. This man is in his 70’s and he is not going to change.

No question I will respond with respect as long as... (show quote)

You have known him for 35 years? Then you must know the names of the people he has given free housing to. The names of those he paid for their or their kids college educations? Did you ever walk the streets of the NYC ghettos before and after he provided community improvements? What were his hobbies? Did he ever have a favorite pet?

I can't say I knew him, but have a friend with personal experience of him. Her father was a fireman who died doing his job. He put her through college where she studied engineering and physics. He then gave her a job where she excelled. She has high praise for him, what he did, and how he treats people individually for what they've done not what group they belong to.

JoyV

Airforceone wrote:

Well maybe that is an area where solar panels will not be installed. Don’t forget these Solar and wind power have storage capacity so stop acting like a fool and study how these systems work.

So let’s get you educated not sure that can happen because gun tooting ignorant Texans are very difficult when they get there education from a White House freak who also doen’t Know how solar and wind power work. Case in point that i***t stood at CPAC and made a stupid statement (HEY HONEY IS THE WIND BLOWING TODAY I WANT TO WATCH TV) CPAC showed the same ignorance to facts as you do.

Solar panels use energy from daylight as opposed to sunlight to produce electricity so these panels do not need direct sunlight. So if it’s cloudy they still work. Is that simple enough for you to understand.

So let’s get a little technical because Texas ignorance as science deniers is a big problem in this country. It’s called photons which operate in daylight which is converted by solar panels cells to produce electricity. Actually heat from the sun has no effect on the production of electricity it’s natural light. I am trying not to complicate how the whole process works
Because your a red neck r****t that denies science.

Wind farms are located in areas where studies have been done where winds of 7 MPH are constant. Preferably they want 12 MPH and a wind turbine will operate at 100% capacity.

Most wind farms are located at higher elevation where winds are constantly blowing. Deserts are another area where winds blow constantly, offshore wind farm are great because the winds are constant.

I could get into the science of these areas but red neck r****t Texans are science deniers. Not saying your ignorant or r****t or a denier but you sure are ignorant to facts.

Now since your sarcastic comment that the wind was not blowing and it was cloudy you sound just as ignorant to facts as Trump. Now I lived on Top of a mountain at a sky resort a few years back and there were wind mills on top of the mountain I was there for 5 years and 24/7 for 5 years those windmills never stopped turning. Well they did when a maintainance guy had to service them.

So my TV time was never interrupted. Poor Donald

So I hope this helps Archie and I do like you because I will take the time to educate you as you spend your time avoiding the topics and teach me proper English which I thank you for.

Well maybe that is an area where solar panels will... (show quote)

Science deniers? You mean like denying that sun spot activity has a greater impact on climate than human activity? That our entering a deep solar minimum has begun to be seen in ice caps expanding and thickening for the last few years? How about that a glob of cells does not have a heart beat and brain waves and feels pain? Or lets take a recent simple one that physics doesn't matter if you want to build a train to Hawaii?

JoyV

EconomistDon wrote:

THAT statement fully displays your ignorance about... (show quote)

JoyV

Common_Sense_Matters wrote:

Yes, you are correct, most modern solar panels do work in the way you mentioned though there are others that were designed to heat water for household usage and I do recall either hearing or seeing of a setup where reflective panels were used to reflect the heat of the sun onto a centralized unit and I think it was to boil water, possibly in the way AF1 suggested, my memory is poor so recalling the specifics is fairly rough.

As for the GND and the claim that air travel would be eliminated entirely, There are other forms of fuel for internal combustion engines NOT based on f****l f**ls, I am fairly certain air travel elimination was never part of the GND, but rather converting aircraft to bio fuels or perhaps hydrogen. There are entire fleets of vehicles that run entirely on methanol and have since at least as far back as the 1990's. There ARE alternatives to f****l f**ls that may be used to maintain the ability to continue providing for air travel with or without f****l f**ls. as for completely eliminating CO emissions, the only internal combustion fuel that I know of that has a zero CO emission level is hydrogen. Any fuel based on any carbon based substance will produce CO as far as I know.

As for health care in the GND, yes, many employers do offer healthcare plans where they pay a portion of the premiums, that can be carried over in any form of universal healthcare plan we end up with, just like withholding taxes a new withholding for the healthcare costs. The employer still pays a portion, the other portion comes from the employee. If done right, the premiums could be comparable to what they are currently paying or even possibly less as insurance companies require a profit, the government would not require a profit margin.

As for the claim that she wants to "pay people for doing nothing at all" I would like to hear from the source whether she really means that she wants something like that actually included in such a package and if so, I would hope that those negotiating what actually stays in the bill would eliminate such an aspect. We all know that bills rarely make it through congress unaltered.

Also, many of those ambitions included in the GND are just that, ambitions, the GND is non-binding and if we fail to make it all happen within the given time frame, there is no "self destruct" method in the GND that will wipe us from the planet if we fail, other than perhaps c*****e c****e doom. It is just merely an ambitious set of goals for us to do our best to achieve.

All in all, I am for our lawmakers examining such a thing closer and see what we may be interested in attempting.

Yes, you are correct, most modern solar panels do ... (show quote)

You do realize that the alternative fuels you mentioned for air travel use f****l f**ls to create?

Hydrogen may have zero CO2 emissions, but use f****l f**ls in production.
https://sepuplhs.org/high/hydrogen/hydrogen.html

Methanol is highly toxic as well as needing energy to produce which in larger quantities is made by using f****l f**ls.

Biofuels use more f****l f**ls to produce than they save in their use.

And wind, solar, and nuclear will not do to power airflight!

Common_Sense_Matters

JoyV wrote:

You do realize that the alternative fuels you ment... (show quote)

Hydrogen requires no fuel to generate, I have built hydrogen fuel cells before and produced plenty of hydrogen WITHOUT the help of f****l f**ls, perhaps a but more research might help you out some.

Methanol?

Wikipedia wrote:

Methanol occurs naturally in the human body and in... (show quote)

Again, maybe a bit more research could help you some here too, by the way, Methanol would be much more appropriate for air travel than Hydrogen, the number of hydrogen generators to power air flight would require substantial space and if the generators failed during flight....

Biofuels? There are many ways to produce the heat needed in the production of biofuels, f****l f**ls are not the only way to produce that heat, try being a bit more open minded.

As for the other suggestions you made for possible energy sources for air travel, you missed one foolish consideration, hydro power plant. Regardless, only a fool would consider those possibilities. I never suggested any of those for air travel, but you did.

JoyV

waltmoreno wrote:

Wonderful. Let the free market decide what’s viable.
We don’t need some pointy headed bureaucrat determining the fate of electric cars.
Solyndra and other similar Obama-era fiascos should have taught all but the most hard-headed c*****e c****e zealots that the free market is the best guide to the future.

Agreed!!!!!

waltmoreno

Airforceone wrote:

No question I will respond with respect as long as I am being respected for doing the reseach and gaining my perception of these issues facing this country. We both know that (PERCEPTION IS ONE THING) (BUT IS IT REALITY) and I believe with common sense debates we can obtain reality.

Now as for my feelings towards Trump is because I have known Trump for 35 years. I have seen first hand what that man has done to so many people and the number of people he has screwed and companies he has put out of business with all his phony bankruptcies. How can anybody not look at the facts when you go bankrupt 5 times how many people did not get paid paid for goods and services provided to the Trump organization. That’s why he files for bankruptcy it’s called protection against creditors because he would be bogged down with lawsuits, contractors, employees that he owes money to from potential lawsuits. We are talking about Trump Organization that cannot borrow funds from any US banks and years ago Trump was asked if you can’t borrow money in the US how does your corporation stay in business. Now in his own words (THE RUSSIANS AND SAUDI’s ARE ONLY TO HAPPY TO HELP) This man has been divorced twice for c***ting on his spouse, he has had numerous affairs while being married. He had an affair with a porno star while his wife was at home with a 5 week old infant and used campaign funds as hush money. Trump has been a pathological liar his entire life, he is a s**m artist and he s**mmed his way into the White House.

I have asked this question on many occasions what has Donald Trump done to MAGA. I still did not receive an answer.
He brags about how a generated a great economy (NO HE INHERITED A GROWING ECONOMY) He brags about generating the lowest black unemployment no what policy or legislation has he ever done to generate work for the minorities in this country.
It’s a typical Trump move take credit for everything positive in this country and play the blame game for everything negative. He campaigned on balancing the budget, cutting the deficit in half in two years, generating new trade agreements ( BUT HIS SUPPORTERS BELIEVE A WORLD TRADE WAR IS THE WAY TO ACCOMPMISH TRADE BALANCE) look at the mess he created with the border he promised a wall that Mexico would pay for now it’s a wall that he wants the American tax payer to foot the bill, he went to a government shutdown to a national emergency because congress did not give him the funds, he has been holding this country hostage over a barrier that CBP, Homeland Security has indicated its not needed and those funds would be better untilized in other areas of technological advances to protect the border. National emergency our National Emergency Director’s testified before Congress there is no emergency on the Southern border and Trump made the comment they are wrong and they should all go back to school. I believe Putin and disregarded our entire National Intel community. The lies about his campaign staff not invovled with Russians, 19 of his campaign staff and over 100 meetings with Russians all denied by Trump he did know about these meetings how can that possibly be. I could go on and on about this guy in the White House when he was proven wrong for over 8,000 lies and misinformation. I just wonder what is going to happen to the Republican Party for protecting a guy that will fire you, denigrate you, denigrate your family, denigrate our NATO Allies, if you disagree with him. This man is in his 70’s and he is not going to change.

No question I will respond with respect as long as... (show quote)

Sorry Airfarce, you've got zero credibility. When you repeat that tired ol' canard that Trump's red hot economy is the result of him "inheriting" it, you've crossed the line into delusion. I hope you keep shouting it from the rooftop cuz all you'll do is convince undecideds to v**e Trump in 2020.
I don't have time nor inclination to respond to your other rubbish. Suffice it to say I never thought I was v****g for a spiritual advisor. I was v****g against Hillary. But the Trump turnaround has made me a die-hard believer. And the more he's attacked the stronger my support for him.
Right now the Dem's platform for 2020 seems to be "I'm against Trump!" Oh, that and for infanticide, 70% tax on the rich, Medicare and free college for all, Green New Deal, no cows farting, etc. Bring it on. Trump will win in a landslide in 2020.

redpill Loc: Oregon - not PDX

Airforceone wrote:

Okay let’s agree to disagree that C*****e c****e i... (show quote)

Lost me due to the insults in the second sentence.

redpill Loc: Oregon - not PDX

waltmoreno wrote:

Sorry Airfarce, you've got zero credibility. When ... (show quote)

Bravo

badbob85037

Airforceone wrote:

What insults are you taking about. I thought that was suppose to be the way it’s done Trump talks like that continuously to get his point across to his ignorant base insult on top of insult nick names. I am sorry but I am just using Trump language.

Hope I didn’t offend you

I don't mind offending you. I'm running 3 hydrogen cells on my truck but not because anything these g****l w*****g i***ts say. I do it so I'm not feeding the greedy oil companies. So what have you done to save your false god, mother earth?

redpill Loc: Oregon - not PDX

JoyV wrote:

While the idea of companies powered by renewables ... (show quote)

Well asked, and documented.

You did forget one other itty bitty detail. The batteries that are efficient enough to run electric cars use a huge amount of cobalt which is currently mined by children in the Congo. Thus the Green New Deal will be built on the backs of child labor.

EconomistDon

waltmoreno wrote:

Bingo!
More random thoughts.
If eliminating the evil of c*****e c****e is the objective, obviously the entire planet should be on board, no? After all other land masses contribute to the problem. And less industrial societies contribute far more to pollution per capita than more developed societies. After all nobody wants to do business with known overt polluters.
Why is it then that the US is expected to contribute vastly more to combatting the scourge of c*****e c****e than proportion would dictate? To the point of wrecking our economy. Cuz in the overall big picture of the planet, our contribution isn’t going to make that much of a difference.
As for renewable energy sources wind and solar, being able to compete with f****l f**ls, that’s a pipe dream. Wind and solar are way, way behind in the amount of energy they can produce than burning f****l f**ls. It’s no contest. Not even close!
And to get very big technical, f****l f**ls are actually renewable. Oil, coal, and natural gas are made up of hydrocarbon chains of varying lengths which came from decaying organisms that continues to form today. Plants and animals are all composed of hydrocarbons which over millennia become f****l f**ls. So today’s forests are tomorrow’s oil, coal and natural gas.
As for Trump savagely attacking the left, I don’t see it. Assume that one is an undecided fence straddler, neither hard right nor hard left. Trump’s speeches wouldn’t offend such a person. I know many former never-Trumpers, like myself, who, when confronted with the choice of Hillary or Trump, held my nose and v**ed Trump. Hillary was already a known quantity - a bridge too far.
If anyone has been savagely attacked since e******n night, it’s been Trump. Nonstop. Relentless. I think Trump will only gain more support because of the unceasing, unwarranted attacks on him by the dug-in left. It really doesn’t help their cause with the undecideds. If anything, it pushes the undecided into the Trump tent.
So let the unhinged left rant on. All it’s doing is creating more support for Trump.

Bingo! br More random thoughts. br If eliminating ... (show quote)

Thanks Walt. You are a great example of the independent middle who v**ed for Trump because Democrats ran the most h**eful, corrupt, and incompetent candidate of our lifetime. I didn't have to hold my nose for Trump; I felt that his brilliant business mind was needed to fix the nation's economic ills. I am thrilled that his well honed negotiation sk**ls are reshaping foreign relations in our favor. After decades of a stranglehold on our factory sector, China and other Pacific rim countries are conceding. And we may finally get peace on the Korean peninsula. Other presidents, especially Obama, were too afraid to approach North Korea.

And I have been saying much the same as you about Democrats digging their graves with all these h**eful investigations. RussiaGate will go down as the most expensive, h**eful witch hunt in the nation's history. On top of Mueller's investigation, we had a House investigation and a Senate investigation. All three came up with nothing. Yet Democrats in the House are lining up 81 people for interrogation to investigate Trump further. What a fiasco. If the media were honest and unbiased, they would shame Democrats to the max, but they support the attacks on Trump. This is unbelievable, and will push many more people off the fence toward Trump.