permafrost Loc: Minnesota

the Bible is full of contradictions. I know that you can find verses which seem to support your POV.

I have stated how I feel or have tried to do so..

This is one set that you have likely heard of.. I will not enter a verse for verse debate. this is the limit for my input on this subject today..




The verses most on point when it comes to a******n are Exodus 21:22-25 which state:

22. And should men quarrel and hit a pregnant woman, and she miscarries but there is no fatality, he shall surely be punished, when the woman’s husband makes demands of him, and he shall give [restitution] according to the judges’ [orders]. 23. But if there is a fatality, you shall give a life for a life, 24. an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot. 25. a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise.

The woman is not k**led in the passage. Only the fetus dies in the encounter. The resulting punishment for the miscarriage is a mere fine. The Bible continues with declaring that had the woman died the death penalty would be imposed under the principle of a “life for a life.” If the fetus was considered a life then the death penalty would be imposed under the principle of a “life for a life” but since a fine is imposed it is understood that the fetus is not considered a life. From this it is clearly understood that a fetus is not considered a full human life, otherwise the punishment would be death under the subsequently enumerated literal biblical principle of lex talionis (‘eye for an eye’).

Do you think the Bible would proscribe a monetary punishment for the k*****g of a human being? The Bible does not even deem the act of wrongfully causing a miscarriage as criminal. It’s obvious that based on a literal reading of this passage, the Bible does not view a fetus as a full human life or a******n as murder.

It is also noteworthy that as early as Genesis 2:7, the Bible states that life begins at birth, declaring that God “breathed into his [Adam’s] nostrils the soul of life, and man became a living soul.” The verse implies that until Adam took his first breath he was not considered a living being.

Furthermore, you can scour the Bible with a fine-toothed comb, yet you will not find any passage that describes a prohibition or penalty for a woman who chooses to terminate her pregnancy. Not a single verse yet the anti-a******n movement continues to declare, in the name of God, that a******n is murder. It seems that God left out the prohibition of a******n or perhaps does not consider a fetus a full human life. I’ll let you decide.

son of witless

No I will not argue religion with you. I will argue what makes something human. I will argue legalities and non religious morals. There has got to be a different point where a fetus is a human being rather than simply being born. I can take your arguments for a******n and use them to make the case for infant murder.

We would all be horrified if we watched a video where someone came into a hospital or a Mother's home. and k**led a newborn baby. Why are we horrified ? We are horrified because we recognize that baby as a human being. It has the same rights as you and me. We are even more horrified when a mother k**ls her own baby. How could she do it, but it happens.

Under current law a woman can get a very late term a******n because her pregnancy is causing mental anguish. That can be the only reason. Not that the pregnancy is threatening her physical health or the baby is dead, deformed, severely unhealthy. So this woman can k**l an 8 or even 9 month fetus inside of her because of mental anguish, yet 2 minutes later if she does it, we call it homicide, even if she is crazy.

What if she delivers the baby prematurely and it is doing fine, and then because of mental anguish she k**ls it ? Maybe it was a 7 month fetus, but he got out of her so now he got rights, but if he stays inside he is in mortal danger for 2 more months ?

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

It is an ass a nine leap to move from a late term a******n to infant k*****g...

Nothing that I said would indicate I would even consider such a poor interpretation of any law of the land.


mental anguish would be a Dr issue, may call for drug treatment, Valium of other sedatives.. not a whim and a sudden a******n..

in such a case, the delivery of the child would be a very high consideration.. I think that sedation of the mom and finish the delivery, then treat the mom..

In no hospital or clinic in this nation would a newborn baby be k**led on a mental anguish issue of the mother.

The living infant by law is required to get full life saving care from the facility, just as anyone else who was in that hospital or clinic.

I also know for a fact that neither the Va or the NY law changes make that a possibility..

If you think for a few minutes, a doctor would not delver the baby. makes me think you have never been in a delivery room.. Got kids?

I know that my being a left wing nut and you a right wing nut , we may surprise each other with what we consider possible outcomes... but how you ever got this idea of a couple minutes resulting in the k*****g of any newborn child makes be wonder just who gave you this thought line..

It is absolutely the dumbest damn thing any trump team member told you.. it is impossible.. stop believing it...

son of witless

" It is an ass a nine leap to move from a late term a******n to infant k*****g..."

Why ???? The development of the baby can be the same. A 7 or 8 month premie in an incubator has rights as a human being, but an 8 and half month fetus swimming inside her mother has a bounty on her head. If Mom is having a bad hair day, the unborn baby can be terminated, but if only she had been smart enough to cause trouble inside of her Mom so that Doc What's his Face decides to take her out early, she would still be alive.

I am still trying to get you to tell me what is the point where that Baby becomes a HUMAN BEING. You keep telling me it is when she leaves her Mother's Body. I just think that is an insane creation point. Okay baby, while inside of Mommy you have the legal status of a Cancer Tumor. You are merely a lump of cells. Once you break out of your prison cell, congratulations you are a human.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

Darn, fighting ice dams and snow after last nights messed up storm.. so I am late to the party...

A bounty on the head of an unborn child??? I do not even understand what you are talking about..

I thought this was in some way about late term a******ns and the law changes in Va and NY..

I remind you that late term a******ns are subject to a great deal of regulations.. they are never done because the mom had a bad hair day..

Do you think that a living person must be able to survive as an individual being?

Must be able to live outside the womb?

If a fetus can not breath and live on its own.. breath in the life from God, it is not yet a person.. in many peoples view.. including mine..

do you want a time of humanity? I can not give you one.. much difference on that point and also would be individually different from child to child..

While we have had some extreme early delivery survive.. maybe as early as 20 weeks, the more common estimate is around 6 months.. as around 24 weeks..

Setting the stone henge rocks ahead one hour for daylight saving....

son of witless

What was your take on the Philadelphia A******n Doctor Kermit Gosnell ?

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

he should not even be called a Dr.... nothing but a murdering monster..

however long he was sent to prison for, it is not long enough..

But if you think he was any kind of match for the normal Drs who work in these clinics, you are very wrong..

How about this young man?

son of witless

I am glad you condemned Gosnell. Please explain the picture.

Jakebrake Loc: Broomfield, CO

I'm still waiting for frosty to explain the pic as well~~~

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

darn, internet service was useless so far today.. just came back..

Yes, Gosnell was every thing we do not want..

The picture... well,,,, I know you have heard the comments that republicans only care about the fetus and never about the living child..

Not a serious picture.. only a barb..

The picture is actually from a war bombing/battle..

I think from one of the Syrian events where no one could prove which side did the shelling/bombing.

I find it to be a chilling photo, but it has little to do with our conversation.. just a quick post..

son of witless

I appreciate the quick explanation. Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who did not understand a posting.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

My se******ns are kinda quick, not always any connection to the post..


Live long and prosper.....LOL