permafrost Loc: Minnesota

The vast majority of A******ns are nothing more then removing tissue, a gob of "stuff" that can be equated to a heavy menstrual flow..

In some cases, nothing but a medication is needed to abort..

Why do you want a bedtime story??? A******n gives me the shudders and I do not like to talk about it..

As for the late term a******ns, which seem to be what you picture in your mind, they should only be based on extreme need. for the saving of the mother in my view but if deformity or high risk of genetic problems then the mother and father if he is in the picture would have to make that decision..

For comparison, back about 1980 or so, a friend of mine had a child his wife carried full term. to the day of birth.. it was born dead as a doctor had cautioned them.. I death was a devastation outcome and both failed to deal with it.. divorced a year or so later..

My friend claimed it would have been better to have ended it early and started over.. His opinion and i mention it only to show how devastating the death of the unborn affects anyone who must deal with it..

I also fail to see any bluff involved.. information is to be found as desired for every one..

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

My wife is an NNP and I hear stories like this almost daily but I wouldn't let an anecdotal story determine my beliefs in something. One could make the same conclusion about teen driving and would even find it more devastating to have a child lost in an MVC if there was even any doubt about teens driving. The point being, one could never know the effects of an a******n on a fragile marriage either.

I would also say that I have known women who had a******ns who never fully got over what they had chosen to do.

All THAT being said, I was very, very straight forward with my girls about the risks of sex. Pregnancy, whether to full term or aborted, is a life changer. It's much better to NOT GET PREGNANT and if that means NOT HAVING SEX then so be it. Teenagers and most folks actually get it if it is spelled out clearly for them.

I got in trouble when teaching HS many moons ago when the topic came up for discussion in a chemistry class, for some reason. I made the case clearly on the black board: No sex=no pregnancy. Unfortunately I forgot to erase it and a janitor reported what he saw to the principal. After being lectured for ten minutes, I asked the principal what pat of the chemical equation I had not gotten correct. I was told it was an inappropriate thing to tell HS students. Thus, the problem!!

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

I would say you were very correct in the lessons to your girls..

the High school incident seems out right stupid. By the school...

Teenagers should be told the t***h.. about actions of all sorts and the outcomes..

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

I thought you might agree with me on this. As for stupid things in HS's, this is the tip of the ice berg.

son of witless

" Why do you want a bedtime story??? A******n gives me the shudders and I do not like to talk about it.."

So you are not cold blooded about it. As the law stands a******ns ARE LEGAL for any reason.

" As for the late term a******ns, which seem to be what you picture in your mind, they should only be based on extreme need. "

Then you are against A******n on demand ? Right now the law says a woman can have an a******n right up to birth, with out proving " extreme need ", or do you have better information than me ?

" For comparison, back about 1980 or so, a friend of mine had a child his wife carried full term. to the day of birth.. it was born dead as a doctor had cautioned them.. I death was a devastation outcome and both failed to deal with it.. divorced a year or so later.. "

I am guessing that your story is to imply that a******ns are only done when there is a medical need ????

You leave out relevant details from your story. Did they know ahead of time the baby was definitely dead ? Did they believe the baby might be alive, and wanted to give it every chance ?

Ricktloml

Ricktloml

Dear friends and neighbors had tried for years to have a child. Sue has had 5 miscarriages already when she became pregnant. The doctors recommended that she have an a******n because of the threat to her health. She flat out refused. She had to stay in bed for almost the entire pregnancy, the baby was premature. Today their daughter is an accomplished woman that brought them the joy they hoped for.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

Yes, my story was poorly written.. They knew that odds were very high that the baby would be dead. Day or two before birth no heartbeat if I recall correctly..

But my point was that they were told about complications early on and that the should perhaps consider an a******n..

The comment that my friend made was that doing the a******n would have ended false hope for months and he felt they would both have handled the decision better than the dashing of hope after a full 9 months..

A lot of effort was put into trying to save the baby, weeks on bed rest only.. meds and exams. on and on.

No lesson to be learned but only an observation of one couple..

son of witless

You and I are arguing opposing viewpoints on a******n. That you told this story means that to you it was relevant to supporting your favorable view of unlimited a******n rights.

I think it does not support your view or mine. It is irrelevant. I am sad for this couple, and actually I do support a******n where the unborn baby has very little chance of living. Here is the however. I think in this case since it was not 100 % that the baby had no chance, the parents gave their child every possible chance for life. I see it as the same as if parents had a terminally child, but there was a 1 or 2 % chance of saving that child with some miracle treatment. Most parents would grasp at giving their child even a slim chance because miracles do happen.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

Just for the record,,, yes I support the right, within the law, for the mother or the couple to make the decision to have an a******n or not..

It is the RIGHT that they make the decision. not anyone else.. not me and not you..

i would be happy if a******ns never happened.. but they do, they always have and always will..

As for this couple, I suppose you are right, it has no relevance to the issue..

I think that as it seems so sad I will never forget it.. and the husband, I never talked to or even met the mother.. but he did feel that recovery would have been less difficult for them if the decision had been to end things and start over..

I think what you posted was exactly the way they looked at the situation, give every chance to have the child they wished for..

So they went with all the worry, hard effort, hope and prayers... But then they got nothing but huge amount of heart ache when all was said and done..

They could not get over it all and split....

i also think that as you said in the first part, if they had been told absolutely no hope for the child, they could of handled it,but for all the time it was never definitely no hope for the child survival.. they kept hoping...

son of witless

You seem conflicted. The law pretty much says there is no limit to A******n. To me it comes down to this. A woman about to give birth can legally k**l her child because of her mental stress. Okay fine. Well lets us say she gives birth two minutes later. She still has her stress, but now if she k**ls the kid she is a murderer.

That fact does not seem to bother you.

Jakebrake Loc: Broomfield, CO

Not at all for a******n advocates.

son of witless

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

i think you could say I am conflicted.. A******n is something I wish never happened, but I fully support the right of any woman to decide for herself and not have any demand pushed on her by anyone else..

so the right to an a******n on one hand, the right to make her own choice on the other hand..

overrules my opinion about her life..

I do not consider a fetus to be a person.. when the fetus can survive outside of the womb without help, then it becomes a person..

I also feel the time of becoming a person, gaining a soul is open to discussion..

some believe that God brings life and a soul with the first unaided breath..

that has a good deal of reason to me, but still open to debate..

the Bible supports this as well..

I do not wish to trade verse for verse with you, but support is found for this point of view..

Beleive you are upset by the VA and NY amendments to the state law on a******n.

they do not as you must believe, allow for murder of living babies..

Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon

Perm,..in the bible, it says that the life is in the blood...when does a unborn first have blood pumping through its body.?