jimpack123 Loc: wisconsin

Well I guess that we can disagree. ok

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Disagree is human. No problem with that.

jimpack123 Loc: wisconsin

I like it when we can disagree and be adults about it .Old Marine and I disagree all the time . but we keep it civil would like if you and I can be civil on this forum also

JoyV

Show your documentation of a criminal enterprise in the White House. All the accusations by the Meuller investigation are either of things from long before the campaign and unrelated to Trump or the campaign, or are the type of lies which would never under other circumstances be looked at twice. Or being accused of lying even though everything which can be found to document the detail backs up the story as being true.

1) You are correct on the issue of s***ery. Our Constitution was not handed down by a god. It written and endorsed by very knowledgeable men who history has shown for the most part to be very honorable. But they were still men, not gods, and so were fallible. There was a debate over whether or not s***ery would be accepted in the USA. When Jefferson penned those words, he believed s***ery would be abolished. But instead a compromise was reached putting the question off for a later time in the effort to get a constitution ratified by all states. What a reasonable person would do in looking back at history, is laud the good, identify the faults, and work on improving things for the future. Discarding the good along with the bad is a stupid and short sighted response.

2a) Yes they had automatic weapons. There were multiple types of machine guns as well as multi-fire long guns and hand guns. Of course we have more sophisticated weapons today. But our constitution did not spell out certain weapons which would be covered or excluded. No more than the "freedom of the press" is obsolete because we have forms of media far more advanced than any changes in weapons. But the principle remains the same regardless of the technology used is giving the news.

2b) No it was not written that the purpose of bearing arms was that the states should be able to form m*****as. Several of our founders wrote about what constituted the m*****a. They all stated in one wording or another that it was the whole body of citizens. Not that it was citizens organized by the state/s. EVERY US citizen is "the m*****a".

3a) The e*******l college had nothing to do with s***ery. The e*******l college reflected the results of the popular e******ns within each state. So it was based on the V****G populous. S***es had no right to v**e. So even though the numbers of s***es went into bolstering the number of congressmen in the House of Representatives for each state; they had no effect on the v****g populous. What the e*******l college DOES do is ensure that each sovereign state get a fair shot in a federal e******n. It is to ensure we remain a republic and NOT a democracy.

3b) Gerrymandering has zero effect on a p**********l e******n, or the e******n of Senators or House of Representatives. In fact, the e*******l college is unaffected by gerrymandering. Only local e******ns are effected by gerrymandering. This is because the e*******l college casts their v**es according to the combined popular v**es within districts and counties throughout the state. No matter where the district lines are drawn, since the total number of v**es throughout the state are added, it makes no difference. Now if your community has a problem of gerrymandering, it is your civic duty to do what you can to correct the issue.

3c) YES. V**er suppression was addressed. The solution chosen as being able to best minimize it was the e*******l college!

4) Have you actually READ our constitution???? Nowhere in it is our government given responsibility to provide anything but protection to the citizens and states. What our constitution does is BANS our government from infringing on the rights of the PEOPLE!!!! It bans our federal government from exerting powers over our citizenry and states which are not specifically enumerated to it. All other powers reside in the PEOPLE and the states. So there are two main ways our federal government is suppose to protect the people. The most important is by guaranteeing their rights. The second is by defending the nation against attack or invasion from outside.

Why not discuss on the open forum? What are you afraid of?

JoyV

Such short-sightedness! Tariffs on aluminum and steel give our steel industry a chance to get back up to par. Once they are producing in quantity again, the steel and aluminum prices of home produced quality metals will be lower than what could be bought from overseas. Especially if you use price comparisons of equal quality metals.

But the Feds threw a monkey wrench into the works by jacking up interest rates multiple times without cause. They are suppose to raise interest rates when run-away inflation becomes a problem. This wasn't the case. While Trump was trying to make it attractive for businesses to produce within the US, the Fed was doing what it could to drive them away.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Very well put. The very people who complain about the plight of the American manufacturing industry and its workers have no answer. Even Obama said those jobs aren’t coming back. Trump proved him wrong.

woodguru

[quote=Liberty Tree]As a Constitutional Conservative, but not a Republican these are the lessons I take away from the recent partial government shutdown.

1. President Trump will be seen as having caved to the Democrats on the SOTU address and the agreement to reopen the shutdown portions of government. His die hard supporters will try to spin it that he is being the bigger person, but the general public will not see it that way. They will see that he could have made this same deal weeks ago.[quote]
Yes on the could have gotten the same deal weeks ago...More importantly, looking at what happened and what could have been done, McConnell had a responsibility to do what the senate does, v**e on the bill the house passed over and let the results stand, it would have gone to the president, and the numbers of v**es would tell him whether it would withstand a veto or not. It is political suicide for a president to veto a override likely bill.
[quote]
2. The Democrats will be embolden by this and will think that than can hold out and get what they want. In the agreement to end the shutdown the Democrats got everything they wanted and Trump got nothing but empty promises.[quote]
This will do no such thing, democrats are going by the book as far as what the house is supposed to be doing in terms of acting as a check balance to the co equal partner, the executive branch. The GOP has refused to do the job, and it makes them look bad that dems are going to do what they refused to. Dems did their part with the budget that would have kept government open, they passed the same exact budget that the senate already passed once before that the president refused to sign, which by the way the senate could have forced him to sign or veto. And yes, by your standard a budget will be passed, and it is very unlikely to have Trump's wall money in it...over five billion for 200 miles of wall, which by the way is a number he pulled out of his butt. In people's mind Trump has lost if he doesn't get his wall even if there is ten billion for enhanced border security.
[quote]
3. The Democrats care more about winning and defeating Trump than they do the American people.[quote]
Again, dems passed a bill that the senate refused to even v**e on, which we know would have passed
[quote]
4. The Democrats are united and the Republicans are not.[quote]
Check your record there skippy, republicans have been in such tight lockstep that defectors have come down to two or three needed to break a GOP thing they want.
[quote]
5. Many who v**ed for Trump in the 2016 e******n did so not because of support for him but because they opposed Hillary so much. These now have far less confidence in him that he will not cave in the future and will deliver on his promises.[quote]
You just described low information ignorant v**ers, what Trump is doing to the country and them is what they deserve.
[quote]
6. The wall is far less likely to be built. The Democrats will offer some token funding to border security, but it will come at the price of keeping i******s already here permanently. They are seen as future Democrat v**ers.[quote]
Sections of wall will be built where they make sense, high tech electronics and surveillance are likely to be the new thing that makes more sense. Comprehensive studies and engineering plans need to be provided before throwing billions into walls that are a waste of money
[quote]
7. "Anchor babies" are here to stay.[quote]
We know that, tell us something we don't know, Trump violates the constitution if he tries to stomp on that.
[quote]
8. Any deal made in the next three weeks will heavily favor Democrats. Democrats do not fear another shutdown because with the help of the MSM and Trump's failure to make his case with the American people they know he will get the blame for another shutdown.[quote]
Of course, dems control the budget, ever hear that before?
[quote]
9. Democrats have stronger and bolder leadership in Congress than do Republicans.[quote]
What dems have is stronger more intelligent leadership, and eight years of the GOP walking all over the minority party...paybacks are a b***h, and so is Mistress Nancy. Republicans are not going to have the stomach for being in the minority, there are rules and Nancy knows them. Not to mention dems had enough dirty tricks pulled, those who put dems in the house expect to see the same thing we've been watching from the other side.

Actually, and it's really time for you to figure this out, they win the PR campaign because when the analysis comes down on what happened they are on the right side more often than not. When they object to GOP foul play the only one supporting it at the end of the day is FOX and the right.

woodguru

Why don't people on the right see that the senate refused to pass the same bill they already had before dumnuts said he wouldn't sign it...so what, it was still McConnell's job to pass the bill

JoyV

If only one side is reported, how can people judge which is the "right" side. So were they on the right side when they cried in outrage over the r****t teens wearing MAGA hats that the media accused of harassing a native American? Even when the evidence proved it was the kids being harassed, the media didn't make it right. And there are many left wing TV personalities still saying the teens were r****t and at fault because they didn't leave the place where they were scheduled to be picked up by bus. And of course the other r****t action was a smile.

Now where did your figure of 200 miles for the $5.7 billion come from? The southern border is just under 2000 miles long. Not all is feasible to fence. CBP estimates between 500 to 700 more border wall is needed. Currently we have 352.8 miles of primary or pedestrian fencing. And much of the 299.8 miles of vehicle barrier fencing will have to be replaced with a wall which pedestrians can't simply walk over. So the $5.7 would be to build approximately a thousand miles of fencing. Compare that with the $1 billion Obama spent on 53 miles of virtual border fence. At Obama's rate, the distance Trump want to pay $5.7 billion to build would have cost the taxpayers $18,867,924,528.30 if it hadn't been cancelled.

So who was on the right side? The Dems who did not think having taxpayers to pay over $18 trillion for Obama's border wall was too much? Or the ones who refuse to have taxpayers foot a $5.7 billion bill because it is too much? Oooops! They are the same Dems.

Airforceone

Go easy on him you have to take one step at a time. Now your really going to confuse him when you talk Artificial Wages hurts the worker versus Tariffs he is now totally lost.

Next thing you do with him is try explaining how Tariffs tie to inflation. When you get to inflation no problem he will leave and go play in another sandbox.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Why don’t you come play in my sandbox you old drunk. I know more about economics than your ignorant self. All you are capable of is off the wall rants, cherry picking, and partisan points from left wing sources. No one takes you serious. Some day I hope you come out of your gated community. Happy to talk face to face.