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We are guilty. The OPP demographic
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Jan 12, 2019 18:18:06   #
Fit2BTied Loc: Texas
 
Morgan wrote:
...coming from the group that cannot accept facts, which now includes historical facts.
Not exactly sure about your politics other than that you aren't a fan of Donald Trump and what he's done since he was elected. You paint with a wide brush when you say what you did. I think you left out a word. You should have said "coming from the group that cannot accept OUR facts...". There, I fixed it.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 18:38:05   #
nwtk2007 Loc: Texas
 
maximus wrote:
Come on, moldy,
Trump ain't asking for a 2,000 mile wall, just certain areas of the border where you yourself said a wall is useful. You know as well, as I do what Trump wants. You also know that Pelosi, Shumer, and Obama v**ed FOR said wall and for much, much more money......until Trump got elected. I posted this earlier on another thread, but I'll put it out there again. This is an excerpt from an article in the Washington Post, a WELL KNOWN anti Trump news publication;

National Security
Record number of families crossing U.S. border as Trump threatens new crackdown

The number of migrant parents entering the United States with children has surged to record levels in the three months since President Trump ended family separations at the border, dealing the administration a deepening crisis three weeks before the midterm e******ns.

Border Patrol agents arrested 16,658 family members in September, the highest one-month total on record and an 80 percent increase from July, according to unpublished Department of Homeland Security statistics obtained by The Washington Post.

NOTE: This 15,658 in Sept. is only PARENTS, not young men, gang members, cartel members, rapists, and small time criminals. I'm NOT saying that all the rest are bad guys, but I don't know how many are in the tens of thousands, and neither do YOU. CBS did a fact check on Trump's Tues. night speech and found that they had proved Trump correct in his statement that 60% to 80% of women making the journey to the US get raped along the way. CBS deleted that tidbit from their report. So, you guys want to talk about misinformation?To not mention the t***h is lying.
Also, as for what I said, look it up for a fact check. You'll find I didn't lie or misrepresent it in any way.

I don't lie. If I get something wrong, ( everyone does sometimes),I fix it as soon as I find out about it.
Come on, moldy, br Trump ain't asking for a 2,000 ... (show quote)


It's ALL about Trump h**e/ politics.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 19:59:34   #
Bcon
 
Fit2BTied wrote:
Thank you for the link. I missed that. However, I'm going to disagree with you as to its significance. For as long as walls have been built, tunnels have been built. The existence of tunnels doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a wall. Tunneling is a work-intensive process. If the tunnel goes any distance at all, it's a huge undertaking. So let's look at 2 scenarios.
S1.) I buy your logic and don't build a wall/fence. Mike, the i*****l a***n gets to the border, encounters nothing and walks across the border. (no delay)
S2.) I have a wall/fence. Mike, faced with a wall/fence must:
a. Try to make it over or through the wall/fence. (delayed)
b. Try to cross somewhere else where there may not be a wall/fence. (delayed)
c. Take the time to tunnel under the wall/fence (really delayed)
d. Go back home (deterred at least temporarily)

The Border Patrol "patrols". With the help of sensors, drones, helicopters, etc. they are directed to places that they are needed. They cannot be everywhere at once. If you delay the crossing, the odds increase that the crossing is noticed and responded to.

I was in Korea for 13 months near the DMZ back in the mid 70s. They found tunnels nearly every week. They found them and they destroyed them. Each time, they erased the money and effort spent to build that tunnel. That's money and effort (time) that adds up. I never heard anyone say, "Aw crap, they're digging tunnels, we might as well tear down the wall, because it's useless."
Thank you for the link. I missed that. However, ... (show quote)


Too much logic for libs to understand.

Reply
 
 
Jan 12, 2019 21:33:53   #
maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
 
Fit2BTied wrote:
Thank you for the link. I missed that. However, I'm going to disagree with you as to its significance. For as long as walls have been built, tunnels have been built. The existence of tunnels doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a wall. Tunneling is a work-intensive process. If the tunnel goes any distance at all, it's a huge undertaking. So let's look at 2 scenarios.
S1.) I buy your logic and don't build a wall/fence. Mike, the i*****l a***n gets to the border, encounters nothing and walks across the border. (no delay)
S2.) I have a wall/fence. Mike, faced with a wall/fence must:
a. Try to make it over or through the wall/fence. (delayed)
b. Try to cross somewhere else where there may not be a wall/fence. (delayed)
c. Take the time to tunnel under the wall/fence (really delayed)
d. Go back home (deterred at least temporarily)

The Border Patrol "patrols". With the help of sensors, drones, helicopters, etc. they are directed to places that they are needed. They cannot be everywhere at once. If you delay the crossing, the odds increase that the crossing is noticed and responded to.

I was in Korea for 13 months near the DMZ back in the mid 70s. They found tunnels nearly every week. They found them and they destroyed them. Each time, they erased the money and effort spent to build that tunnel. That's money and effort (time) that adds up. I never heard anyone say, "Aw crap, they're digging tunnels, we might as well tear down the wall, because it's useless."
Thank you for the link. I missed that. However, ... (show quote)


Great point!!

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 21:56:41   #
maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
 
byronglimish wrote:
Excuse me.


Sir..my point is there is no point in honoring Columbus for what he didn't do.

You teach children dishonesty as not relevant.



I DO mean is that we can teach that Columbus never set foot on the North American continent, but he DID have an idea about the earth being round and this half of the world in named after his friend. Teach the little ones what I just said, which is not dishonest. When they are old enough, then give them the rest. No one can tell me that all the gore kids see nowadays doesn't affect their mental development. I learned in grade school that Columbus didn't discover America, but only later did I learn how cruel he was to the natives, but I was better mentally equipped to learn that at a later age.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 22:12:23   #
moldyoldy
 
Fit2BTied wrote:
Thank you for the link. I missed that. However, I'm going to disagree with you as to its significance. For as long as walls have been built, tunnels have been built. The existence of tunnels doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a wall. Tunneling is a work-intensive process. If the tunnel goes any distance at all, it's a huge undertaking. So let's look at 2 scenarios.
S1.) I buy your logic and don't build a wall/fence. Mike, the i*****l a***n gets to the border, encounters nothing and walks across the border. (no delay)
S2.) I have a wall/fence. Mike, faced with a wall/fence must:
a. Try to make it over or through the wall/fence. (delayed)
b. Try to cross somewhere else where there may not be a wall/fence. (delayed)
c. Take the time to tunnel under the wall/fence (really delayed)
d. Go back home (deterred at least temporarily)

The Border Patrol "patrols". With the help of sensors, drones, helicopters, etc. they are directed to places that they are needed. They cannot be everywhere at once. If you delay the crossing, the odds increase that the crossing is noticed and responded to.

I was in Korea for 13 months near the DMZ back in the mid 70s. They found tunnels nearly every week. They found them and they destroyed them. Each time, they erased the money and effort spent to build that tunnel. That's money and effort (time) that adds up. I never heard anyone say, "Aw crap, they're digging tunnels, we might as well tear down the wall, because it's useless."
Thank you for the link. I missed that. However, ... (show quote)


We do not have a lot of disagreement, but we must look at what is practical and what is possible. We have mountains ad rivers and ranches where a wall is not practical. We should be talking about what can be done. Let the Army Corp of Engineers evaluate and propose a plan.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 22:31:53   #
Mikeyavelli
 
maximus wrote:
I DO mean is that we can teach that Columbus never set foot on the North American continent, but he DID have an idea about the earth being round and this half of the world in named after his friend. Teach the little ones what I just said, which is not dishonest. When they are old enough, then give them the rest. No one can tell me that all the gore kids see nowadays doesn't affect their mental development. I learned in grade school that Columbus didn't discover America, but only later did I learn how cruel he was to the natives, but I was better mentally equipped to learn that at a later age.
I DO mean is that we can teach that Columbus never... (show quote)


In 1492 no one cared about the treatment of indigenous people in the newly discovered lands. And the indigenous people didn’t care how cruel they were to the arrivals from the sea.
Only today, as a weapon to discredit the founding of America is it a one way concern, that Christopher Columbus was a r****t k**ler of innocent people.
Bullmueller. He discovered America.

Reply
 
 
Jan 12, 2019 22:48:01   #
maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
 
Morgan wrote:
First, I... like Benjamin Franklin consider myself an independent, I'm not a party person. Where have you been, people have been protesting like crazy, especially over the EPA, which is all about science and facts.

Your points are real, to you, to me they are completely distorted and since you consider me to the left, which I do lean more towards than the right, I think I have a right to say your statements are distorted in order to make us look, unfavourable and yourselves appear in the right, as you would have it,"the moral right" It is a d******e language. You are generalizing in thinking the masses on the left all think the same, on every issue, they don't, I believe the same for the right. It would take time to refute all of your statements, which I'm not willing to do so I'll simply say they are inaccurate.

I don't think you can put socialism into a science, socialism is about behaviours, and no your summarization or definition is not actual t***h, it is relative it is subjective.

At times, clearly the Constitution was outdated, and the rectifications through amendments were appropriate.
First, I... like Benjamin Franklin consider myself... (show quote)


You know, Morgan, I'm a late convert. I really liked Bill Clinton. After his presidency, I figured that Hillary being a strong woman, was set for the office at a later date. I DID NOT like either Bush. When Obama won, I was cheerful and hopeful. I thought we really had someone now who could shake up DC.
Then things started happening. When he went on his world apology tour, I thought to myself, "Huh???? He did WHAT???" Then he said that the constitution was just a piece of paper that kept him from doing what he wanted to. I was like, "Whooooaaaaa!!!!!!!Ont-uhhhh!!!" Then when the shootings came to the forefront, ( by way of the liberal biased media)he was always for the black guy before he even knew what the circumstances were. His black buddy and the cop he had to the White House for a beer, was whitewash. The old buddy was breaking into his own home and someone called the police. When they got there, he refused to provide ID. The cops arrested him. There was NO r****m to it. The old buddy was acting like a jerk because he felt empowered by Obama. Then him and Holder put Fast and Furious into action, leading to the deaths of hundreds. He pardoned Holder and locked his own papers away by executive order. Then, THEN!!! He tried to pounce on my second amendment rights to gun ownership and freedom of religion. I couldn't stand Trump until he announced he was running and started to make campaign promises. I was amazed, he was for everything I was for, while Hillary was looking like a career criminal. I watched her lie on TV. At one rally, she said "oh, yes, Were going to shut those coal mines down" Then at another rally in coal country, she said,"We're not going to shut your mines down" I know that salesmen exaggerate and so do politicians, but this was an outright lie. I couldn't v**e for her, or Bernie, he was a socialist. I couldn't v**e for anyone on the right side except Trump. I'll be honest...my v**e went to who would protect, in order, religious freedom for Christians, my 2nd amendment rights, and clean up our southern border. You have a right to your opinion, but if you say that Trump said something that he just did not say, or that he did something that he just didn't do, when the media puts out a photo of kids in a cage taken under Obama's term and saying, "Look what Trump is doing", when the main stream media can't give us the news for bashing Trump, when a reporter makes a false report that makes the stock market drop 300 point in one day, when the democrats pay a Russian spy for a dossier to bring collusion charges against Trump, when they sell weapons grade uranium to the Russians, when Obama is recorded saying he would be more flexible with the Russians after he was elected, and they are not even noticed for Russian collusion while Trump has hell hounds on his tail, and people he knows are arrested for things done years ago that have NOTHING to do with Russian collusion, when Trump tries hard several times to reach a deal on the border wall issue, and Pelosi/Shumer refuse to even negotiate with him, then I HAVE to stand with the man who has nothing but false accusations thrown in his face. The office of the president used to be a position of respect, but the way Trump is being treated, now it's a joke. There will never be another respected president elected ever again. If a dem is elected, the republicans will chew him/her to bits, and if a rep is elected, we already know what the democrats will do. I don't believe I've told any lies or embellished anything.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 22:57:05   #
Mikeyavelli
 
I don't believe that you trusted obama, ever. However, it's a good contrasting point for your magnificent ending.
And I hope that you are correct in that if ever a Kommiecrat slithers into the Whitehouse, the people of America will chew at his or her schumer until it falls off. No more nice guy.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 23:34:55   #
maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
 
moldyoldy wrote:
We do not have a lot of disagreement, but we must look at what is practical and what is possible. We have mountains ad rivers and ranches where a wall is not practical. We should be talking about what can be done. Let the Army Corp of Engineers evaluate and propose a plan.


Moldy, if we can keep the Mississippi river from diverting to Texas when she WANTS to go to Texas, we can get water under the wall. Rivers out there are just a ditch compared to where I live anyway. Do you like zooming across country on the interstate? Those roadways were built using imminent domain If the wall runs with the river, ranchers won't lose too much land.

Reply
Jan 12, 2019 23:45:09   #
moldyoldy
 
maximus wrote:
Moldy, if we can keep the Mississippi river from diverting to Texas when she WANTS to go to Texas, we can get water under the wall. Rivers out there are just a ditch compared to where I live anyway. Do you like zooming across country on the interstate? Those roadways were not done built using imminent domain If the wall runs with the river, ranchers won't lose too much land.


If it was so simple it would have

Reply
 
 
Jan 12, 2019 23:55:50   #
Morgan
 
Fit2BTied wrote:
Not exactly sure about your politics other than that you aren't a fan of Donald Trump and what he's done since he was elected. You paint with a wide brush when you say what you did. I think you left out a word. You should have said "coming from the group that cannot accept OUR facts...". There, I fixed it.


No that would be your group of alternative facts. What he's done since he's been elected is that I have a problem with.

Reply
Jan 13, 2019 00:21:45   #
Morgan
 
maximus wrote:
You know, Morgan, I'm a late convert. I really liked Bill Clinton. After his presidency, I figured that Hillary being a strong woman, was set for the office at a later date. I DID NOT like either Bush. When Obama won, I was cheerful and hopeful. I thought we really had someone now who could shake up DC.
Then things started happening. When he went on his world apology tour, I thought to myself, "Huh???? He did WHAT???" Then he said that the constitution was just a piece of paper that kept him from doing what he wanted to. I was like, "Whooooaaaaa!!!!!!!Ont-uhhhh!!!" Then when the shootings came to the forefront, ( by way of the liberal biased media)he was always for the black guy before he even knew what the circumstances were. His black buddy and the cop he had to the White House for a beer, was whitewash. The old buddy was breaking into his own home and someone called the police. When they got there, he refused to provide ID. The cops arrested him. There was NO r****m to it. The old buddy was acting like a jerk because he felt empowered by Obama. Then him and Holder put Fast and Furious into action, leading to the deaths of hundreds. He pardoned Holder and locked his own papers away by executive order. Then, THEN!!! He tried to pounce on my second amendment rights to gun ownership and freedom of religion. I couldn't stand Trump until he announced he was running and started to make campaign promises. I was amazed, he was for everything I was for, while Hillary was looking like a career criminal. I watched her lie on TV. At one rally, she said "oh, yes, Were going to shut those coal mines down" Then at another rally in coal country, she said,"We're not going to shut your mines down" I know that salesmen exaggerate and so do politicians, but this was an outright lie. I couldn't v**e for her, or Bernie, he was a socialist. I couldn't v**e for anyone on the right side except Trump. I'll be honest...my v**e went to who would protect, in order, religious freedom for Christians, my 2nd amendment rights, and clean up our southern border. You have a right to your opinion, but if you say that Trump said something that he just did not say, or that he did something that he just didn't do, when the media puts out a photo of kids in a cage taken under Obama's term and saying, "Look what Trump is doing", when the main stream media can't give us the news for bashing Trump, when a reporter makes a false report that makes the stock market drop 300 point in one day, when the democrats pay a Russian spy for a dossier to bring collusion charges against Trump, when they sell weapons grade uranium to the Russians, when Obama is recorded saying he would be more flexible with the Russians after he was elected, and they are not even noticed for Russian collusion while Trump has hell hounds on his tail, and people he knows are arrested for things done years ago that have NOTHING to do with Russian collusion, when Trump tries hard several times to reach a deal on the border wall issue, and Pelosi/Shumer refuse to even negotiate with him, then I HAVE to stand with the man who has nothing but false accusations thrown in his face. The office of the president used to be a position of respect, but the way Trump is being treated, now it's a joke. There will never be another respected president elected ever again. If a dem is elected, the republicans will chew him/her to bits, and if a rep is elected, we already know what the democrats will do. I don't believe I've told any lies or embellished anything.
You know, Morgan, I'm a late convert. I really lik... (show quote)


I understand your concerns for the country, I have some real concerns also. You've brought up too many issues to discuss. Right now we are being manipulated to divide us, and I see that as bigger threat than any other attack. I use to remind people, that divided we fall but the h**e and contrasting ideologies have gotten so far, that I am now more inclined division would be better, so maybe they have won after all.

As I can see with the h**eful and constant name calling here on opp from the right, from Demoncrat, Kommiecrat, or Demoncrat, they perpetuate h**e, you don't see it from the left.

If they want to build a wall maybe it should go north to south. If the atmosphere of OPP is what we will see reflected in American society, then let us divide, because this atmosphere on OPP I would never want to live in. I am all for us living within our own principles. Don't forget walls can keep people locked in also, don't think it can never happen to us.

Reply
Jan 13, 2019 00:53:07   #
Morgan
 
byronglimish wrote:
Excuse me.


Sir..my point is there is no point in honoring Columbus for what he didn't do.

You teach children dishonesty as not relevant.


You might find this interesting...The states of Florida, Hawaii, Alaska, Vermont, and South Dakota, do not recognize it(Columbus Day) and have each replaced it with celebrations of Indigenous People's Day (in Hawaii, Discoverers' Day, in South Dakota, Native American Day). In the state of Oregon, Columbus Day is not an official holiday.

Reply
Jan 13, 2019 06:11:15   #
maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
 
Morgan wrote:
I understand your concerns for the country, I have some real concerns also. You've brought up too many issues to discuss. Right now we are being manipulated to divide us, and I see that as bigger threat than any other attack. I use to remind people, that divided we fall but the h**e and contrasting ideologies have gotten so far, that I am now more inclined division would be better, so maybe they have won after all.

As I can see with the h**eful and constant name calling here on opp from the right, from Demoncrat, Kommiecrat, or Demoncrat, they perpetuate h**e, you don't see it from the left.

If they want to build a wall maybe it should go north to south. If the atmosphere of OPP is what we will see reflected in American society, then let us divide, because this atmosphere on OPP I would never want to live in. I am all for us living within our own principles. Don't forget walls can keep people locked in also, don't think it can never happen to us.
I understand your concerns for the country, I have... (show quote)



We all have clouded judgement due to our beliefs of the way thing should be. Perspective seems to be at play here too, cause I see the left constantly putting the right down. Both of us say the other is blind. However, there is NO other place than OPP for me to be able to say what I think about the state of the union. Even my own sister in law will loudly overspeak me and not let me get a word in, where as if I did that she would be furious. It all depends on our perspective, seems like.
But you're absolutely right about one thing, anyway, and that is that we ARE divided.When the opposite party has a person elected, we don't like it.
I agree with you that if we swallow some p***e and compromise in order to run the country, but keep our perspective on the main topics, and just let the other things slide, we wouild be better off.

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