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11/26/2018 Was Luther Excommunicated Due Partly to Sola Scriptura? (Part 1)

Dave Armstrong
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2018/11/was-luther-excommunicated-due-partly-to-sola-scriptura.html?


Anti-Catholic Reformed Protestant Luther expert James Swan had a lively exchange with a Catholic (Mark Rome) on the anti-Catholic CARM forum.
https://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2018/11/carm-discussion-luther-and-romans-328.html


I am concentrating on this particular back-and-forth:

Mark Rome:  
Luther was excommunicated and declared a heretic for many issues including his insistence on sola scriptura and setting himself up (and every individual) as the private judge of faith.

James Swan: 
Where? In the Edict of Worms? That was the most important document that declared him a heretic. Read the “Items” in the Edict, Where was Luther condemned for “sola scriptura” and “setting himself up (and every individual) as the private judge of faith“? Perhaps you’re reading the document differently than I am, or perhaps I simply missed these points in my old age.

I suspect that it’s a combination of things, myself: extreme anti-Catholic bias clouding his objectivity in reading anything Catholic, and perhaps also the maladies of old age; for these aspects are clear in the Edict, as well as in the books of Luther that it condemned as heretical.

I have documented fifty of the things where Luther had departed from received

Catholic doctrine and practice, by 1520.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2015/09/50-heterodox-beliefs-of-luther-in-1520.html

A year before the Diet of Worms in 1521, which was the famous confrontation where Luther — at length — proclaimed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_of_Worms

Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God.

I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience.

May God help me. Amen.



This statement itself is a clear declaration of the principle of sola Scriptura as a rule of faith.

Sola Scriptura, as defined by all the best Protestant theologians and apologists, means that the Bible is the only final and infallible authority in matters of Christian doctrine.


Nothing else is infallible:

And this includes ecumenical councils, the Catholic Church, and sacred tradition, as passed down by the Catholic Church.

Sola Scriptura itself logically reduces to a radically individualistic scenario of private judgment, since Scripture still requires interpretation, and Protestants have always massively disagreed with each other on that score from the beginning.


Therefore, in the final analysis, each Protestant individual can and may decide for himself or herself which theological proposition is true and which isn’t.

It can’t be otherwise, since this was the very principle Luther himself exercised, when he decided to go off on his own.


Then, very soon, dozens of other Protestant sects decided to use his same principle:

Except that they profoundly disagreed with Luther in its application, concerning doctrines such as (most notably) the Real Presence in the Eucharist, and the effects and nature of baptism.


This division and sectarianism;

Drove Luther nuts — bothered him to no end, but he never showed how it wasn’t permissible or to be expected based on his own notion of sola Scriptura.
www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/luthers-disgust-over-protestant-sectarianism-and-radical-heresies


Thus, Swan’s query has already been answered by Luther himself in his famous statement of defiance and rebellion against the theological status quo:

Just prior to the Edict of Worms of 25 May 1521 (issued by by Holy Roman Emperor Charles V).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_V,_Holy_Roman_Emperor


But there is far more evidence than just that.

At the Diet of Worms, Luther was asked to renounced and retract the works he had written, that contained numerous heresies (judged to be so by the received Catholic “three-legged stool” of Scripture-Church-Tradition).


These included two of his three famous treatises, written in 1520: 

To the Christian Nobility of the German Nation and,
The Babylonian Captivity of the Church.

I drew from these two works and a few other documented statements of Luther, in compiling his fifty departures from precedent and required Catholic belief and practice.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2015/09/50-heterodox-beliefs-of-luther-in-1520.html


Here are some of his false statements, having to do with sola Scriptura and private judgment:

“If we are all priests . . . why should we not also have the power to test and judge what is right or wrong in matters of faith?” 
(To the Christian Nobility of the German Nation; in Three Treatises. Philadelphia: Fortress Press], taken from Luther’s Works, revised edition, 1970, p. 21)


Private judgment and sola Scriptura: Radical innovations concerning Christian authority.

“The Romanists have no basis in Scripture for their claim that the pope alone has the right to call or confirm a council.” 
(Ibid., p. 22)


Overthrows the long-established principle of governance of ecumenical councils; on
p. 23

He states that when the pope is “an offense to Christendom, the first man who is able should . . . do what he can to bring about a truly free council.” 
p. 24.

Says that “we” can “excommunicate” the pope if he has gone astray.


These are from one of the works that Luther was asked to recant and denounce.

And so the Edict of Worms makes reference to these sorts of radically anti-traditional notions of the rule of faith:
www.crivoice.org/creededictworms.html


He despises and condemns the doctrines and authorities which the holy doctors preceding us have left for our instructions, . . .


Furthermore, he is not ashamed to detract from and speak evil of the sacred and holy general councils.

Among these he has primarily destroyed (as much as he was able to) the holy Council of Constance, . . .


Luther appeared here in Worms before us and before the princes, prelates, and other people from the several estates.

Following our order, we had him questioned,
Asking him first if, yes or no, he had written the books which were then named and shown to him and

[secondly] If he wanted to revoke the contents of these books concerning things against the Catholic faith, the sacred general councils, the apostolic decrees, and the church rites and customs observed and kept by our predecessors and by us down to the present day.


We requested of the said Luther, both in our name and in that of all our assistants, that he be willing to return humbly to the unity and communion of our Mother Church.

And even then it would have been easy to convert him and soften his heart if the said Luther had not been as obstinate as a rock.


Luther admitted before us and before the princes and the people of the diet that the books named were his and that he could not and would not ever deny them. . . .

Nevertheless, through evil words and gestures towards our priests,
He publicly pronounced that he would not change one word of the contents of his books, declaring in our presence and in that of the diet that the apostolic decrees and the holy general councils contradicted each other more than once.

As far as he was concerned, he did not hold these decrees and councils to be true, and he would not revoke one thing of what he had written until he was convinced otherwise by the Holy Scriptures or by divine authority. . . .


He said that not only was he suspicious of each one of us, but that even if a general council were assembled, he still would not submit to it.

And, if we were informed correctly, he even dared say with his polluted mouth that the things of the gospel and the Catholic faith have never been treated well by the general councils.


Luther has appealed from the sentence of our Holy Father the pope to the general council as his last resort, even though he has said so many wicked and insulting things and has written such evil things about the general councils.


All of this occurred after Luther had been excommunicated.

The Church was still trying to give him a chance to repent of his errors.

Luther was warned about possible excommunication in Exsurge Domine: a papal bull promulgated on 15 June 1520 by Pope Leo X.
www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo10/l10exdom.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_X

He failing to heed that advice, and in fact publicly burned the Bull on 10 December 1520.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exsurge_Domine

Then Decet Romanum Pontificem was issuedon January 3, 1521 by the same pope. It excommunicated Martin Luther.
www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo10/l10decet.htm

(End Part 1)

Doc110 Loc: York PA

11/26/2018 Was Luther Excommunicated Due Partly to Sola Scriptura? (Part 2)

Dave Armstrong
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2018/11/was-luther-excommunicated-due-partly-to-sola-scriptura.html?


Anti-Catholic Reformed Protestant Luther expert James Swan had a lively exchange with a Catholic (Mark Rome) on the anti-Catholic CARM forum.
https://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2018/11/carm-discussion-luther-and-romans-328.html


The former document made reference, in effect, to the idea of sola Scriptura in its full consequences:

A rebellion against the divinely established authority of the Catholic Church.

It stated:
We beseech you also, Paul, to arise.

It was you that enlightened and illuminated the Church by your doctrine and by a martyrdom like Peter’s.

For now a new Porphyry rises who, as the old once wrongfully assailed the holy apostles, now assails the holy pontiffs, our predecessors.

. . . Some, putting aside her true interpretation of Sacred Scripture, are blinded in mind by the father of lies.

Wise in their own eyes, according to the ancient practice of heretics, they interpret these same Scriptures otherwise than the Holy Spirit demands, inspired only by their own sense of ambition, and for the sake of popular acclaim, as the Apostle declares.

In fact, they twist and adulterate the Scriptures.

As a result, according to Jerome, “It is no longer the Gospel of Christ, but a man’s, or what is worse, the devil’s.” . . .

One of the 41 propositions condemned is the following:

29. A way has been made for us for weakening the authority of councils, and for freely contradicting their actions, and judging their decrees, and boldly confessing whatever seems true, whether it has been approved or disapproved by any council whatsoever.

James Swan appears to be confusing the Edict of Worms with Exsurge Domine. 

He refers to “items” listed.

That sounds like the 41 things enumerated in Exsurge Domine.

Assuming he was referring to that listing, he claimed that none had anything to do with private judgment or sola Scriptura.

But #29 clearly does, since the denigration of ecumenical councils as no longer infallible authorities is part and parcel of sola Scriptura, and in fact, was a key idea in coming up with sola Scriptura in the first place (arguably traced to 1519 and the Leipzig Disputation).
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2016/06/papal-infallibility-doctrine-history.html

Swan also claimed that the Edict of Worms was “the most important document that declared him a heretic.”

It was not. The two papal encyclicals were that.

The Holy Roman Emperor was not even part of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church.

Swan will be informed of this refutation, but he’ll ignore it, as he has any such refutations by myself for several years now. 

I’m blocked from both Swan’s blog and the CARM forums . . .


(End Part 2)

Rose42

He was excommunicated for daring to expose the false doctrines of Catholicism. That's it.

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Rose42,

Compost, Compost and more Compost, That's it.

Deny the Historical truth, all you want . . .

To be Deep in History, is to cease to be Protestant . . .



09/21/2015 50 Heterodox Beliefs of Luther in 1520 (Departures from Church Tradition). (Part 3)

Dave Armstrong
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2015/09/50-heterodox-beliefs-of-luther-in-1520.html

Original title: “50 Ways In Which Luther Had Departed From Catholic Orthodoxy by 1520 (and Why He Was Excommunicated)”
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2015/09/50-heterodox-beliefs-of-luther-in-1520.html


Here is what Luther believed contrary to the Church (without even delving too much into the finer points of soteriology):


1. Separation of justification from sanctification.
2. Extrinsic, forensic, imputed notion of justification.
3. Fiduciary faith.
4. Private judgment over against ecclesial infallibility.
5. Tossing out seven books of the Bible.
6. Denial of venial sin.
7. Denial of merit.
8. The damned should be happy that they are damned and accept God’s
will.
9. Jesus offered Himself for damnation and possible hellfire.
10. No good work can be done except by a justified man.
11. All baptized men are priests (denial of the sacrament of ordination).
12. All baptized men can give absolution.
13. Bishops do not truly hold that office; God has not instituted it.
14. Popes do not truly hold that office; God has not instituted it.
15. Priests have no special, indelible character.
16. Temporal authorities have power over the Church; even bishops and
popes; to assert the contrary was a mere presumptuous invention.
17. Vows of celibacy are wrong and should be abolished.
18. Denial of papal infallibility.
19. Belief that unrighteous priests or popes lose their authority (contrary to
Augustine’s rationale against the Donatists).
20. The keys of the kingdom were not just given to Peter.
21. Private judgment of every individual to determine matters of faith.
22. Denial that the pope has the right to call or confirm a council.
23. Denial that the Church has the right to demand celibacy of certain
callings.
24. There is no such vocation as a monk; God has not instituted it.
25. Feast days should be abolished, and all church celebrations confined to
Sundays.
26. Fasts should be strictly optional.
27. Canonization of saints is thoroughly corrupt and should stop.
28. Confirmation is not a sacrament.
29. Indulgences should be abolished.
30. Dispensations should be abolished.
31. Philosophy (Aristotle as prime example) is an unsavory, detrimental
influence on Christianity.
32. Transubstantiation is “a monstrous idea.”
33. The Church cannot institute sacraments.
34. Denial of the “wicked” belief that the mass is a good work.
35. Denial of the “wicked” belief that the mass is a true sacrifice.
36. Denial of the sacramental notion of ex opere operato.
37. Denial that penance is a sacrament.
38. Assertion that the Catholic Church had “completely abolished” even the
practice of penance.
39. Claim that the Church had abolished faith as an aspect of penance.
40. Denial of apostolic succession.
41. Any layman who can should call a general council.
42. Penitential works are worthless.
43. None of what Catholics believe to be the seven sacraments have any
biblical proof.
44. Marriage is not a sacrament.
45. Annulments are a senseless concept and the Church has no right to
determine or grant annulments.
46. Whether divorce is allowable is an open question.
47. Divorced persons should be allowed to remarry.
48. Jesus allowed divorce when one partner committed adultery.
49. The priest’s daily office is “vain repetition.”
50. Extreme unction is not a sacrament (there are only two sacraments:
baptism and the Eucharist).

So that is 50 ways in which Luther was a heretic, heterodox, a schismatic, or believed things which were clearly contrary to the Catholic Church’s teaching or practice.

Up to and including truly radical departures (even societally radical in some cases).

Is that enough to justify his excommunication from Catholic ranks?

Or was the Church supposed to say, “yeah, Luther, you know, you’re right about these fifty issues.

You know better than the entire Church, the entire history of the Church, and all the wisdom of the saints in past ages who have believed these things.

So we will bow to your heaven-sent wisdom, change all fifty beliefs or practices, so we can proceed in a godly direction.

Thanks so much!

We are forever indebted to you for having informed us of all these errors!!”

Is that not patently ridiculous?

What Church would change 50 things in its doctrines because one person feels himself to be some sort of oracle from God or pseudo-prophet:

God’s man for the age?

Yet we are led to believe that it is self-evident that Luther was a good, obedient Catholic who only wanted to reform the Church, not overturn or leave it, let alone start a new sect.

He may have been naive or silly enough to believe that himself, but objectively-speaking, it is clear and plain to one and all that what he offered – even prior to 1520 –

Was a radical program; a revolution.

This is not reform.

And the so-called “Protestant Reformation” was not that, either (considered as a whole).

It was a Revolt or a Revolution.

I have just shown why that is.

No sane, conscious person who had read any of his three radical treatises of 1520 could doubt that he had already ceased to be an orthodox Catholic.

He did not reluctantly become so because he was unfairly kicked out of the Church by men who would not listen to manifest Scripture and reason (as the Protestant myth and perpetual propaganda would have it) but because he had chosen himself to accept heretical teachings.

By the standard of Catholic orthodoxy, and had become a radical, intent also on spreading his (sincerely and passionately held) errors across the land with slanderous, mocking, propagandistic tracts and even vulgar woodcuts, if needs be.

Therefore, the Church was entirely sensible, reasonable, within her rights, logical, self-consistent, and not hypocritical or “threatened” in the slightest to simply demand Luther’s recantation of his errors at the Diet of Worms in 1521.

And to refuse to argue with him (having already tried on several occasions, anyway), because to do so would have granted his ridiculous presumption.

That he was in a position to singlehandedly dispute and debate what had been the accumulated doctrinal and theological wisdom of the Church for almost 1500 years.


(End Part 3)

Rose42

I'll repeat it Doc - He was excommunicated for daring to expose the false doctrines of Catholicism. That's it.

It really is that simple.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Here we readers. More Roman Catholic church revisionist history that Doc110 justifies.

Then there is the Truth

http://www.historyrevealed.com/eras/medieval/the-vaticans-mostwanted-martin-luther/

Read link, only partial article...

The Vatican’s Most Wanted: Martin Luther
It took just one monk to bring down the most powerful institution in Medieval Europe. Alicea Francis tells the story of the man who dared defy the Catholic Church 500 years ago today.

The Vatican's Most Wanted: Martin Luther © Getty Images
As darkness descended on the Thuringian Forest, only the cracking of fallen branches under hoof disturbed the silence. Had you been there that night, you might have crossed paths with a man on horseback, following the winding path through the trees. From his dark robes and shaved scalp, you may well have guessed that this was a holy man; what you may not have guessed was that he was an outlaw: the most wanted man in all the Holy Roman Empire.


What came next happened so quickly that, had you briefly looked away, you would have missed it completely; a rustling of leaves was the only warning. Three hooded horsemen emerged from the shadows of the forest, swords raised and glinting in the moonlight, blocking the solitary rider’s path. The monk lowered his head to the ground, clutched the cross that hung from his neck, and prayed for salvation.

Root of evil
Medieval Germany was a place of desolation and disease. Since the mid-14th century, the Black Death had ravaged much of Europe, and in just 100 years the German population almost halved. For many, there was only one comfort: the promise of heaven. The Catholic Church had grown more powerful than any monarch – and also richer. Not only did it own around a third of the land in Europe, it had also begun to sell ‘indulgences’, which promised to reduce the amount of time the recipient would spend in purgatory (that half-way house between heaven and hell). These indulgences could redeem for anything, and could cost half the annual wage of the average citizen. Those who had dared to question the morality of this practice had been smeared heretics, the punishment for which was a slow and painful death.

The sale of indulgences
The sale of indulgences
When a baby boy was born in Eisleben, Saxony on 10 November 1483, no one could ever have predicted that he would one day defy the odds and revolutionise Christianity forever.

There were, however, high expectations for the child who would be baptised Martin Luther. His father, Hans, was the son of a farmer, and had broken free from the chains of serfdom to become a successful copper smelter. For his own son, he had even higher ambitions, and he sent Martin to the best Catholic schools in Saxony. But what Hans abounded in ambition, he lacked in affection. Both he and his wife Margarethe were strict disciplinarians, and as an adult Martin recalled how his mother, “for the sake of stealing a nut… beat me until the blood flowed”. It was a pious, but unhappy, upbringing.

In 1501, Hans enrolled Martin at the University of Erfurt; his son, he had decided, was to become a lawyer. Martin, however, did not share his father’s ambitions. He described his school days as “hell and purgatory”; Erfurt, meanwhile, was a “whorehouse and a beer house”. In July 1505, inevitably, some might argue, he dropped out of university. His father was furious, but Martin insisted that he had a good explanation. While travelling back to Erfurt after a trip home, he had found himself in the midst of a thunderstorm. A lightning bolt struck the ground near to him and, fearing for his life, Martin cried out “Help me, Saint Anne, I shall become a monk”. He survived the journey and two weeks later, he joined the local monastery.

Martin Luther as an Augustinian monk
Martin Luther as an Augustinian monk
But the inner peace he sought was not to be found there, either. The silence and solitude gave him too much time to think, and he descended into religious turmoil, believing that he would never be able to redeem for his sins and achieve salvation. It was as though Martin had exchanged one unforgiving father for another, even more impossible to please. Martin spent hour after hour in confession to his superior, Johann von Staupitz, who became concerned for the young monk. He decided that rather than allow him to indulge in constant internal reflection, he would send him away to Wittenberg. There, Martin would teach theology at the newly founded university, focusing on the spiritual needs of others rather than this own. By 1512, he had been promoted to Dean and in 1515, he was made provincial vicar of Saxony and Thuringia.

Devil’s advocate
A pilgrimage to Rome in 1510 led the new professor Luther to become increasingly concerned about corruption within the Church. He had seen the riches that were showered upon the Pope, and witnessed starving peasants handing over every penny of their earnings in exchange for indulgences. Surely this was not God’s will? It was while preparing for a lecture that Professor Luther stumbled upon a passage from Romans: “The righteous shall live by faith”. It was as though the gates of paradise had swung open. Finally he understood that it was only through faith that salvation is achieved, not through

bahmer

Very good Jack thanks Amen and Amen.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

He just is not very bright. Using catholic history that catholic apologists twisted, revised to hide the false teachings and doctrines from their flock.

Just cannot refute genuine history, recorded by historians found in archives by the secular, Christians and even catholic archives.

The catholic church is like the mafia, that uses two sets of books. But then gets caught up when the real set of books are found..

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

God has excommunicated Roman Catholicism.

"Sola Scripture" is God's doctrine throughout time. It cannot be defeated. The day God chose to reveal His Word to mankind, mankind was given back his joy in life, and his hope for eternal life which Adam had forfeited in the Garden of Eden.

Roman Catholic Apologists are so desperate to destroy their supposed enemies, who are all those who expose the truth about their "Holy Mother Pagan Church," and her perversion of "Sola Scripture," they grab onto bigger and bigger lies created by smaller and smaller "Theologians."

Ferreting out the truth of Roman Catholic history is a very dicey enterprise, as it has been deliberately buried beneath constantly reworded obfuscations for centuries.

I believe that Martin Luther effectively "excommunicated" the false and greedy Church of Rome by nailing his declaration of their guilt for all the world to see, for the way they were bleeding the poorest among them of all they possessed, having convinced them it was necessary to save their eternal souls.

Thank God He gave Martin Luther the moral courage, and strength of backbone to denounce the evil practices that he saw demoralizing his countrymen, and to confront the monolithic structure Satan had raised up in Rome, after recognizing it for the fake that it was.

An institution, not in any way bent on glorifying the one true God, but built to make merchandise of all men, emanating the sale of indulgences, and of relics, dead men's bones meant to be used as talisman by practitioners of witchcraft, now borrowed by a false church, worshiping Satan, and proclaiming Satan, in all his earthly disguises.

Deliverance from False Prophets:

"Many will follow in their depravity, and because of them the way of truth will be defamed.
In their greed, these false teachers will exploit you with clever lies in order to make merchandise of you:
The longstanding verdict against them remains in force, and their destruction does not sleep.
For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell, delivering them in chains to be held in gloomy darkness until their judgment;
if He did not spare the ancient world when He brought the flood on its ungodly people, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, among the eight;
if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the ungodly;
and if He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless
(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)
— if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment." (2nd Peter 2:2-9)

The genuine history of Roman Catholicism can never be obliterated, for God's truth will always surface to reveal evil wherever it exists, and there is no greater evil than that which exists to rob men of their eternal souls.

It is the duty of all post-reformation, born-again, Bible believing, Evangelicals, and Christians of all denominations, to fight for the doctrine of "Sola Scripture," to the glory of God, the Father, God, the Son and God, the Holy Spirit.

bahmer

Amen and Amen

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Hello Sister,
. Having the same Holy Spirit, the same Father and glorifying the only begotten Son of God - God in the flesh, freeing us from the bondage of sin through his cleansing blood and through our faith in our Lord Jesus proclaiming his, death, burial, resurrection and ascension, it is by this that bonds us together into the body of Jesus the Christ. This is spiritual understood by those united by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that gives us understanding in spiritual things and to others not having that common bond we share, it is foolishness, they have no understanding.
I'm in awe how it is we (you Zemirah, Rose42, TexaCan, Balmer, mcguines (sp)and myself) having never met, having learned the word of God at different times in our lives, attended different churches in different parts of the country, having different pastors and teachers. In awe how the Holy Spirit has instructed us in the infallible and perfect Word of God. Being we are of the same body, different parts, individuals with knowledge given us by the Holy Spirit for our part, having read the scriptures gaining different understanding and knowledge, we each have the same teacher and the same knowledge of our God's sovereignty, his greatness, Holyness, his ways, the message of the prophets and apostles to the body we are in the same way taught by the same teacher the Holy Spirit knowing all things of God the very same knowledge and understanding. It is in this testamony I am in awe because of the same work of the Spirit of God that we recognize one another in the family of God, body of Christ.

Thinking of the times Martin Luther lived in during the blood lust of any professing Christian by the Roman Catholic church. Christian's feared assembling together having full knowledge they were being viciously hunted for the violation of not accepting and believing in the pagan, satanic Roman Catholic Churches faith, that because of the Holy Spirit Christians could recognize catholic followers as not being brothers and sisters in Christ , could recognize the vacancy of the teachings of the prophets, The Lord Jesus and the apostles among catholic followers avoiding them. they had full knowledge of the penalty of death, being tortured, being gutted, burned at the stake if they were discovered and if discovered would still renounce the Roman Catholic Church. Of coarse their first choice was to remain hidden, worshiping the lord in secret.
Thinking of Martin Luther under these conditions, his boldness and courage is most amazing, as he compared the word of God to the false teaching and doctrines of the Roman Catholic church, it must have been heavy on his mind knowing his final goal of nailing his work to their door, knowing he would be revealing himself and the price he would have to pay if captured by the church. To step back in time and consider the Christians of the time, how God was with them preserving the church under attack from Satan is sobering.

God Bless

bahmer

Amen and Amen

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Thank you, Jack,

-for your kind words, and your kind wishes, they are reciprocated in kind.

Your words reminded me of meeting a Coptic Christian from Egypt some years ago in Cincinnati, Ohio.

I was attending a National Convention of the MJAA (Messianic Jewish Alliance of America) at a Convention Center just outside Cincinnati.

We were having an evening of musical performances, worshiping through singing and Davidic dancing and witnessing and I entered into a conversation with a gentleman who informed me that he was from Egypt, a Coptic Christian from Egypt in the Middle East, who, while having dinner in a restaurant across the street noticed the Marquee announcing the Messianic Jewish Convention that was taking place.

He came running across to the Jewish Believers Convention, because, he said, that could never happen in Egypt. He had never heard of Jewish Christians in his own country, as there are very few Jews at all, and he could not imagine two such groups worshiping together, or being able to intermingle.

He spoke of the hardships the Coptic Christians still suffer in Egypt, often spending several days in their homes when there are neighborhood uprisings of the Muslims against them; Homes and churches are still sometimes burnt, and church members are killed.

I was so comfortable speaking with him, and I saw him afterward, going around the large meeting room, greeting and entering into conversations with people...

His words of the conditions Coptic Christians are still subjected to in their home country was sobering; little do we in the United States appreciate the freedom we still have to purchase the readily available Bible of our choice, plus concordances, Bible Dictionaries, Commentaries and other learning aids, while in Egypt and throughout the Middle East, they are fearful for their lives.

Just in the last few years, have Christians had incidents of active shooters entering their services, making it wise to have armed members of the congregation, if not hired armed guards.

We must thank God that He is raising up a people for His name throughout the world, in each country, that the Great Commission may be fulfilled.

Truly, there is a bond of the Holy Spirit that crosses all cultures and international boundaries with those who truly believe in Jesus Christ.


-answer abbreviated-

bahmer

Amen and Amen awesome thanks for the update.

Radiance3

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One of the problems with the Sola Scriptura is the various interpretations of your Sola Fide.
Christ required to have one UNIFIED interpretation of His teachings to avoid misleading information.

Now your Sola Scriptura has various interpretations by your several denominations.